DH Ranged

[Deleted]

No idea how these graphs are generated, here you one where DH's are 2nd best Melee, behind Assa, in 3v3 +2,2k

https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pvp...v3/2200-rating

Also, DH's are basically mandatory in RBG, because stealth scouting, being immortal in teamfights, being able to switch to any position without issue and so forth.

hm look at your stats ?

assa 9,7%
DH 5,2%
Enhance 4,8%
Warrior 4,1%

And between Assa and DH 3 Range dds have their spot.

So again why DH is the op class if rogue is nearly double than DH and DH is only 0,4% more than enhance ?

Darkness is pvp talent
Manarift and Mana burn both get nerfed. But yes your right this mechanic should gone.
So give DH a MS effect like nearly every melee class has out of Hybrid or wait monk is hybrid and has ms ....

And again im not a big fan from BFA DH playstyle legion was more my thing. So i reroll back to warrior.
And sry i dont have problems to kill DH 2,1k + with Furry and Arms.

Blur is only a def cd like nearly every other melee has.
Netherwalk is a talent and you can do nothing while it is up no damage no heal. Its like iceblock but its again a talent, and you loose your main Arena talent and your only heal if you spec it.

Chaos nova and imprison is both dispell able. Palas have slow and stun baseline both dispell able but baseline so why DH abilites also dispell able is op ?

The only DH comb that was in the finals was Boomi DH Heal shaman. No Other comb works so perfect. because of root beam and mana burn you win.
So if mana burn gets nerfed ( for me they can remove this talent and give us something cool from legion back. Fel barrage, chaosblades, bloodlet, artifact weapon ability), why root beam dont gets nerfed ?


https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pvp...v2/2200-rating

so look at 2vs2 also
Fury and Hunter are both higher than DH should they also get nerfed ? No why ?
Hm wait because DH with moonkin is to strong, without Mooni he drops hard ranking.


oh Wait BGs the stupids thing they bring since MOP

https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pvp...bg/2200-rating

DH a tiny bit higher than rogue 0,6% in full cleave shit rbgs vs 5,5% in 3vs 3 bracket rogue dominate. And again Mooni is 5,2% higher than DH but DH is the op class i know....

So DH is in your stats nearly always 5% behind the top dd and only 1 to 0,4% higher than the rest but he is op like shit ???

And again wait after nerfs 8.1 Manaburn and rift 50 fury.
Dk gets a huge buff, WW gets a huge buff.

[Kralljin]

So again why DH is the op class if rogue is nearly double than DH and DH is only 0,4% more than enhance ?

First off, the debate is not about rogues.

Second, Enhancement received hefty nerfs and more are incoming in 8.1, the removal of Static Cling hurts their damage, alongside the combination of Ride the Lightning and Forked Lightning further nerfs them, as now you only can have one of those effects, not both.

Also, Enhance aren't good in RBG, whereas DH's shine like a thousand lights there.

So give DH a MS effect like nearly every melee class has out of Hybrid or wait monk is hybrid and has ms ....

The only with MS are:
Arms Warrior
Hunter
WW Monk

Assa rogues lose their MS effect in 8.1, only those three classes / specs have an MS effect.

Blur is only a def cd like nearly every other melee has.

Except the regular Shieldwall ability doesn't have 1 min CD.
And doesn't add 50% dodge on top of that.

Netherwalk is a talent and you can do nothing while it is up no damage no heal. Its like iceblock but its again a talent, and you loose your main Arena talent and your only heal if you spec it.

Yeah the talent is totally terrible...better pick Soulrending, right?

Netherwalk is bonkers, even trying to argue that this talent is somehow "bad" is just ridicioulus.
The only reason why you don't pick it is because DH has, thanks to Darkness and Blur, already enough defensive CD's to survive.
Or no one bothers to focus them anyway, especially as caster team because they take 10% less damage baseline.

Chaos nova and imprison is both dispell able. Palas have slow and stun baseline both dispell able but baseline so why DH abilites also dispell able is op ?

Not like you could use those abilities on the healer...Imprison has more than enough range, Chaos Nova is not the biggest problem because you are damn mobile.

And if that fails, you still get Fel eruption, 4 second stun on 20yards range which is instant and not dispellable.

Also, doesn't your Mastery increase your baseline Movementspeed? Just curious.

So DH is in your stats nearly always 5% behind the top dd and only 1 to 0,4% higher than the rest but he is op like shit ???

Your argument boils down to "But the other one is worse!".

Yeah, rogues are OP, welcome to literally any expansion (which includes Vanilla) in WoW regarding PvP.

