Bellular is wrong and his kind of mentality is what is wrong with WoW

[Pattyz]

Does anyone else feel like it is extremely easy to get 'top tier' gear and achievements? And when you do its like "big deal". I don't think many people care or pay attention to other peoples titles and achievement points. When you get a piece of lvl 395 gear.. ok thanks, now what- that's it? I think the legion artifact weapon was a pretty cool idea- the fact that you can work on changing the look of the weapon was awesome. But the Azerite necklace...once again, the item level goes up after you unlock (HOPEFULLY!) the traits that you want, and that's it?

10-15 years ago I played an MMO before WoW, that was ran by a horrible company but was wildly popular and addictive because you really had to work to become 'great', and the rewards were great because they were ofcourse effective but also visual. The best PVP'ers had a distinctive logo next to their name, and there were only 50 on an entire server, so when you saw them or if you had one it was awesome. The top 3 guilds on the server had these cool glowing arm bands- nobody else can get one. The best gear in the game, literally glowed- you can see them from a mile away. These are things you had to maintain and work for. If you didnt log in for a week, someone else just got your PVP symbol, and perhaps your guild arent top 3 anymore. Nothing in WoW stands out- IDK about anyone else but I wouldn't want to farm rep or a certain dungeon just for a title, or achievement points. Just by looking at characters, you cant really tell who has good gear or not- the top gear doesn't stand out at all- a set of ilvl 380 gear can look the same as ilvl 340. All in all, I don't think the 'top tier' rewards for actually putting in time into the game, and being a skilled player are accounted for. Sure you can get higher ilvl gear, and then what? What is there to maintain or work for? Achievement points for fishing? Cmon. MMO's are about your character-and right now in WoW, its all looking and feeling bland, nothing stands out!

[Nyel]

Yeah, Azerite gear makes no sense what so ever.
I can't even understand why someone at Blizz went "Hey, this is going to be just AWESOME, lets throw in pieces of gear that are just like the Netherlight Crucible, everyone just loved it!"

My own opinion is, that Blizzard needs another "Greg Street", some hated him, but if being serious Cata&MoP were his "crown jewels" in Class Design.
And I must say that I enjoyed nearly all of the specs back then.

MoP had top notch class design and even WoD wasn't that bad. Legion worked quite good because of artifacts, too. BfA simply doesn't work in that regard because everything is just horrible. Class design is horrible, the pruning done to the classes was horrible, GCD changes are horrible, the removal of t-sets was horrible and on top of that they give us HORRIBLE Azerite gear. I mean honestly, they basically couldn't have made it worse than it is right now.

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10-15 years ago I played an MMO before WoW, that was ran by a horrible company but was wildly popular and addictive because you really had to work to become 'great'

WoW was this back until the end of WotLK. You had to work to get something done. That's why raids like Ahn Qiraj, Black Temple, Ulduar and Icecrown Citadel are fondly remembered. You had to put in a lot of work to achieve something, to get epic gear that's competitive and to get all the achievements and content unlocked.

Since the introduction of LFR (yes, LFR was and is maybe the biggest mistake Blizzard made in WoW development) all of that has become... boring.

[Boss Lady]

Talking about the most recent video of Bellulargaming titled "The WoW PROBLEM That Blizzard Doesn’t Understand: Why WoW Rewards Feel BORING!"
Basically he claims "rewards" are the problem with WoW. They feel boring.

Stuff be said, like this:
"they need to start innovating in the visual and cosmetic direction if they want people to feel their characters progress"

And ths kind of mentality is what is wrong with World of Warcraft (IMO)
WoW players are addicted to rewards and Blizzard trained people to be addicted to them.
Useless to say this is a short term thing and, to my knowledge, is not "rewards" that make people play the game on the long run.

Why this is a flawed design? (a design focused on rewards)
-What happens when Blizzard creates the "ultimate cosmetic of mass destruction everyone wants"? What happens to the rewards after that?
Its impossible to keep making a reward better than the previous one. And if they made the "ultimate" one, everything after that would feel boring...
-Whats the point in having mount number #324 or transmog #222 i ask you.
What are you supposed to do when you get the transmog you want? Stop?

