1. We had tube dungeons all the way back since TBC.
2. Wrath was the birth of speedrun 5mans.
3. 3v3 has been the focus of PvP balancing since early TBC.
4. We have had instances with multiple routes over and over again in every xpac. The best joke in that regard is Karazhan being hailed as a great dungeon when it is 70% tube design.
5. BFA has Freehold, Atal'Dazar & Waycrest Manor if you want optional paths.
6. BFA m+ is brutal at higher keys, maybe try that for a change.
7. stacking + AoE no longer works in BFA since you have less mass CC and more mobs that are immune in general. Maybe get up to date with your info and forget about Legion cheeze strats.
8. The days of Vanilla dungeon design are over, it ended almost 12 years ago.
Soloing Wotlk/Cataclysm/MoP/WoD
http://www.youtube.com/user/thststth/videos
http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...alker/advanced
http://de.twitch.tv/nightst314 >>Stream<<
You forgot to highlight this hypocritical bit.
Black Morass was also hated, it was an awful dungeon. It's also on a timer.
I believe the majority of BFA 5 mans also have a story (I don't really pay attention to it, never have, they've always sucked at telling the story in game). They also have unique options for classes, for example Rogues can get shortcuts, Mages can spellsteal. What unique things are missing what we used to do in dungeons? I can think of Hunters kiting isn't a thing anymore really.
All of the LK 5 man heroics were faceroll. TBC 5 man heroics were nerfed fairly fast, and looking back weren't even that hard, they were just harder than the easy mode dungeons we were used to in vanilla. M+ is far more challenging. But I do agree with him that I prefer a dungeon to be a crawl than a speed run. It should be an adventure. When you get to a high key, there is a good chance you will be in there for a long time.
Introduction of Arena's in TBC ruined balance for me (they were never balanced anyway), my WF totem
Vanilla style of dungeons were my favourite, I would like them to return, but far harder.
I'm hoping Pantheon is good when it is released.
Last edited by Tekkommo; 2018-12-07 at 05:23 PM.
@Nightstalker
Yeah, let's dive neck-deep in semantics - let's do that. And while we do, let's avoid talking about my main points.
Story - and story elements - matter to me and a lot of others. Ambience matters as well. All those little things that add atmosphere - they matter.
A linear instance (like most in BfA) is an instance that is not only on a map that is very linear, but also with other linear design elements. Like the trash layout, spacing between bosses and other gameplay features (or lack thereof, like now in BfA). So, when you write "tube dungeons" - well, that's on you.
You seem to think that when I say that I dislike all M+ to be on a timer, that I then dislike every 5 man content where a timer is involved. But that's a stupid correlation. I liked the few speedruns there were before M+ (and btw, the first speedruns were in Vanilla). But I dislike that all M+ are on a timer. It creates stress and it's tied to the gear rewards. I dislike that - and you don't have to do any hyberbole on that. I dislike that - period.
Yes, I know that PvP has been balanced around Arena since TBC - that's what I am against! I dislike that fact. I would much prefer that WoW PvP was way more diverse and varied. Instead, it's about healers being very strong, it's about pillars, it's about management of cooldowns. So, when I'm in a Battleground as a melee, I meet extremely strong healers and ranged dps - only here, I haven't got the design of a normal Arena and Dampening to even out this crap. If we hadn't been balanced around 3v3, this balance would have been different, and Battlegrounds would have been more fun.
I know that BfA M+ is brutal at higher keys - but I never said that the 5 man instances in BfA are too easy. I said they are generic. I'll also say that they are boring - because they are. Can they be boring and hard at the same time? Yes - yes they can. And they are, also at higher keys.
About AoE: O'rly? I've just witnessed the MDI at Blizzcon. One big AoE fest. If we pulled packs of 3-4 and single target killed them, then you would be right. But no. It's larger pulls, with full AoE train.
What I liked in TBC was that the group had to CC - as in polymorph/sap/trap - several targets and then pull 2-3 mobs. Then the group had to kill these targets, sometimes in a certain order, while the tank kept aggro on all the mobs in combat and had an eye on the mobs CC'd. If this failed, you had to do stuff to save your life, because typically, the loose mob would kill the healer. And some of the trash mobs could one-shot the tank - that was also fun.
What we do now is basically Diablo gameplay in World of Warcraft. And it's a gigantic dumbing-down of gameplay.
asmongold is a victim of his own doing, he complains about casuals wanting no work in game and everything fast...yet that is how he wants it when it comes to things he farms
- gets mad about Legion emissary cache mounts
- happy BFA has no emissary cache mounts
- fast carries for mounts (recent videos)
- gets traded mounts (recent sharkbait mount)
- raids pre-cleared to boss mount drop
- gets mad after cycling XX number of players and not getting drops
some may say its needed due to the his stream content, keep in mind he only played 30 days of Van WOW, and he is currently on the "loot trading" bandwagon citing ML error samples, when in reality, loot trading will allow him to landslide to the front with other streamers and youtubers wanting the same thing fast, to keep their status like in the warrior department guaranteed and ahead of all others
he recently tried twinking at level 39, something mcconnell does in various brackets. he also recently cited when mcconnell asked about twinks during asmondgold's what to do next crisis video. asmongold said twinking is dead, people build them and don't play them.
twinking is not dead, the problem with twinking it does not fit into streaming well, the 39 bracket he was in, is alive and well, but asmongold stream will not handle a 6-15 minute que time void. the only way to fill the void is dueling, which one was streamed between him and mcconnell, after losing a few times, he was upset that there was no way he could beat a warrior at that level 1 vs 1 with the arcane mage. WOW is not balanced at any level 1 vs 1, even at 120. roll a 120 FDK vs a arms or fury war and see if you even had a chance,
Last edited by pinkz; 2018-12-07 at 08:07 PM.
The biggest flaw with BFA is the class design and how they made classes less fun to play. Like the GCD changes and the other small class changes that makes it slightly less enjoyable to play your class. It becomes a chain reaction. I loved playing my character in Legion and as a result of that (and also the legendary system) I wanted to play on it a lot, and i enjoyed playing on it a lot, even doing content that wasn't very rewarding on a gear-level. But now that it feels slightly less fun to play, I feel slightly less excited about doing those extra m+ or those extra islands, or even the occasional LFR/normal on my main, which again would have been pointless from a gear-level standpoint, but when you like playing your class all of that becomes more fun.
There's plenty of things to do in the game technically. I think people saying "oh I log on and stand in Boralus with nothing to do, this xpac is the worst" are forgetting some of the old times because I remember large portions of WotLK, Cata and WoD (but with Dalaran, SW/Org, Garrison) being kinda the same, running around waiting for a queue or not knowing what to do. I think content wise BFA tops those expansions as there are things to do, it's just that the gameplay elements like how the classes feel and play, as well as the azerite gear feels more lackluster than previous expansions, and as a result anything you do feels less exciting.
Indeed it's the systems, azerite and class design are horrific failures. No words really.
Well, there is one thing:
Waiting for classic servers =)
Class Design is so bad that no matter how great the content, the game would still feel awkward to play
Can't wait to go back to the state of the game 14 years ago because it's better than what we have now.
Yep. The problem isn't that there is "nothing to do" - technically there is, and with 8.1 coming in a couple of days, there will be even more. But your character plays like crap, since Azerite is lame af, GCD everywhere makes you feel like you're playing with >1k latency, and in most cases your spec plays strictly worse than in Legion. This kind of crappy gameplay is incredibly off-putting for me
WoW has become so mindless that it may as well be a mobile game at this point.