You know that.
I know that.
Everyone who has ever set a foot into a BG or Arena knows that.

Doesn't justify DH in the slightest, as this topic in particular evolves around DH's, not Rogues or the state of PvP Balance in general.

so look at 2vs2 also
Fury and Hunter are both higher than DH should they also get nerfed ? No why ?
Hm wait because DH with moonkin is to strong, without Mooni he drops hard ranking.


oh Wait BGs the stupids thing they bring since MOP

If that statement is supposed to mock RBG's, then i can't help if you, because the sole reason you cite 2v2 is because it suits your narrative.

[lummiuster]

interupts shouldnt matter if you are able to fake cast

Jes people really gotta stop with this. When you are a caster facing 3 melees, even the best fake caster can't do anything. Beside even if it works, it is a poor design. If the developers thought that melees need interrupts to balance with casters then they should make it unmissable. If they believe it is too OP then they should make casters uninterruptible. If they want the fights to be more skill based then they should find something more fun than this stupid mechanic. "cast then press cancel" how the hell could someone think it is a fun idea.

[Appelgren]

because they want people to play atleast ONE new class.

Dks was super op for a long time, monk was supoer op for a long time... dh is super op and will be for a long time...

[Deleted]

Jes people really gotta stop with this. When you are a caster facing 3 melees, even the best fake caster can't do anything. Beside even if it works, it is a poor design. If the developers thought that melees need interrupts to balance with casters then they should make it unmissable. If they believe it is too OP then they should make casters uninterruptible. If they want the fights to be more skill based then they should find something more fun than this stupid mechanic. "cast then press cancel" how the hell could someone think it is a fun idea.

And what level have you played at in arena? your argument is subjective... you dont find that fun but when i play my healer at around 2300-2500 MMR and im able to fake cast 2/3 people i get a sense of enjoyment and happyness from knowing i am able to do that... like i said to someone else its playing around your CD's your teams CC your CC to know when you CAN and CAN'T cast... its not a matter of being able to cast when ever you feel like it without any punishment...

The fact still remains that if you are playing high end arena and think that range interupts or mele interupts are OP or a silly mechanic then you are just fooling yourself and cant play at that level... its take insight to know when people are going to interupt and its your job as a caster/healer to notice those moments.

Blizzard have given pretty much all healers strong instant casts and CD's to provide insane healing output and even become un-interuptable.

I dont want to come across rude but again i would love to know what level you play at and what class/spec and what arena teams because it sounds to me that you want freedom to cast whenever you want without punishment, if thats the case then you can go play PVE.

[enjoy123]

why i think DH is broken:
Good single target burst
Good cleave dmg
good sustained dmg
superb mobility
purge
range Cs that gives him resources
it has a dispell that reflects the spell
AOE stun
ST stun
ST Sap
Darkness...
Autoblur/blur
Immunity better than block(cause it can not be dispelled and the dh can still move while immune)
mana burn (at least its getting nerfed)
faster than any other class.
can spec in to flying that makes him ''immune'' to mele and can still do a decent amount of dmg during the flight.


Do people still need more reasons to understand that DH is possibly onf the most stupid classes to be designed?

[nToxik]

The only with MS are:
Arms Warrior
Hunter
WW Monk

Assa rogues lose their MS effect in 8.1, only those three classes / specs have an MS effect.

Umm...I haven't kept up to date on all the changes but doesn't Assy Rogue still have MS but only via Shiv in 8.1?

[Kralljin]

Umm...I haven't kept up to date on all the changes but doesn't Assy Rogue still have MS but only via Shiv in 8.1?

Yeah you're right.

However the removal of Deadly Brew is relevant as they need to spend energy on Shiv and a GCD, alongside that it's basically impossible to spread unless you run Wound poison (which is relevant for RBG).

Basically, they have to give up some damage in order to apply the MS debuff to a single target.

[lummiuster]

And what level have you played at in arena? your argument is subjective... you dont find that fun but when i play my healer at around 2300-2500 MMR and im able to fake cast 2/3 people i get a sense of enjoyment and happyness from knowing i am able to do that... like i said to someone else its playing around your CD's your teams CC your CC to know when you CAN and CAN'T cast... its not a matter of being able to cast when ever you feel like it without any punishment...

The fact still remains that if you are playing high end arena and think that range interupts or mele interupts are OP or a silly mechanic then you are just fooling yourself and cant play at that level... its take insight to know when people are going to interupt and its your job as a caster/healer to notice those moments.

Blizzard have given pretty much all healers strong instant casts and CD's to provide insane healing output and even become un-interuptable.

