Shuriken Combo removed on PTR.

[Synthium]

So it's not clear whether this is a bug or intended, but Shuriken Combo is no longer in the spellbook on 8.1. PTR which means that Sub will no longer get the bonus Eviscerate damage in AoE situations, only combo points.

If true, that means that instead of designing bosses differently, what they decided to do is the definition of a knee-jerk reaction and just plain remove the mechanic from the game. So now there will be no reason to bring Sub to Zek'voz or Zul-like bosses because they remove like 70% of what made the spec strong in that specific scenario.

[Varolyn]

Sub is just a wash in BFA. Bad in pvp and extremely niche and gimmicky in over. From my understanding, sub might have decent ST dps in 8.1 because the first dance trait is currently overtuned but that is gonna get nerfed. The spec is pretty much what survival was in HFC; dead and blizz will do nothing about because (hopefully) a rework is planned for the spec. I would argue that the spec should be built from the ground up because so much of the stuff that made it work in Legion is gone.

[MisterBigglez]

Sub is just a wash in BFA. Bad in pvp and extremely niche and gimmicky in over. From my understanding, sub might have decent ST dps in 8.1 because the first dance trait is currently overtuned but that is gonna get nerfed. The spec is pretty much what survival was in HFC; dead and blizz will do nothing about because (hopefully) a rework is planned for the spec. I would argue that the spec should be built from the ground up because so much of the stuff that made it work in Legion is gone.

I wouldn't be too hopeful about a rework. Poor shamans and spriests were promised significant changes but were just given spell buffs. I imagine the same will happen with sub. It will be a dead spec untl they do get reworked, so I guess sub is dead this expansion.

[Sylvaeres]

So it's not clear whether this is a bug or intended, but Shuriken Combo is no longer in the spellbook on 8.1. PTR which means that Sub will no longer get the bonus Eviscerate damage in AoE situations, only combo points.

If true, that means that instead of designing bosses differently, what they decided to do is the definition of a knee-jerk reaction and just plain remove the mechanic from the game. So now there will be no reason to bring Sub to Zek'voz or Zul-like bosses because they remove like 70% of what made the spec strong in that specific scenario.

OP cries because an OP ability is removed. There is absolutely no reason to allow this to stay in game, and the best part is, you're over here saying "Blizzard should change the design of bosses for one talent of one class". That is a moronic statement, and one of the prime examples of how stupid the playerbase can be nowadays.

Infracted.

[Djanco]

sub became boring and unfun when they took away dfa and replaced it with that trash secret technique anyway

[shaunika123]

OP cries because an OP ability is removed. There is absolutely no reason to allow this to stay in game, and the best part is, you're over here saying "Blizzard should change the design of bosses for one talent of one class". That is a moronic statement, and one of the prime examples of how stupid the playerbase can be nowadays.

well when blizzard says your class's entire point is one thing, it's their "niche", it's their main fantasy, and then they just randomly take it away.

is it a surprise we're upset?

there's also no compensations, which means the spec is literally dead.
so yeah.

but hey, sub was good on one boss, now it's gonna be good on none of them

imagine if all of a sudden they removed warrior execute in a .1 patch

or made it so affliction dots only affect one target at a time

[dirtyjokes]

let's wait and see what they come up with, eh? Maybe they will bring back Legion sub Kappa

[BananaHandsB]

Why would they design bosses around 1 spec? It's a broken ability on certain fights, boss design shouldn't be limited because of it. Good fix.

[shaunika123]

Why would they design bosses around 1 spec? It's a broken ability on certain fights, boss design shouldn't be limited because of it. Good fix.

yeah but when warlock portal was broken they adjusted the boss instead.

funny how that goes.

[MisterBigglez]

Why would they design bosses around 1 spec? It's a broken ability on certain fights, boss design shouldn't be limited because of it. Good fix.

The whole Zul problem wouldn't have been a problem if the crawgs were actually dangerous. Was it too hard to buff the damage they did and prevent them from being slowed?

[Synthium]

OP cries because an OP ability is removed. There is absolutely no reason to allow this to stay in game, and the best part is, you're over here saying "Blizzard should change the design of bosses for one talent of one class". That is a moronic statement, and one of the prime examples of how stupid the playerbase can be nowadays.

No, you're wrong. I'm not a Rogue player at all, I play DH. I'm not crying lol, I personally don't give a rats ass if it stays in the game or not, doesn't affect my class or my gameplay whatsoever. This was a thread about Blizzard's retarded way of dealing with spec's strength.

Also it's supposed to be the spec's strength. Sub was OP on what, 1 boss in Uldir? Other bosses you'd play another spec. How on earth was Shuriken Combo overpowered?

By that logic, Arms should be nerfed because it's insane on last phase Ghuun mythic and can solo gauntlet. Affliction should be nerfed because it can multidot adds on Fetid.

