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  1. #1081
    High Overlord Onizuka's Avatar
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    Nothing he does or say interests me IN THE SLIGHTEST.

    He has nothing to do with actual game entertainment or information regarding it, in general...

    All he does nowadays is just trolling around and in the in between of trolling and gaming, he posts videos of him, trolling on what others think or say (either about him or the game itself).

    Having said that, people enjoy / dislike games according to their own pace.
    Someone with 2 hours game time per day, enjoy WoW differently than someone with 8,12,16 hours per day.

    Take this with a pinch of salt and move on with your life. You surely have better things to do...
    Reckoning Bomb - Unleashes the Reckoning upon the Scourge, inflicting ridiculous amounts of damage. Some might even say the damage is ludicrous.

  2. #1082
    If you think about it, what is the "meaning" of content? What do we search for when we talk about "content"?

    From an artistic perspective, WoW: BfA is spot on. Nice landscapes, good looking animations, etc.
    What we miss is a proper REWARD structure. And this isn't something that takes months (or even weeks) to get it right.

    This is, this IS the spreadsheet thing devs are doing, and their managers telling them how-to.

    Interestingly, people DO love things they can slowly work towards. Do we have ANYTHING like that in BfA? No! They even nerfed gold rewards so those players are out of the picture, too.

    Getting the BEST gear is all RNG, but not "only" RNG, it is timegated too (the weekly M+ chest). If you want powerful items, you have to pray for Titanforging and farm-farm-farm M+.
    Why not have a farmable currency that buys you a SOCKET for an item?
    Why not have some weekly capped valor to get a warforge on an item?
    Why not have an upgrade to your Azerite items item level with sanguicell or expulsom or some craftable shit with extremely rare BUT FARMABLE materials?
    Why not make ALL raid bosses on all difficulties, rare WQ mobs, M0 endbosse, M+ chests, etc (just like in Legion) drop Azerite armor that is equivalent to the max level mythic-raid version, BUT with randomized traits, so we farm everything just like in Legion (hey, Blizz, this is an RNG I can stand behind)?

    Why do they had to implement things that just SMELLS of "you have to keep subbed for this, ahaha"?

    Oh and MOST importantly:
    I am not 2 year old anymore. I don't need (or want!) for Blizzard to hold my hand.
    I want complex specs that are fun to play. Go and implement talents for casuals, or whoever Blizz thinks their playerbase is, to simplify their gameplay to be just like now. But please, Blizz knows that many many types of player play their games, why not cater to the hardcore folks, too?

  3. #1083
    High Overlord
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    Step 1: log in
    Step 2: Jump in Boralus
    Step 3: get bored
    Step 4: go the the forums to show my frustration

    FFS Blizzad, I want to play wow but there´s nothing to do

  4. #1084
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightstalker View Post
    Please explain the differences and not just in a vague way. Just dropping references and buzzwords won't help you.
    That's an awful way to communicate - as if I have to justify anything for you.

    They feel generic because they are. The affixes make them so. They are always the same ("Oh, but they change every week" - yes, they change between the same pool of affixes). Complexity with M+ comes with the affixes. The instances are also extremely linear - made for timed runs, because that's what they are.

    Let's compare to what we had in especially TBC and WotLK. Instances like Black Morass, all the 5 mans in Hellfire Citadel (including the timed run in Shattered Halls, which was brilliant), Magister's Terrace, the amazing 3 5 man ICC instances, ending up with LK pursuing you. These 5 mans were fucking BRILLIANT! They had story, they had Heroic modes which made them more difficult, they had intelligent boss fights. And you didn't have to think about how much trash you could avoid - there wasn't a count on trash anyway!

    I won't go into the amazing 5 man instances in Vanilla - Blizzard will never ever make stuff like the original Dire Maul Tribute run or the fantastic city of Blackrock Depths (which was so incredible that they decided to include it in the Dark Iron race).

    The problem, as I see it, is that when Blizzard decides to up the competitive side of certain parts of WoW, they also have to flatten or streamline the same part to make it more accessible and convenient to play. Take Arena. 3v3 being the competitive bracket means that most of WoW PvP is now balanced around 3v3. Is that fun? I don't think so. I like Battlegrounds a LOT more. But the main balancing and development is around 3v3 and so BGs don't get much love - and my preferred spec gets balanced around 3v3.

    5 man instances used to be my preferred PvE gameplay. It used to be a format which was influenced by the great fantasy books and stories. In WoW, that meant a lot of story tied to the overarching story of the game, architecture, enemies, heroes etc. And you used to be able to do all sorts of fun stuff with your class, some of it fairly unique and fun.

