2 Faction MMOs are an outdated concept

[Nomads]

Blizzard decided to go with a PvP expansion this time around, which is fine and all, but it highlights some of the fundamental issues with Blizzard's 14 year old game. Namely, their 2 faction system.

2 Factions will almost never be balanced. Especially when they have different races with different bonuses on each side. One side will invariably get the upper hand, and this will cause a snowball effect where people who actually want to enjoy the game mostly all switch to that faction.

WoW has been Horde dominated in PvP since Vanilla. This didn't matter as much because Alliance had a slight upper hand in PvE. But once BC hit and gave the Alliance's PvE bonus to the Horde, it had a landslide effect with the Horde population massively outweighing the Alliance. Horde has dominated both PvP and PvE ever since.

In a Faction War expansion, that basically means 1 side gets to dominate, and the other ends up opting out. Thus, less fun for both sides.

All the other PvP focused MMOs have realized this, and either gone with a no faction system (Guild Wars, FFXI) or gone with a 3 faction system (ESO, Camelot Unchained) to help balance this issue. 3 factions isn't perfect, but it does make it less likely one faction will completely dominate, and if they do, the other two factions can make truces to help balance this. Personally, I believe the no-faction system is the best. That way, all PvP is done between guilds and communities.

Blizzard needs to reassess what their game is supposed to be. If they want it to become a PvP centric game, they need to do something about their lopsided, 2-faction system.

[tibblaye]

you know there are mode alliance players then horde right? something like 50.9% to like 49.1%

[Nomads]

you know there are mode alliance players then horde right? something like 50.9% to like 49.1%

Are you actually saying Alliance outweighs the Horde in any sort of PvE or PvP ranking?

[clevin]

First reply is already a factually incorrect, blatant lie. New record for MMO Champ.


The skew is something like 56% Horde and 44% Alliance and it is tipping further towards the Horde with every expansion release.

He's right. You're wrong. http://warcraftrealms.com/census.php

Unless, of course, you have actual proof and a reason why we should accept it over the information in that link. Hint: Your internal fantasies are not proof.

[nyc81991]

you know there are mode alliance players then horde right? something like 50.9% to like 49.1%

Even if that's true, the vast majority of top players in both PvE and PvP are Horde and that's a fact.

[gaymer77]

Are you actually saying Alliance outweighs the Horde in any sort of PvE or PvP ranking?

Ranking is besides the point. The fact of the matter is Alliance has had higher numbers of players than Horde since vanilla and has ALWAYS had a higher amount of players. Until this whole WM thing happened, PvP servers were higher populated by Horde players and PvE servers were dominated by Alliance players. The fact that Alliance has pussied out when it comes to WM is not to be a surprise. Blizzard can't force people to PvP if they don't want to and the fact that there are so few Alliance players opting in to WM shows that they generally don't give a fuck about PvP'ing. Oh yeah and For Honor another 3 faction system says Hi (from the depths of the barren servers they have). Games with 3 faction systems don't do well. ESO is mostly a PvE game not a PvP game. Their PvP is completely optional and only allowed in certain areas (where you have to travel to in order to partake in it) or instanced. ESO also allows players to join ANY faction with ANY race if they buy a perk in their store or buy an expansion that allows it.

But let's humor you, how would you suggest WoW doing a 3 faction system after 14 years? Do they just add in a whole new faction with whole new races to the game for this third faction? If you are going to suggest certain factions leaving the Horde or Alliance, what would you do with players who like being in the Horde/Alliance but play one of those factions that you suggest would split off?

[Nomads]

Ranking is besides the point. The fact of the matter is Alliance has had higher numbers of players than Horde since vanilla and has ALWAYS had a higher amount of players. Until this whole WM thing happened, PvP servers were higher populated by Horde players and PvE servers were dominated by Alliance players. The fact that Alliance has pussied out when it comes to WM is not to be a surprise. Blizzard can't force people to PvP if they don't want to and the fact that there are so few Alliance players opting in to WM shows that they generally don't give a fuck about PvP'ing. Oh yeah and For Honor another 3 faction system says Hi (from the depths of the barren servers they have). Games with 3 faction systems don't do well. ESO is mostly a PvE game not a PvP game. Their PvP is completely optional and only allowed in certain areas (where you have to travel to in order to partake in it) or instanced. ESO also allows players to join ANY faction with ANY race if they buy a perk in their store or buy an expansion that allows it.

