1. #1
    Pandaren Monk Deleo's Avatar
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    Brewmaster Stagger Cap

    Ive been trying to find something on this for a while with no success. Does Stagger cap at 90%? and if it does shouldn't Guard and Blackout Combo talents become gradually better as we get closer to the cap?
    I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me.
    We are not monsters! We are not the mindless wretches of a ghoul army! NO! We are a force even more terrifying! We are the chill in a coward's spine! We are the instruments of an unyielding ire! WE ARE THE FORSAKEN!
    Those who do not stand with the Forsaken stand against them. And those who stand against the Forsaken will not stand long.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    there is no hardcap for stagger. if you tanked the likes of mythic fetid you know 90% is nothing.
    seen the likes of >~200% where i knew its ether instant purify or death

  3. #3
    Over 9000! Saverem's Avatar
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    It's pretty high, like 1000% or some crap. Basically, the cap is unreachable unless you have like 20 healers spam healing you or some shit. However, they fixed it so it can no longer stagger mechanics intended to one shot you.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

  4. #4
    There is a cap, but it's about x10 of your hp (or 1000%)

    Edit: Sorry, nevermind, I was talking about stagger damage cap, but I just re-read your post and apparently you're talking about stagger mitigation cap. We don't know if there is any, but we probably will never know as diminishing returns will stop us soon enough.

    But I REALLY doubt that BoC will be good enough if Blizzard don't re-design it.
    Last edited by ReD-EyeD; 2018-12-02 at 07:30 PM.

  5. #5
    Stagger used to 'cap' at just under 100, with the old stagger, High Tolerance, Fortifying Brew, (and I think a tier bonus) it was reachable, but you would always take at least one damage from hits-this way you wouldn't be invincible while fort was up, cheesing stagger at 1 hp (not that it stopped us).

    Stagger scales differently in BFA, it's based on your agility and isn't a flat value, so I'm not sure if 99.999...% is reachable in current content(doubt it if there are diminishing returns with the scaling), but as far as I know that cap works the same.

    As far as HT losing value in that case, I'll let the theorycrafters math it out.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    High Tolerance stays the must have choice, a single point of damage already gives a bonus haste (not done the math, its about 10% on my monk, but i guess its something like 10% + 110% of your haste before High Tolerance bonus)
    Neither guard nor combo have the same defensie and combo cant catch up on dps

  7. #7
    Blackout is already better in it's place, just fiddly to use vs an easy lazy passive that cant be screwed up. Being able to pause stagger damage lets you apply more of your mitigation to concentrated times vs taking more the rest of the time.

  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk Deleo's Avatar
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    I must have explained better. I didn't mean the amount you stagger during a fight. I know that doesn't have a cap. I meant the number you see on your character page as the percentage of incoming damage you stagger. I am currently at 88% with IB up and I notice when I pop FB it only goes up to 90%. If it actually caps at 90% then with couple of more gear pieces the 5% extra stagger from High Tolerance is pretty much wasted and the only thing I get out of it is the haste.

    Ive been trying Blackout Combo without caring what I actually use it on and it gives me 15% extra damage and a better uptime on IB. If I choose to go defensive with it the 3 second stagger pause can be huge as well. What I like about this talent is it gives you the option to go for the extra DPS or slightly better survivability. Obviously the high skill cap can be a problem for messy fights.
    Last edited by Deleo; 2018-12-04 at 08:50 AM.
    I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me.
    We are not monsters! We are not the mindless wretches of a ghoul army! NO! We are a force even more terrifying! We are the chill in a coward's spine! We are the instruments of an unyielding ire! WE ARE THE FORSAKEN!
    Those who do not stand with the Forsaken stand against them. And those who stand against the Forsaken will not stand long.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleo View Post
    I must have explained better. I didn't mean the amount you stagger during a fight. I know that doesn't have a cap. I meant the number you see on your character page as the percentage of incoming damage you stagger. I am currently at 88% with IB up and I notice when I pop FB it only goes up to 90%. If it actually caps at 90% then with couple of more gear pieces the 5% extra stagger from High Tolerance is pretty much wasted and the only thing I get out of it is the haste.

    Ive been trying Blackout Combo without caring what I actually use it on and it gives me 15% extra damage and a better uptime on IB. If I choose to go defensive with it the 3 second stagger pause can be huge as well. What I like about this talent is it gives you the option to go for the extra DPS or slightly better survivability. Obviously the high skill cap can be a problem for messy fights.
    The highest I have seen was 93,6%.
    Iirc 99% was cap, but this xpac has a scaling on ALL tank defensive abilities which will power them down the higher (and the higher tier) your enemies are.
    This prevents or at least slows down the pace you climb up to near immunity (eg for max blockvalue you would need a very high titanforged shield and a critical block as a warrior to reach that 85% cap - and the very same shield will suffer diminished value in the next raid so you again need a very high titanforged shield to get the same out of it)

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleo View Post

    Ive been trying Blackout Combo without caring what I actually use it on and it gives me 15% extra damage and a better uptime on IB. If I choose to go defensive with it the 3 second stagger pause can be huge as well. What I like about this talent is it gives you the option to go for the extra DPS or slightly better survivability. Obviously the high skill cap can be a problem for messy fights.
    The thing is that if you can sustain a good level of stagger throughout the fight (yellow-red stagger) High Tolerance is comparable to BoC in terms of damage and actually BETTER on purely red stagger while being superior defensive talent.

    There is just no place for BoC as it is after Tiger's Palm BoC damage nerf. And it was the only reason why people ran in the first place.

  11. #11
    The stagger cap is staggeringly high.



    And everyone nodded approvingly.

  12. #12
    I 'heard' somewhere that they are nerfing stagger, can someone confirm this?

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by kran1um View Post
    I 'heard' somewhere that they are nerfing stagger, can someone confirm this?
    can confirm!

    ba dumm tss.
    tho i question how much of a nerf that really is. its not like the unstaggered damage will now cause heart attacks for healers.
    id rather seem them passivly nerfing it by designing more raidbosses that are less simple "durr hurr i hit hard"

  14. #14
    we will overall take 6% more damage with the nerfs

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Julmara View Post
    we will overall take 6% more damage with the nerfs
    10% physical damage;

    right azerite traits, unnoticeable. now you have to have 2 sets instead of one for M+ and Raiding. You still take damage, you still kite, you still use RoP for trash...have to use healthstones more and healers heal a bit more. We are still #1 tank in raids and now #1 tank in M+.

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