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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Collecting Artifact skins and working on each alt's class hall campaign. And then later the class titles/mounts and mage towers. After having unique content across all my alts (12 classes) it's hard to go down to 2 (1 for each faction).

    Gotta catch em all is a great motivator. The artifact skins were super unique and each class had what, 24 to unlock per spec... 72 per class.... 864.
    Don't forget Suramar. While it personally wasn't my taste, a lot of people loved it, and it was a lot of story/content to do at max level.
    No surrender! 70 Vanguard - Ebon Hawk

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by HuxNeva View Post
    Except we were in Nighthold 2 weeks sooner than we will be in BfA's second raid, and that is without a small filler raid to keep us ticking over, or legendaries to chase.
    Compared to Legion, BfA's release schedule is glacial and that is why people feel the 'content drought'
    There also isn’t much to do even with 8.1 coming out next week. 8.1 fixes shit that should’ve been fixed in beta so it doesn’t really add much aside from a new warfront, legion invasion WQs 2.0 and currency farming (which is a good step but the content still sucks so..)

    Look at what @FelPlague posted about 7.1. It actually had a ton of shit for everyone. I loved the suramar campaign weekly quests, honor talent rework was decent for my class, etc. Alcaz island was actually pretty cool too, went there with some buddies to see what was up and enjoyed the time.

    8.1 has nothing like that really. It adds reskinned world quests from legion (yay more of the same shit we already did!), a warfront and currency vendors for warfronts and islands however both of those are still very boring.

    We killed mythic ghuun last month and we talked about burnout yesterday. Basically everyone’s just gonna chill until the new raid comes out however islands are still “required” until you hit neck level 33. Not like there’s much to do but all of us were happy at this point during legion aside from the legendary grind on top of AP grind. Can really feel the difference in quality here.

    TLDR: Mythic+ used to be the way to grind AP which was fun but now it’s islands (aka brain dead trash grind simulator), legendaries allowed old content to be repeatable even though the acquisition method and drop chances were all fucked up, artifacts were much more fun to progress than azerite armor so the grind was better as a result (unlocking +10% damage to X ability every 5 or so levels is boring, but unlocking that every level on the way to getting a big ability felt great), Suramar campaign was interesting and fun for me personally. Difference is massive imo.
    Last edited by Thestuff1992; 2018-12-06 at 06:40 PM.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    I'm not surprised that guilds are dying. There's not much to do in this expansion and it feels like we're in a content drought despite it only being the first patch. 8.1 isn't doing enough to fix that.
    yeah after only a few month,nothing left to do apart from the raid, wq =boring and serve nothing since azerite only unlock power, dont power them like in legion, no leg to farm = meh, mm+ being = you do your week chest and thats all, so the day of reset , you do some thing for 1-2 hour and the other 6 days are like = MEH.. !

    they kept the boring grinding of legion but removed all the things that was fun in it, like power your artefact or the leg ding, even table mission are boring to do since the gold mission is so low, it's not worth it, so why leveling other alts ?

    bfa = boring for all

  4. #204
    Dreadlord Moggie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaintk View Post
    they kept the boring grinding of legion but removed all the things that was fun in it, like power your artifact or the leg ding, even table mission are boring to do since the gold mission is so low, it's not worth it, so why leveling other alts ?

    bfa = boring for all
    Key point here. Blizz removed all the rewards and kept the same type of annoying grind going. Least in Legion, there were gold, leggos, paragon mounts, etc... even hidden things were around to do. Now? You’re still grinding your artifact weapon but it’s now in the form of a necklace and the traits 3/4th the time aren’t even worth it. As many problems legendaries brought to the table, least they added a layer to the classes. Blizz took those away and even more pruning happened so not much left there. It pains me when folks whine about paragon mounts and not wanting those...well played, the same folks thought ML was a great decision, or getting rid of leggos was awesome, or even (this made me chuckle) so many people applauded having an artifact neck instead of a weapon without giving much thoughts to how it was all being implemented (and folks in Alpha and Beta were desperately trying to get Blizz to listen).