I dont want to come across rude but again i would love to know what level you play at and what class/spec and what arena teams because it sounds to me that you want freedom to cast whenever you want without punishment, if thats the case then you can go play PVE.

I used to (1 month ago) play 5 class in all brackets (2s, 3s, RBG) and be around 1700-2100 rating. I could easily reach high rating but I don't want because I can't stand waiting more than 2mins to find a team so I keep pugging. Beside high rated arena is very boring and I blizzard should not balance the game for high rating arena. By definition only a minority of players would enjoy it and also playing high rated means you should always play the spec you're the best at and the best talents. I love to jump in dangerous situation, like attacking a group of people in gurubashi arena on my ret/warrior/rogue and get involved in crazy combat. With a caster, you can't do shit, because as soon as 1 rogue or 3 melees are after you, there's nothing you can do. It would be nice for them to be able to deliver a nice combat even when outnumbered.
- A 380il ret/warrior fighitng 2-3 melees that are 320il can still beat them or die while putting a nice fight
- A 380il caster could get camped by 2-3 melees that are not even level 120... Not fun.

[Deleted]

I used to (1 month ago) play 5 class in all brackets (2s, 3s, RBG) and be around 1700-2100 rating. I could easily reach high rating but I don't want because I can't stand waiting more than 2mins to find a team so I keep pugging. Beside high rated arena is very boring and I blizzard should not balance the game for high rating arena. By definition only a minority of players would enjoy it and also playing high rated means you should always play the spec you're the best at and the best talents. I love to jump in dangerous situation, like attacking a group of people in gurubashi arena on my ret/warrior/rogue and get involved in crazy combat. With a caster, you can't do shit, because as soon as 1 rogue or 3 melees are after you, there's nothing you can do. It would be nice for them to be able to deliver a nice combat even when outnumbered.
- A 380il ret/warrior fighitng 2-3 melees that are 320il can still beat them or die while putting a nice fight
- A 380il caster could get camped by 2-3 melees that are not even level 120... Not fun.

Actually most PVP based games are balanced around the "high Rating" and i've heard that time and time again "i could easily get high rating" well the fact is you probably couldn't.. especially if you cant even fake cast or play a ranged class....

Your points are only subjective to yourself and other bad players... i wont go into my points again but please go back and read them carefully and i address most of the points you made here. about "delivering a nice combat even when outnumbered" what does that even mean? that if you are attacked by 2/3/4/5 people that you get a buff or something? it literally makes no sense what you are talking about.

In regards to A Ret/Warrior fighting 2-3 meles that are 320 ilevel compared to a caster again is just not true, also that would be balanced around W-PVP which is not a fair representation of the competative pvp scene. you are again useing your own bad experiance, and sorry to say bad play, to justify your opinion on the PVP scene.. which is fair enough thats your opinion but you cant go around saying "i could of easily got high rating" without anything solid to back it up.

[lummiuster]

Actually most PVP based games are balanced around the "high Rating" and i've heard that time and time again "i could easily get high rating" well the fact is you probably couldn't.. especially if you cant even fake cast or play a ranged class....

Your points are only subjective to yourself and other bad players... i wont go into my points again but please go back and read them carefully and i address most of the points you made here. about "delivering a nice combat even when outnumbered" what does that even mean? that if you are attacked by 2/3/4/5 people that you get a buff or something? it literally makes no sense what you are talking about.

In regards to A Ret/Warrior fighting 2-3 meles that are 320 ilevel compared to a caster again is just not true, also that would be balanced around W-PVP which is not a fair representation of the competative pvp scene. you are again useing your own bad experiance, and sorry to say bad play, to justify your opinion on the PVP scene.. which is fair enough thats your opinion but you cant go around saying "i could of easily got high rating" without anything solid to back it up.

I did get high rating years ago and in many other games like CS and league of... I don't want to anymore because it is not fun and that's why I think Blizzard should not balance things for arena. When you want high rating, you need to play serious, play the best spec, take time to find the right partner, a lot of raging and toxic people, you need voice, macros, addons... But it is really not as fun as simply playing the game freely. It is much more fun when you start doing what you want in a game and this is what will keep players from playing.