    Ever seen the movie "Lord of the Rings - Fellowship of the Ring"? When they cross into Moria. THAT is THE template of a classic dungeon crawl.

    Now, it's on a timer. It's a dungeon run (used to be called a dungeon crawl, btw). The mobs should be gathered in big groups and AoE'd down (no use for CC here). Most story elements are just cut out (takes too much time anyway). All of the small and nice touches that integrated 5 man instances in my MMORPG WoW experience are gone when we look at 5 man instances. It is no longer a story unfolding, with me in a leading role.

    Instead, it's a sprint. I might get loot at the end. But it just feels meaningless.

    PS: Now, you can wipe and it incurs a small time penalty. In TBC, you could wipe for hours and there wasn't any hand-holding. Not good enough to kill the boss or some hard trash? Too bad, maybe you should just leave until you had better gear. I loved how the game was more brutal back then.
    Last edited by Whitepaw; 2018-12-07 at 02:55 PM.

  5. #1085
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Getting views is just combination if luck and pandering.

    Many deserving creators don't have fraction the follows they should have, and then there is some people who pandered to right fad at the right time and were lucky enough that someone saw them.
    So, those things are easy, right? That's what you said, so go for it. Otherwise you're free to retract your statements about it.

  6. #1086
    Legendary! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlae View Post
    So, those things are easy, right? That's what you said, so go for it. Otherwise you're free to retract your statements about it.
    Sadly, I don't have the luck.

  7. #1087
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitepaw View Post
    That's an awful way to communicate - as if I have to justify anything for you.

    They feel generic because they are. The affixes make them so. They are always the same ("Oh, but they change every week" - yes, they change between the same pool of affixes). Complexity with M+ comes with the affixes. The instances are also extremely linear - made for timed runs, because that's what they are.

    Let's compare to what we had in especially TBC and WotLK. Instances like Black Morass, all the 5 mans in Hellfire Citadel (including the timed run in Shattered Halls, which was brilliant), Magister's Terrace, the amazing 3 5 man ICC instances, ending up with LK pursuing you. These 5 mans were fucking BRILLIANT! They had story, they had Heroic modes which made them more difficult, they had intelligent boss fights. And you didn't have to think about how much trash you could avoid - there wasn't a count on trash anyway!

    I won't go into the amazing 5 man instances in Vanilla - Blizzard will never ever make stuff like the original Dire Maul Tribute run or the fantastic city of Blackrock Depths (which was so incredible that they decided to include it in the Dark Iron race).

    The problem, as I see it, is that when Blizzard decides to up the competitive side of certain parts of WoW, they also have to flatten or streamline the same part to make it more accessible and convenient to play. Take Arena. 3v3 being the competitive bracket means that most of WoW PvP is now balanced around 3v3. Is that fun? I don't think so. I like Battlegrounds a LOT more. But the main balancing and development is around 3v3 and so BGs don't get much love - and my preferred spec gets balanced around 3v3.

    5 man instances used to be my preferred PvE gameplay. It used to be a format which was influenced by the great fantasy books and stories. In WoW, that meant a lot of story tied to the overarching story of the game, architecture, enemies, heroes etc. And you used to be able to do all sorts of fun stuff with your class, some of it fairly unique and fun.

    Ever seen the movie "Lord of the Rings - Fellowship of the Ring"? When they cross into Moria. THAT is THE template of a classic dungeon crawl.

    Now, it's on a timer. It's a dungeon run (used to be called a dungeon crawl, btw). The mobs should be gathered in big groups and AoE'd down (no use for CC here). Most story elements are just cut out (takes too much time anyway). All of the small and nice touches that integrated 5 man instances in my MMORPG WoW experience are gone when we look at 5 man instances. It is no longer a story unfolding, with me in a leading role.

    Instead, it's a sprint. I might get loot at the end. But it just feels meaningless.

    PS: Now, you can wipe and it incurs a small time penalty. In TBC, you could wipe for hours and there wasn't any hand-holding. Not good enough to kill the boss or some hard trash? Too bad, maybe you should just leave until you had better gear. I loved how the game was more brutal back then.
    1. We had tube dungeons all the way back since TBC.
    2. Wrath was the birth of speedrun 5mans.
    3. 3v3 has been the focus of PvP balancing since early TBC.
    4. We have had instances with multiple routes over and over again in every xpac. The best joke in that regard is Karazhan being hailed as a great dungeon when it is 70% tube design.
    5. BFA has Freehold, Atal'Dazar & Waycrest Manor if you want optional paths.
    6. BFA m+ is brutal at higher keys, maybe try that for a change.
    7. stacking + AoE no longer works in BFA since you have less mass CC and more mobs that are immune in general. Maybe get up to date with your info and forget about Legion cheeze strats.
    8. The days of Vanilla dungeon design are over, it ended almost 12 years ago.