But let's humor you, how would you suggest WoW doing a 3 faction system after 14 years? Do they just add in a whole new faction with whole new races to the game for this third faction? If you are going to suggest certain factions leaving the Horde or Alliance, what would you do with players who like being in the Horde/Alliance but play one of those factions that you suggest would split off?

I actually suggested a no-faction system is the answer... but you would have needed to actually read before spouting your opinion to know that, and who even has time for that?!

For Honor isn't an MMO, smart guy...

[NtflxnChill]

I love how the fanboys will use warcraftrealms when it suits their argument.

But if I was to say that based on the data you just showed me that WoW is down to a million subs your fucking head would explode and you'd be screeching.

At least he has some data to show for, unlike your numbers that you pulled out of your ass.

[gaymer77]

First reply is already a factually incorrect, blatant lie. New record for MMO Champ.


The skew is something like 56% Horde and 44% Alliance and it is tipping further towards the Horde with every expansion release.

Even if you use how many characters are 120 as the basis for "population" the split is 49.16287601198555% Alliance & 50.83712398801445% Horde. warcraftrealms.com

If you want to do the 20-120 population it is split 51.09707735334074% Alliance & 48.90292264665926% Horde. warcraftrealms.com

If you do US servers only then the split is 57.93062577279611% Alliance 20-120 & 42.06937422720389% Horde 20-120 warcraftrealms.com or 55.80471244080515% Alliance at 120 & 44.19528755919485% Horde.

If you do EU servers only then the split is 44.68295145124351% Alliance 20-120 & 55.31704854875649% Horde 20-120 or 43.73739442833733% Alliance at 120 & 56.26260557166267% at 120.

Yeah those are the breakdowns in case you don't want to actually research shit before your shitty claims........

[Kelonaar]

He's right. You're wrong. http://warcraftrealms.com/census.php

Unless, of course, you have actual proof and a reason why we should accept it over the information in that link. Hint: Your internal fantasies are not proof.

Asking for "actual proof" when attempting to use an obviously inaccurate site as your own proof. Hypocritical much?

In the site's own FAQ it states that the data may be inaccurate for most realms until more people run their addon that allows them to collect the data. Looking at the server I play on, Mal'ganis, it shows only 651 total characters on their site. A single guild on Mal'ganis probably has that many members. Then compare that to the server population data from Wowprogress which shows the total population for Mal'ganis over 21,000 and it's pretty obvious that the info from your census site is not "actual proof" at all.

[Nomads]

Asking for "actual proof" when attempting to use an obviously inaccurate site as your own proof. Hypocritical much?

In the site's own FAQ it states that the data may be inaccurate for most realms until more people run their addon that allows them to collect the data. Looking at the server I play on, Mal'ganis, it shows only 651 total characters on their site. A single guild on Mal'ganis probably has that many members. Then compare that to the server population data from Wowprogress which shows the total population for Mal'ganis over 21,000 and it's pretty obvious that the info from your census site is not "actual proof" at all.

Shhhhh, logic will get in the way of their autistic screeching.

[gaymer77]

I love how the fanboys will use warcraftrealms when it suits their argument.

But if I was to say that based on the data you just showed me that WoW is down to a million subs your fucking head would explode and you'd be screeching.

Realmpop.com/us & realmpop.com/EU also disagree with you. So does statista.com

[Kelonaar]

Realmpop.com/us & realmpop.com/EU also disagree with you. So does statista.com

Realmpop:
"It's important to remember that we're simply counting the number of characters seen for each category. This does not mean the number of players, nor the number of actively played characters. We can't efficiently get activity data yet, so some characters may not have been played for a long time."

So unless they have a way to find and purge characters that were deleted, faction/name changed, etc., their population data is gonna be fairly skewed as well.

And based on it's source information basically being copy+pasted from realmpop's FAQ, I imagine that's where their data comes from.

[Zaktar]

I love how the fanboys will use warcraftrealms when it suits their argument.

But if I was to say that based on the data you just showed me that WoW is down to a million subs your fucking head would explode and you'd be screeching.

Great but you still aren't backing your data up. Bad numbers based on what I assume are self selected samples (definitely weak) are only slightly better than unsubstantiated ones, but they are better.

As to OP - I can't say it's outdated, but I'd enjoy a new faction. Blizzard could find ways to incentivize players to join, maybe create a mercenary/unaffiliated/ex-patriate type of faction which is very easy to join, but costly to leave, and bait it with unique content/items/mounts etc. I can't recall offhand, have they ever tried any tricks like slashing prices on faction changes in one direction, or even making it free for a period of time to rebalance?