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My opinion:
Gameplay & Community > Everything else

Like @Slowpoke is a Gamer told me, what WoW needs is "fun repeatable content"
And i would add on top of that, create a design structure of gameplay that promotes the community helping eachother out.
Basically we need gameplay that will unite us.
This is mostly a product of playing in a "harsh environment" where people need the help of others. Be it information or actual help.

IMO what keeps people playing on the long term is Fame, Power, love for the gameplay and above all else, the relationships made ingame.

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Do you agree with Bellular? This guy is a game designer...but to me he is failing when he says the problem is with the "rewards"

So let me get this straight because you and another poster shared a similar idea, that trumps the opinion of an actual designer? I mean that is your entire argument here.

This is my opinion, and this other rando agrees.

Case closed... thanks for fixing wow.

Is the sarcasm coming through?

I think it's especially rich considering the departure from your normal drivel/crusade against transmog and how reveling at the gear and accomplishments of others is good for the game. Because it's the exact same thought process.

Rewards are THE lifeblood of an mmo. Developers can either drive people to or away from content by the rewards they provide.

I mean the fact that you don't acknowledge that... it's hard to have a worthwhile conversation with someone who doesn't recognize basic facts. This isn't design theory here... pick any mmo ever, and I can point to the design successes and failures and they will always revolve around rewards.

A few quick examples from WoW.

(1) Even in vanilla this rang true. If you were playing in the early stages of development and were raiding early on, you'd know that the early tiers were the most boring basic placeholder models, and it wasn't until they changes those models, that hype for that content really took off.

(2) Arena/PvP weapons being used for PvE. Players will always choose the path of least resistance for the rewards they want. Regardless of whether or not they enjoy it. PvP for a long while was the easiest place to get a decent weapons upgrade (particularly for melee). The weapon rewards... drove that PvP content, that many people would have otherwise avoided.

(3) Most recently heritage armor. Most people have 1 of every class at level cap (or at previous xpacs level cap) there is almost no motivation to go back and do old content and many folks like myself, wouldn't bother doing it ever again... UNLESS they provided rewards for it. They do, and many people have obtained them.

(4) Also recently, you have the pittance of 10% bonus rewards for xp and other resources for enabling Warmode, a feature that in my opinion most people don't enjoy, and really have no business turning it on. But who could turn down an extra 10%? You also have people who continue to keep it turned on, even when sharding and imbalanced factions make for extremely unfun experience... all for the sake of rewards.

Bellular is 100% correct. You sir are a nobody with a baseless opinion. Stop spamming the forums with your trash.

[Alkizon]

TBC/WotLK

Not agree. Class design in this period was better due to much expressed class fantasy and it harmonious with game's RPG part. Not everything was perfect, but almost everything that was after was already worse. Friend once called MoP as "most casual wise", maybe it’s true, but that doesn’t mean "better" (not saying that it was bad, just worse than before, it seemed better after Cata only because those talent trees versions were complete fail). First thing with which MoP loses are class mechanics, they mostly begin to go wrong somewhere since Cata (there are some points-exceptions, but if we talk about result in general).

3. Classes philosophy +(+)

[Deleted]

So let me get this straight because you and another poster shared a similar idea, that trumps the opinion of an actual designer? I mean that is your entire argument here. Case closed... thanks for fixing wow.

Is the sarcasm coming through?

I think it's especially rich considering the departure from your normal drivel/crusade against transmog and how reveling at the gear and accomplishments of others is good for the game. Because it's the exact same thought process.

Rewards are THE lifeblood of an mmo. Developers can either drive people to or away from content by the rewards they provide.

I mean the fact that you don't acknowledge that... it's hard to have a worthwhile conversation with someone who doesn't recognize basic facts. This isn't design theory here... pick any mmo ever, and I can point to the design successes and failures and they will always revolve around rewards.

A few quick examples from WoW.

(1) Even in vanilla this rang true. If you were playing in the early stages of development and were raiding early on, you'd know that the early tiers were the most boring basic placeholder models, and it wasn't until they changes those models, that hype for that content really took off.