  8. #1088
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightstalker View Post
    1. We had tube dungeons all the way back since TBC.
    2. Wrath was the birth of speedrun 5mans.
    3. 3v3 has been the focus of PvP balancing since early TBC.
    4. We have had instances with multiple routes over and over again in every xpac. The best joke in that regard is Karazhan being hailed as a great dungeon when it is 70% tube design.
    5. BFA has Freehold, Atal'Dazar & Waycrest Manor if you want optional paths.
    6. BFA m+ is brutal at higher keys, maybe try that for a change.
    7. stacking + AoE no longer works in BFA since you have less mass CC and more mobs that are immune in general. Maybe get up to date with your info and forget about Legion cheeze strats.
    8. The days of Vanilla dungeon design are over, it ended almost 12 years ago.
    You forgot to highlight this hypocritical bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitepaw View Post
    5 mans in Hellfire Citadel (including the timed run in Shattered Halls, which was brilliant)
    Black Morass was also hated, it was an awful dungeon. It's also on a timer.

    I believe the majority of BFA 5 mans also have a story (I don't really pay attention to it, never have, they've always sucked at telling the story in game). They also have unique options for classes, for example Rogues can get shortcuts, Mages can spellsteal. What unique things are missing what we used to do in dungeons? I can think of Hunters kiting isn't a thing anymore really.

    All of the LK 5 man heroics were faceroll. TBC 5 man heroics were nerfed fairly fast, and looking back weren't even that hard, they were just harder than the easy mode dungeons we were used to in vanilla. M+ is far more challenging. But I do agree with him that I prefer a dungeon to be a crawl than a speed run. It should be an adventure. When you get to a high key, there is a good chance you will be in there for a long time.

    Introduction of Arena's in TBC ruined balance for me (they were never balanced anyway), my WF totem

    Vanilla style of dungeons were my favourite, I would like them to return, but far harder.

    I'm hoping Pantheon is good when it is released.
    Last edited by Tekkommo; 2018-12-07 at 05:23 PM.

  9. #1089
    @Nightstalker

    Yeah, let's dive neck-deep in semantics - let's do that. And while we do, let's avoid talking about my main points.

    Story - and story elements - matter to me and a lot of others. Ambience matters as well. All those little things that add atmosphere - they matter.

    A linear instance (like most in BfA) is an instance that is not only on a map that is very linear, but also with other linear design elements. Like the trash layout, spacing between bosses and other gameplay features (or lack thereof, like now in BfA). So, when you write "tube dungeons" - well, that's on you.

    You seem to think that when I say that I dislike all M+ to be on a timer, that I then dislike every 5 man content where a timer is involved. But that's a stupid correlation. I liked the few speedruns there were before M+ (and btw, the first speedruns were in Vanilla). But I dislike that all M+ are on a timer. It creates stress and it's tied to the gear rewards. I dislike that - and you don't have to do any hyberbole on that. I dislike that - period.

    Yes, I know that PvP has been balanced around Arena since TBC - that's what I am against! I dislike that fact. I would much prefer that WoW PvP was way more diverse and varied. Instead, it's about healers being very strong, it's about pillars, it's about management of cooldowns. So, when I'm in a Battleground as a melee, I meet extremely strong healers and ranged dps - only here, I haven't got the design of a normal Arena and Dampening to even out this crap. If we hadn't been balanced around 3v3, this balance would have been different, and Battlegrounds would have been more fun.

    I know that BfA M+ is brutal at higher keys - but I never said that the 5 man instances in BfA are too easy. I said they are generic. I'll also say that they are boring - because they are. Can they be boring and hard at the same time? Yes - yes they can. And they are, also at higher keys.

    About AoE: O'rly? I've just witnessed the MDI at Blizzcon. One big AoE fest. If we pulled packs of 3-4 and single target killed them, then you would be right. But no. It's larger pulls, with full AoE train.

    What I liked in TBC was that the group had to CC - as in polymorph/sap/trap - several targets and then pull 2-3 mobs. Then the group had to kill these targets, sometimes in a certain order, while the tank kept aggro on all the mobs in combat and had an eye on the mobs CC'd. If this failed, you had to do stuff to save your life, because typically, the loose mob would kill the healer. And some of the trash mobs could one-shot the tank - that was also fun.