    Tier? Gone, so even raiding feels super underwhelming and when you do it’s all about TF on things you probably already have, plus each class lost their identity with tier bonuses and looks. That’s bigger than folks realized. Still waiting for Blizz to show off their hard work on gear appearances, all of which currently look like a lvl 20 green you got from a quest... let’s forget ML fiasco. Had they left it for guild groups, it’d be fine but enforcing it and forcing raiders to endure the RNG boss is demeaning and not fun. You may have gotten lucky with gear, but guarantee many others in the same raid got screwed by RNG. And their overall raid design this tier is an absolute mess, an area Blizz generally shines. Uldr is not that good, and not too well received. Class stacking is acceptable, sometimes. Not nearly every boss. That’s a design failure.

    Islands, just another name for Scenarios a la MoP. We’ve been there, done that. Warfronts I consider a huge disaster the way it’s planned out... which is to say, it isn’t well planned and absolutely useless for players as a whole...but let’s put hotfix in for ilvl requirement to prevent alts from using it to gear (the original community idea for it since main’s generally don’t need anything there). Alts are super tedious to bother with nowadays and not very fun.

    Hell, even the quests leveling up were not very well done overall vs every other expansion.

    So, overall it’s not surprising guilds and teams are breaking up or throwing in the towels. It’s too early to tell whether it’ll go down as the worse expansion, but so far it’s not looking super good. Least WoD had the good raids going for it. >.<

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Moggie View Post
    Key point here. Blizz removed all the rewards and kept the same type of annoying grind going. Least in Legion, there were gold, leggos, paragon mounts, etc... even hidden things were around to do. Now? You’re still grinding your artifact weapon but it’s now in the form of a necklace and the traits 3/4th the time aren’t even worth it. As many problems legendaries brought to the table, least they added a layer to the classes. Blizz took those away and even more pruning happened so not much left there. It pains me when folks whine about paragon mounts and not wanting those...well played, the same folks thought ML was a great decision, or getting rid of leggos was awesome, or even (this made me chuckle) so many people applauded having an artifact neck instead of a weapon without giving much thoughts to how it was all being implemented (and folks in Alpha and Beta were desperately trying to get Blizz to listen).
    You're attributing BFA problems solely to reward structure, however adding a reward to crappy content makes game tedious, not fun.

    Biggest problem is class design. Your character and its gameplay is the most important way you interact with the game. If people find their spec bad, clunky, slow, weak, lacking tools to deal with various situations in pve or pvp, frustrating to play (problems like too much rng in rotation, feast or famine resource flow, dead talents) then of course their motivation to play drops by a lot. For some reason wherever I turn, I see havoc demon hunters. Why? Because the spec has everything it needs to be fun. But there are many specs that just feel lacking.

    Another problem is how fun is the content. Adding bigger rewards to the same boring grind doesn't make it any less boring. What if instead of braindead islands and warfronts we would get a proper player housing system, or some treasure hunt minigame for actually worthy treasures, or solo challenges. You can't appeal to everyone, but things like paragon reps and islands seem to appeal to next to no one, only people who like them are people who like the rewards from them, not the content itself.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I remember reading a post where they clearly stated the main problem of BfA: it feels like we're at the end of an expansion cycle and experience the usual content drought. The only difference here is that BfA is not at its end but at its beginning which is a horrible sign for the longevity of this expansion. We have to deal with this mess for 1.5 years. 8.1 doesn't change anything, at best 8.2 can make it better (which is highly unlikely though).

    This is exactly how it feels IMO. For me, at the end of every expansion (except TBC) I've felt like there isn't a lot to do. I turn to leveling alts, farming mog/mounts (since Cata), etc. I've already started doing that in this one (plus I just finished getting the void set). I really like the zones (especially Drustvar), but I'm bored to death in this game.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Revak View Post
    This is exactly how it feels IMO. For me, at the end of every expansion (except TBC) I've felt like there isn't a lot to do. I turn to leveling alts, farming mog/mounts (since Cata), etc. I've already started doing that in this one (plus I just finished getting the void set). I really like the zones (especially Drustvar), but I'm bored to death in this game.
    The question is, how could Blizzard f* up this much when they did almost everything right with Legion. It's like they went from 100% to 10% within an expansion cycle. Why? Nobody knows. Cost savings?

