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  1. #181
    I recall in a blue post they explained it.
    ML allows for gear funnel and allocation, meaning gear wont be wasted. But the downside is people participating the raid do not feel directly rewarded, they are playing to gear for them and other players, following an artifical rule set my the leader. By using personal loot, there is little allocation within the raid, so less politics problems. Any player in the raid can get upgrade for their main/off spec easily just by playing the game, none will take the loot away if the person likes; no favourism at all. This has problem as well, as some items get wasted. The solution is simply boosting the drop rate to compensate.
    So the ML problem was solved by PL, and the PL problem was solved by increasing the drop rate. In other word, Blizzard has won

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Justpassing View Post
    They'll probably bring it back in an expansion or two and announce it as a revolutionary change.
    This. 100%

  3. #183
    Wow classic is coming for the elitiest guilds that want ml back.

  4. #184
    I still think it was a stupid change but I stopped caring because I got bored and quit raiding.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Keashaa View Post
    Another wrong assumption that this loot belongs to you. Foes are defeated as a group, not as an individual. If you want that loot is just for you, play solo or a single player game.
    Who put you in charge of dictating what's right or wrong? Blizz sure as hell didn't, because they're handling it the exact opposite way by enforcing PL. They say foes are defeated by a bunch of individuals that all deserve their chance at loot equally, not at the mercy of masterlooters. If you want that, play other MMO's.

  6. #186
    It's dead, Jim.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by fandrolin View Post
    Wow classic is coming for the elitiest guilds that want ml back.
    tbh cant wait . it will be so entertaining when all toxicity and gear extortion will be back with full swing with people ofc going "loot councils rules " and funneling gear only to the "core" 10 people while everyone else will be just warm bodies used to generate gear to buddies of GMs

    people have no idea how cancerous classic raiding will be because of this.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    tbh cant wait . it will be so entertaining when all toxicity and gear extortion will be back with full swing with people ofc going "loot councils rules " and funneling gear only to the "core" 10 people while everyone else will be just warm bodies used to generate gear to buddies of GMs

    people have no idea how cancerous classic raiding will be because of this.
    Nobody will raid in classic anyway so who cares.

  9. #189
    Deleted
    Ion Hazzicostas ladies and gentlemen:


    Still a hot topic throughout the raid community, and it will be disappointing to some raid groups, but Blizzard is happy with the way Personal Loot is working out so far. What they've seen in Uldir across entire groups is that the best geared guilds are still the ones doing the hardest content most efficiently. The benefits to removing personal loot are threefold:

    On the lower end of organization, a lot of guilds churn through a steady stream of trials; if you're looking for a guild in WoW, you may end up trialing a lot of places, and guilds with Master Loot tend to reserve that loot for members, which meant trials got nothing, causing those trials to stagnate; while this is a social dynamic for players to solve, in practice it's worse from a loot perspective than simply running pickup groups. For a raid officer or loot council, Master Loot is amazing because you get to decide exactly who gets everything, of course those people like Master Loot, and no other system would create that kind of control. For the majority of players, however, that came at the expense of a lot of reward that came from just playing the game.

    On the other end of the spectrum, the very high end, it's no surprise that top guilds will run multiple raid groups in parallel with 4 or 5+ alts to funnel gear to a handful of mains. This effectively quadrupled or quintupled the rate at which they could gear up the raid compared to a regular group that did not. Over time this lead to guilds outside of the top few world race competitors, up to world top 100 and beyond, to run at least some split raids for more loot. This made it very difficult for the developers to create and tune encounters which are both challenging to the world first guilds over the first week while still being a fun and satisfying experience for the Mythic raid guilds that followed. When going into a Legion raid, Methods item level would be higher than what typical guilds would have a month later. Normally the best guilds in the world would be doing it undergeared, but when they're overgeared it's tough. Not having that option as available in Uldir, the first few fights were able to be very stern challenges for those top guilds, but also allow hundreds of guilds to kill those bosses over time, without the need for massive nerfs or progression changes. This change majorly affects the top end guilds, but also trickles down - if your guild wants to try to get into the top 100 Hall of Fame, they don't need to feel forced into having all of their members create and raid with multiple alts in order to funnel gear, you can just focus on gearing up your main roster and maybe some backups. You should be playing on your mains to get loot on your mains.

    The third benefit is that it lets the team itemize in a different way. When master loot was an option, they still needed to design loot tables around the possibility of master loot, which meant niche items that may be useful to only a few people (ranged weapons, shields, 2-handed caster axes for Shamans) were rarely made because they had to assume that those items could drop regardless if those players were in the raid. In a world of personal loot, they can better cater to a wider range of itemization - more fist weapons, range weapons, shields, and more, because it doesn't matter if the item is only useful to one specialization out of 36, they know that item will only drop for that one specialization if it's present.

    Finally, recognizing that for tight knit social groups that weren't abusing Master Loot, it was nice to be able to freely share, trade, and allocate loot, so it's impossible to deny that something has been lost by removing Master Loot. For the majority of players, however, it's a step in the right direction, and once you get past the first few weeks of loot progression, trading to undergeared players or newly rolled alts is a lot easier. This breaks down a little bit where you don't want item level upgrades because they aren't actual upgrades, but that's a symptom of a larger problem that they're trying to fix - where possible item level should be a good guideline for whether or not something is an upgrade. It's an ongoing conversation, but frankly Personal Loot is here to stay, and the focus should be how it can be improved rather than rolling back to Master Loot, as the benefits have outweighed the downsides thus far.

  10. #190
    "Personal Loot is here to stay, so let's talk about how we can improve it rather than rolling it back to Master Loot."

    we can close this thread now

  11. #191
    Meh. I've lost interest in raiding anyway and quit, so I no longer care. I still feel PL feels bad and very unrewarding due to the randomness, but it no longer personally affects me.
    Last edited by rebecca191; 2018-12-14 at 09:09 PM.

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