    What we do now is basically Diablo gameplay in World of Warcraft. And it's a gigantic dumbing-down of gameplay.

  10. #1090
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    No no no, its completely dead. Server identity is totally dead now. One of the WORST things is to have a third party website track this stuff. It should all be tracked in-game. All of it in-game. Absolute must. It was in a way tracked in-game in vanilla and BC because people would chat about it on global. All of the rankings of server kills should be moved into the in-game calendar or something. I've said this for years...
    3 things.

    1) millenials love their convenience.

    2) theres money to be made and they dont give two shites what the cost is (websites you speak of)

    3) wow began losing its community well before things began being tracked outside of game. Due in no small part to 1.

  11. #1091
    asmongold is a victim of his own doing, he complains about casuals wanting no work in game and everything fast...yet that is how he wants it when it comes to things he farms

    - gets mad about Legion emissary cache mounts
    - happy BFA has no emissary cache mounts
    - fast carries for mounts (recent videos)
    - gets traded mounts (recent sharkbait mount)
    - raids pre-cleared to boss mount drop
    - gets mad after cycling XX number of players and not getting drops

    some may say its needed due to the his stream content, keep in mind he only played 30 days of Van WOW, and he is currently on the "loot trading" bandwagon citing ML error samples, when in reality, loot trading will allow him to landslide to the front with other streamers and youtubers wanting the same thing fast, to keep their status like in the warrior department guaranteed and ahead of all others

    he recently tried twinking at level 39, something mcconnell does in various brackets. he also recently cited when mcconnell asked about twinks during asmondgold's what to do next crisis video. asmongold said twinking is dead, people build them and don't play them.

    twinking is not dead, the problem with twinking it does not fit into streaming well, the 39 bracket he was in, is alive and well, but asmongold stream will not handle a 6-15 minute que time void. the only way to fill the void is dueling, which one was streamed between him and mcconnell, after losing a few times, he was upset that there was no way he could beat a warrior at that level 1 vs 1 with the arcane mage. WOW is not balanced at any level 1 vs 1, even at 120. roll a 120 FDK vs a arms or fury war and see if you even had a chance,
    Last edited by pinkz; 2018-12-07 at 08:07 PM.

  12. #1092
    The biggest flaw with BFA is the class design and how they made classes less fun to play. Like the GCD changes and the other small class changes that makes it slightly less enjoyable to play your class. It becomes a chain reaction. I loved playing my character in Legion and as a result of that (and also the legendary system) I wanted to play on it a lot, and i enjoyed playing on it a lot, even doing content that wasn't very rewarding on a gear-level. But now that it feels slightly less fun to play, I feel slightly less excited about doing those extra m+ or those extra islands, or even the occasional LFR/normal on my main, which again would have been pointless from a gear-level standpoint, but when you like playing your class all of that becomes more fun.

    There's plenty of things to do in the game technically. I think people saying "oh I log on and stand in Boralus with nothing to do, this xpac is the worst" are forgetting some of the old times because I remember large portions of WotLK, Cata and WoD (but with Dalaran, SW/Org, Garrison) being kinda the same, running around waiting for a queue or not knowing what to do. I think content wise BFA tops those expansions as there are things to do, it's just that the gameplay elements like how the classes feel and play, as well as the azerite gear feels more lackluster than previous expansions, and as a result anything you do feels less exciting.

  13. #1093
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    That's true, Legion did have a nice flow of content.

    It would be nice to have a mini raid and some new dungeons to have between 8.0 and 8.1.

    I'd still be a raid logger at this point though.
    It would not help at all. Problem are systems not amounth of content.

  14. #1094
    Deleted
    Indeed it's the systems, azerite and class design are horrific failures. No words really.

  15. #1095
    Deleted
    Well, there is one thing:

    Waiting for classic servers =)

  16. #1096
    Deleted
    Class Design is so bad that no matter how great the content, the game would still feel awkward to play

  17. #1097
    Can't wait to go back to the state of the game 14 years ago because it's better than what we have now.

  18. #1098
    Herald of the Titans Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Yep. The problem isn't that there is "nothing to do" - technically there is, and with 8.1 coming in a couple of days, there will be even more. But your character plays like crap, since Azerite is lame af, GCD everywhere makes you feel like you're playing with >1k latency, and in most cases your spec plays strictly worse than in Legion. This kind of crappy gameplay is incredibly off-putting for me
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazinger-Z View Post
    Class design [in BfA] is the rickety bridge upon which it all lays, but the rest of it are the arthritic elephants with irritable bowel syndrome trying to cross it.

  19. #1099
    WoW has become so mindless that it may as well be a mobile game at this point.

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