    How is it possible that a 4 month old expansion feels like we're in the content drought after its last content patch. Honestly. And nothing really changes until the raid opens which is another 5-8 weeks away.
    - Battle for Azeroth is the Michael Bay of WoW expansions -

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    My guild has been essentially dead since mid-October, and is pretty much completely dead now.

    8.1 isn't generating much excitement by itself, and the next raid not coming out until January or February is way too long.

    For context:

    Legion Launch Date - 8/30/16
    Legion First Raid Launch Date - 9/20/16 (3 weeks post launch)
    Legion First Major Patch Date - 10/25/16 (8 weeks post launch)
    Legion Second Raid Launch Date - 11/8/16 (7 weeks post first raid)

    BfA Launch Date - 8/14/18 (nearly 3 months more time to build than Legion)
    BfA First Raid Launch Date - 9/4/18 (3 weeks post launch)
    BfA First Major Patch Date - 12/11/18 (17 weeks post launch - aka more than twice as long as Legion)
    BfA Second Raid Launch Date - 1/22/19 (Estimated) (20 weeks post first raid - aka nearly 3 times as long as Legion)

    So, not only did Blizz kick out an objectively lesser expansion compared to Legion, they are incredibly slow in continuing with the expansion. Blizz themselves are what is killing the guilds and this game.
    Cause Trial of Valor was such Major Raid Tier yeah, no not really, that meant there was 34 WEEKS before Nighthold was out.
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  9. #209
    Along with the content draught, I think there are a few other things that are helping to kill guilds.

    1) "Compelling" story, people want to see both sides of this WoW story, people are rolling alts on the other side to go through the content, which drags people away from their guild community.

    2) Social tools in WoW, now that they've added communities, a way to branch out socially in game & do even more activities without a guild (LFR, LFG, Group finder) or do activities without having to engage with their guild.

    I think unless you're in a tight knit guild that has history or are progressing in raiding, people don't see a point in guilds now. Apart from a faster HS CD and mount speed, what's really on offer now?

    I was excited about the guild improvements they announced for BfA, but after a horrible UI refit & guild controls being decimated, the best thing we got was a perpetual guild chat. I was hoping for some decent audit logs & guild controls within the guild.

    Honestly I think professions have more love & chance to succeed in WoW than guilds do right now (lol).

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    The question is, how could Blizzard f* up this much when they did almost everything right with Legion. It's like they went from 100% to 10% within an expansion cycle. Why? Nobody knows. Cost savings?
    Budget pressure is my guess. If so, things will not improve, as the pressure is only going to get worse as game usage continues to fall. At some point, perhaps near, the game goes into accelerated decline as quality falls below some minimum required level to sustain interest. I think the remaining players may be shocked at that point when Activision-Blizzard takes some aggressive action, like P2W monetization or even selling the IP to another company.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    Q: Why was the anti-vaxxer's 4 year old child crying? A: Midlife crisis.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Aftermathhqt View Post
    Cause Trial of Valor was such Major Raid Tier yeah, no not really, that meant there was 34 WEEKS before Nighthold was out.
    34 weeks before Nighthold was out?

    And remember, there was not only ToV in between, there was Karazhan which was amazing in almost every aspect.
    - Battle for Azeroth is the Michael Bay of WoW expansions -

  12. #212
    Field Marshal Featherogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorgandalf View Post
    Yup. Killed ours too. No one seems to care much about the game anymore. Uldir was fun but short lived.
    Blizz doesn't care about their game anymore, that's why we don't care.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker1 View Post
    My solo guild is alive and well!
    Hah, my solo Horde-guild is also alive and well!