(2) Arena/PvP weapons being used for PvE. Players will always choose the path of least resistance for the rewards they want. Regardless of whether or not they enjoy it. PvP for a long while was the easiest place to get a decent weapons upgrade (particularly for melee). The weapon rewards... drove that PvP content, that many people would have otherwise avoided.

(3) Most recently heritage armor. Most people have 1 of every class at level cap (or at previous xpacs level cap) there is almost no motivation to go back and do old content and many folks like myself, wouldn't bother doing it ever again... UNLESS they provided rewards for it. They do, and many people have obtained them.

(4) Also recently, you have the pittance of 10% bonus rewards for xp and other resources for enabling Warmode, a feature that in my opinion most people don't enjoy, and really have no business turning it on. But who could turn down an extra 10%? You also have people who continue to keep it turned on, even when sharding and imbalanced factions make for extremely unfun experience... all for the sake of rewards.

Bellular is 100% correct. You sir are a nobody with a baseless opinion. Stop spamming the forums with your trash.

What im trying to say is:
-If you only play the game for the rewards and you see the "work" to get there as boring...you are not having a great time, are you?
If you dont have fun with the gameplay and your SOLE REASON to the the content is the "reward"...Thats Messed Up!
Its really disturbing.

[Deleted]

What im trying to say is:
-If you only play the game for the rewards and you see the "work" to get there as boring...you are not having a great time, are you?
If you dont have fun with the gameplay and your SOLE REASON to the the content is the "reward"...Thats Messed Up!
Its really disturbing.

Welcome back. What was the reason for your absence this time?
Also - that 1-post personal hate speech you replied to ... someone is sure quite invested emotionally into you ... like ... a lot

[Deleted]

Welcome back. What was the reason for your absence this time?
Also - that 1-post personal hate speech you replied to ... someone is sure quite invested emotionally into you ... like ... a lot

I dont sleep since the hearthstone expansion release...im serious...18h oclock on the afternoon to 20 oclock of the next day......i didnt stop playing HS.

Im stupid

[Vynestra]

Bellular is not a game designer, he just asks for money and gets other people to work for him.

Yeah I dislike Bellular a ton, he's also supposedly a nasty person when not infront of the camera.

[Falu]

I completely disagree with Bellular - the problem is actually the over use & over saturation of cosmetic rewards - each new one becomes stale & unimportant almost as soon as it's achieved & even more so, sometimes it is even upsetting to just keep chasing these once carrots now diminished in size to micro ones.

The content feels too constructed to me, too layered out, too much "walk through" & too little "big & inspiring" - the world doesn't feel big because they design it so it can be completed in roughly a day or two so the repeatable farmolage can begin.
I don't have a magic solution but the world, the feeling of awe & exploration and ofcourse the variety of high stakes carrots present in Vanilla needs to somehow be tapped into again.

Raiding is pretty much fine btw but the way it interacts with the rest of the game is just not good enough, it doesn't feel like it's an entity inside WoW but rather a separate game almost.

[Deleted]

Preach Gaming talked about this topic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbW-kZXyjwI&t=4m55s

He agrees with me?

[Nightstalker]

Zero knowledge of the game..? Haven't they been playing since beta? Blizzard needs to listen to these people, not these actual 12 year olds who started in Cata/heard about wow through Fortnite.

Asmongold joined very late during Vanilla (end of 2006) and Bellular in Wrath. Zack might have grinded the game ever since, but Bellular has maybe seen 40-60% of what it has and had to offer. In many regards he is really unexperienced and relies on 2nd hand information.

[Prawnapple]

Yeah! But my point is, his critique could be much worse. He always keeps it civil. It feels like he wants to say worse / bad things but can't because his in Blizzard's back pocket.

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If you're seeing this everywhere, perhaps that says a lot about the current state of the game. Majority doesn't make something right, but it certainly won't mean they're all wrong.

[Tekkommo]

Bellular is what's wrong with WoW youtube content providers.

His name should be bellend.