[precious]

Why would they design bosses around 1 spec? It's a broken ability on certain fights, boss design shouldn't be limited because of it. Good fix.

They didnt design the boss around one class or rogues in specific. 2 streamers already comfirmed weeks ago that the lead designer and in charge for the rogue class, who those streamers spoke on blizzcon didnt thought of it and it was shocked that the boss was going so fast. So its not boss design its just devs and internal testing players that have zero clue how classes work. And if they had the balls, when guilds on zul used a heap of certain classes to burn him down, they should just tell those guilds while on tries to stop doing it or give zul a 30% health increase so the cheese was useless.

You call bullshit? I remind u the exact same thing happened on thok back on siege when method decided to outheal thoks dmg on p1 and kill him there without entering p2 and they stopped them in the middle of the fight. Paragon had the same treatment during nefarian when they used 11 feral druids but paragon never stopped and blizzard never actually did anything to stop it as well. Ferals werent nerfed if i recall 1 or 2 months after that. And ppl still wonder after years why we never had balance among classes. At least the old team had the balls to admit their fuck ups like the said openly on ra den when everyone and their mother did the lock portal strategy. Well they could remove the portals by todays team logic.

Back on sub talents. They will probably make sectec baseline or a talent like crimson and will be working the same. No cd, spammable and based on cps. Just w8 and see.

Problem is if they dont rework sub, then it will never be good again cause sin scale, is off the charts the deeper we go into expansions

[RobertoCarlos]

whelp so there goes the only niche rogue had going for them for damage dealing. It is now safe to reroll to our range overlords.


They just love taking things away from rogue and giving nothing back.

[Varolyn]

whelp so there goes the only niche rogue had going for them for damage dealing. It is now safe to reroll to our range overlords.


They just love taking things away from rogue and giving nothing back.

Well assassination is still pretty strong, but it’s pretty much the only option for rogues at this point.

[Nurvus]

So it's not clear whether this is a bug or intended, but Shuriken Combo is no longer in the spellbook on 8.1. PTR which means that Sub will no longer get the bonus Eviscerate damage in AoE situations, only combo points.

If true, that means that instead of designing bosses differently, what they decided to do is the definition of a knee-jerk reaction and just plain remove the mechanic from the game. So now there will be no reason to bring Sub to Zek'voz or Zul-like bosses because they remove like 70% of what made the spec strong in that specific scenario.

And that is a good thing, because now they will have the responsibility to make Subtlety good overall instead of useful for 1 scenario.

[RobertoCarlos]

Well assassination is still pretty strong, but it’s pretty much the only option for rogues at this point.

Nice so thats 1 out 3 specs that I can play on my rogue and not feel like I'm playing a slow version of dota.

- - - Updated - - -

And that is a good thing, because now they will have the responsbility to make Subtlety good overall instead of useful for 1 scenario.

Um sure, if blizzard are even gonna do that. Took shamans and priests half an expansion to get any attention and some of their specs were borderline unplayable.

Where does this faith in blizzards class design team come from??? because nothing they have done recently shows us they are capable of doing a good job

[Sithalos]

You expect Blizzard to take the high road and actually fix their broken encounters? Lol

Where does this faith in blizzards class design team come from??? because nothing they have done recently shows us they are capable of doing a good job

This.

[Nurvus]

Um sure, if blizzard are even gonna do that. Took shamans and priests half an expansion to get any attention and some of their specs were borderline unplayable.

Where does this faith in blizzards class design team come from??? because nothing they have done recently shows us they are capable of doing a good job

They have their attention on Subtlety now so what's your point?

[Kralljin]

To be honest, that niche never made sense to me on Rogue, let alone Sub.

Rogues are really just the sneaky, assassin archetype, who excel at taking out single targets, not the one that seem to profit from a situation where you have to deal with multiple adds.
The niche fits more alongside something like Affliction or Unholy, who spread their shit all over the place and gain power based on that.

If it stays in Rogue, it should go to Assa, who spreads its poison all over enemies, strictly speaking from a class fantasy PoV.

when guilds on zul used a heap of certain classes to burn him down, they should just tell those guilds while on tries to stop doing it or give zul a 30% health increase so the cheese was useless.

I think that solely depends on how Blizzard works in terms of time shift.
No idea when Method and Co. started on Zul, but if that happened during the middle of the night for US West coast, devs had basically get up in the middle of the night and fix the problem, which is unlikely.

Ferals werent nerfed if i recall 1 or 2 months after that.

Rip was bugged, it interacted incorrectly with a buff on the nef fight.
Not sure if Feral got nerfed afterwards, though.

[RobertoCarlos]

They have their attention on Subtlety now so what's your point?

my point is their attention doesnt mean jack shit when they are incapable of fixing it.