    Bit less people in my Alliance guild compared to how it was in Legion, but Legion was actually unique when it comes to that. Went back now to how it was in Cata-mop-wod. Most people coming on for raids.
    Zandalari music for BfA. Pure GOLD!

    Tortollan or Clash of Clans will kill WoW.

  14. #214
    we quit on Wednesday when we had to pug 4 for mythic farm reclear, 5/8, stopped at zek'voz because nobody was willing to carry on, i'm pretty sure our sunday raid is not happening and than we have christmas break, so it's a gg.
    zug zug

    what is it paladin, one zug is not enough for ya?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfNone View Post
    lore should be voluntary to the game. not obligatory.

  15. #215
    I play on EU since launch, so the time zone are different (from Canada). But ive always manage to find people raiding at nighttime there (meaning between 1am-4am, server time), the core group being French Canadian like myself. Our guild stopped its main activities in October. To be able to find a new guild with the same schedule, I changed faction and moved server (which cost the same as 6 months of time play....). Then... after only a month, that guild disbanded as well. Im reaching a point where Im gonna play casual for a while. The best option, long term, would be to start over on the US server.... but my account is like 12 years old.... hard to put everything aside and start over.

    People are getting tired of the game, demotivated. BfA doesn't offer enough at the moment to keep people in the game. PvP is still doing ok as far as I can see. But PvE is dying.

  16. #216
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    This is because taking 2-3 weeks out means you're irrevocably behind the curve on Azerite, and you come back into a massive bullshit grind to try to catch up on what you missed out on. No one wants to come back to that.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Budget pressure is my guess. If so, things will not improve, as the pressure is only going to get worse as game usage continues to fall. At some point, perhaps near, the game goes into accelerated decline as quality falls below some minimum required level to sustain interest. I think the remaining players may be shocked at that point when Activision-Blizzard takes some aggressive action, like P2W monetization or even selling the IP to another company.
    blizzard is already testing new model if you didnt notice

    this model is "we are re-releasing past expansions and include them into sub"

    they can ride on this train for years because everyone has their favourite expansion that they will play and play .

    all they have to is to rerelease new expansion every 2 years and they are golden for at least 10 years in case of revenue.

    they simply have no reason to go f2p - to many people will always play wow due to how many years they sinked in into game by now

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by lollermittens View Post
    Just a thread on reddit touching about this issue: my guild took a week off during the week of Thanksgiving since everyone was travelling and people wouldn't be able to make it to Mythic raiding progression.

    The week after, 14 people logged on. Before, we had trouble getting the full 20 but had a consisent 18-19 logging on.

    Now? 7 of my guild mates who were logging on every day before the break haven't bothered to log on.

    We're actually progressing decently too as we're tackling Fetid Devourer which we almost have down and will move on to Zul.

    Thanksgiving break has been a deathknell for many guilds. It has been for mine. TBH, I'm guilty of it too since I've only logged for raid time last Tuesday and Wednesday and haven't bothered to log back on this week at all.

    8.1 can't come fast enough but even then, not sure if it will be enough content until 8.2
    This is perfectly normal. People get out of their cave, have fun with actual human beings and realize busting their ass for a shitty raid they're tired of doing is just not worth their time.

    New content will bring people back, and they will all leave again when it gets boring. That's just the natural cycle of things. It happened exactly like that for 14 years now, no reason to panic today. Some people will come back, some won't. It's not the fault of the game or Blizzard, that's just life and it's perfectly fine.
    Making this dump a better place, whether you like it or not.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I think the remaining players may be shocked at that point when Activision-Blizzard takes some aggressive action, like P2W monetization or even selling the IP to another company.
    Companies never sell IP, but they may license it to a 3rd party developer.

    But I agree with your first bit.

    I'm willing to be there's someone from Activision soaking themselves over the idea of making WoW F2P so they can shove in aggressive micro-transactions as a justification.

    Even if it's currently in decline, WoW is a big net. There's bound to be more than your average number of whales willing to sink thousands into the game in a few quarters.

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