I don't have problems fake casting in arena, I said that I dislike not being able to do anything in WPVP like Gurubashi arena with 3 melees on me. Beside I don't know why you keep talking about arena, the point is that it is not interesting to play. The most fun I've had in wow was in partaking in serious WPVP scenarios in vanilla/TBC. It was totally unbalanced which was much better. Yes some class were superior to your class in all aspect but you would still fight to your best to conquer the zone. Then blizzard started balancing all the fuckin dps to make them equal in 3s and ruined the WPVP

[Deleted]

I did get high rating years ago and in many other games like CS and league of... I don't want to anymore because it is not fun and that's why I think Blizzard should not balance things for arena. When you want high rating, you need to play serious, play the best spec, take time to find the right partner, a lot of raging and toxic people, you need voice, macros, addons... But it is really not as fun as simply playing the game freely. It is much more fun when you start doing what you want in a game and this is what will keep players from playing.

I don't have problems fake casting in arena, I said that I dislike not being able to do anything in WPVP like Gurubashi arena with 3 melees on me. Beside I don't know why you keep talking about arena, the point is that it is not interesting to play. The most fun I've had in wow was in partaking in serious WPVP scenarios in vanilla/TBC. It was totally unbalanced which was much better. Yes some class were superior to your class in all aspect but you would still fight to your best to conquer the zone. Then blizzard started balancing all the fuckin dps to make them equal in 3s and ruined the WPVP

I think we will leave the conversation here you are again talking subjectively and its going in circles.

[Deleted]

I guess we most defo will leave it here "Banned" haha

[wladimir89]

Nad paladin have bubble and warrior charge,lets make all the classes the same?

[MrCool]

DH interrupt range has been reduced in BFA

[Bayramsekeri]

Best mobility melee class has ranged kick . warr ret low mobility classes melee kick why?

[Kagthul]

I guess we most defo will leave it here "Banned" haha

Getting banned doesn't make your argument invalid.

Hell, if 3-4 months go by and i dont catch a ban, i'm doing something wrong. The moderation around here is biased and shit.

Hes right.

Its shit design, through and through.

Its effectively another form of CC against a lot of casters. The fact that melee classes have ranged interrupts and stuns is fucking absurd.

The fact that i can go 30+ seconds being unable to cast - basically, 30 seconds of being unable to play my character while some mongoloid crapstain goes ham is garbage design.

Straight up.

I dont give a fuck WHAT rating you play at.

[Deleted]

Getting banned doesn't make your argument invalid.

Hell, if 3-4 months go by and i dont catch a ban, i'm doing something wrong. The moderation around here is biased and shit.

Hes right.

Its shit design, through and through.

Its effectively another form of CC against a lot of casters. The fact that melee classes have ranged interrupts and stuns is fucking absurd.

The fact that i can go 30+ seconds being unable to cast - basically, 30 seconds of being unable to play my character while some mongoloid crapstain goes ham is garbage design.

Straight up.

I dont give a fuck WHAT rating you play at.

Haha, again another post from someone who is clearly terrible at PVP complaining..... if you cant play at high rating or even average level (1800) then thats YOUR problem not the game itself...

if players can get past that bracket without moaning about ranged interupts but you cant... then your the problem and you need to fix your game play.

I never said someone getting banned made my argument VALID (not invalid).

I wont be responding any more to you as your are clearly just sour over your own poor play and game sense.

[Fleckens]

Getting banned doesn't make your argument invalid.

Hell, if 3-4 months go by and i dont catch a ban, i'm doing something wrong. The moderation around here is biased and shit.

Hes right.

Its shit design, through and through.

Its effectively another form of CC against a lot of casters. The fact that melee classes have ranged interrupts and stuns is fucking absurd.

The fact that i can go 30+ seconds being unable to cast - basically, 30 seconds of being unable to play my character while some mongoloid crapstain goes ham is garbage design.

Straight up.

I dont give a fuck WHAT rating you play at.

30+ seconds? Lets assume a perfect scenario, lets see what they can do. Interupt(3) stun(4), stun(2), sap(5) interupt(3). 17 seconds total, and that's them using their 30 sec(talent, won't have slow) and 60 sec stun as well as talented 1 min cooldown sap which they can't damage in to either.

Not too different from other classes, a warrior could do interupt(4) stun(4) fear(6) (interupt4) for 18 seconds.

And just for the fun of it, lets take rogue. Kick(5) stun(6) gouge(4) kick(5) blind(8) sap(8) kick(5) gouge(4) stun(6) kick(5) gouge(2) cheap shot(2) and this was probably far from an optimal way of doing it, but in reality things don't go like that and you aren't playing 1v1.

Now if you were arguing about just cc in general then perhaps we could have a discussion but whining about dh's and their barely ranged interupt(ask any dh and I'm pretty sure they would trade 4 yard extra range for 2 sec extra interupt like rogue, or even just 1 like most other melee range interupts.)