Edit - That said to me making the game factionless would break a lot of the uniqueness to the game. Would much rather have additions than eradicating the system altogether and blandifying the game.

[Louz]

He's right. You're wrong. http://warcraftrealms.com/census.php

Unless, of course, you have actual proof and a reason why we should accept it over the information in that link. Hint: Your internal fantasies are not proof.

Make it 120 lvl only and it's the other way around.

Same goes for this guy:

Realmpop.com/us & realmpop.com/EU also disagree with you. So does statista.com

Filter the stats for 120 only and it's even more drastic difference.

Guess your thick heads just exploded.

[Raelone1]

Realmpop.com/us & realmpop.com/EU also disagree with you. So does statista.com

Actually, if you are looking at max level characters realmpop does not disprove him. Max level US distribution is 54.5 horde vs 45.5 Alliance. In the110 to 120 range, it is still 52 to 48 in favor of horde. For the EU max level is 55.9 to 44.1 in favor of horde and 110-120 is 52.6 to 47.4

[Surreality]

It's a 15 year old game with 14 years of crap piled on top of it. The game is mainly about mounts, toys, and transmogs now anyway. A true virtual dollhouse.

[gaymer77]

Make it 120 lvl only and it's the other way around.

Same goes for this guy:


Filter the stats for 120 only and it's even more drastic difference.

Guess your thick heads just exploded.

Funny how you completely missed the data I posted after this post you quoted. Just so you don't have to bother scrolling up to find it, here it is again:


Even if you use how many characters are 120 as the basis for "population" the split is 49.16287601198555% Alliance & 50.83712398801445% Horde. warcraftrealms.com

If you want to do the 20-120 population it is split 51.09707735334074% Alliance & 48.90292264665926% Horde. warcraftrealms.com

If you do US servers only then the split is 57.93062577279611% Alliance 20-120 & 42.06937422720389% Horde 20-120 warcraftrealms.com or 55.80471244080515% Alliance at 120 & 44.19528755919485% Horde.

If you do EU servers only then the split is 44.68295145124351% Alliance 20-120 & 55.31704854875649% Horde 20-120 or 43.73739442833733% Alliance at 120 & 56.26260557166267% at 120.

Yeah those are the breakdowns in case you don't want to actually research shit before your shitty claims........

[Nomads]

Funny how you completely missed the data I posted after this post you quoted. Just so you don't have to bother scrolling up to find it, here it is again:


Even if you use how many characters are 120 as the basis for "population" the split is 49.16287601198555% Alliance & 50.83712398801445% Horde. warcraftrealms.com

If you want to do the 20-120 population it is split 51.09707735334074% Alliance & 48.90292264665926% Horde. warcraftrealms.com

If you do US servers only then the split is 57.93062577279611% Alliance 20-120 & 42.06937422720389% Horde 20-120 warcraftrealms.com or 55.80471244080515% Alliance at 120 & 44.19528755919485% Horde.

If you do EU servers only then the split is 44.68295145124351% Alliance 20-120 & 55.31704854875649% Horde 20-120 or 43.73739442833733% Alliance at 120 & 56.26260557166267% at 120.

Yeah those are the breakdowns in case you don't want to actually research shit before your shitty claims........

Yet you plainly ignore everyone who points out the data is not accurate. You could take your own advice and check before posting, but that wouldn't fit your agenda.

Also completely besides the point of this thread.

[Garkanh]

Funny how you completely missed the data I posted after this post you quoted. Just so you don't have to bother scrolling up to find it, here it is again:


Even if you use how many characters are 120 as the basis for "population" the split is 49.16287601198555% Alliance & 50.83712398801445% Horde. warcraftrealms.com

If you want to do the 20-120 population it is split 51.09707735334074% Alliance & 48.90292264665926% Horde. warcraftrealms.com

If you do US servers only then the split is 57.93062577279611% Alliance 20-120 & 42.06937422720389% Horde 20-120 warcraftrealms.com or 55.80471244080515% Alliance at 120 & 44.19528755919485% Horde.

If you do EU servers only then the split is 44.68295145124351% Alliance 20-120 & 55.31704854875649% Horde 20-120 or 43.73739442833733% Alliance at 120 & 56.26260557166267% at 120.

Yeah those are the breakdowns in case you don't want to actually research shit before your shitty claims........

The guy claims the factions are inbalanced 44% alliance to 56% horde, then you go on a prove him right, (atleast for EU) yet calls his claims shitty... wat?