[8.1] Prot m+/raid "viable"?

[ho1Y]

still trash in m+,

rated H for honest. sry guys

[Deleted]

Dunno but when someone that's pretty much doing top tier m+ puts prot on the same spot with DH, it's rather good imo

https://www.wowhead.com/news=289128/...nkings-for-8-1

[Xkiller9000]

top notch guilds are gearing warriors in farm uldir content because theyre gonna be pretty good, not sure if op tho

[Deciticus]

If by viable you mean "can force to make work" then yes. Ignore Pain changes and even the new Avatar azerite trait seem very nice. However, it seems like Blizzard is holding off making any real changes because once Prot Warriors are back to 30% and beyond haste we'll start scaling very well, which means Prot Wars are going to get benched until the last tier.

If by viable you mean "work in any situation" then no. Hell to the fuck no. DH and DK are still kings. Paladin, Druid, and Monk have useful raid utility. Prot Warrior is dead last in utility and self-healing.

Prot warrior is still not good for competitive-anything. You can just force it to work by having the entire group compensate/carry its faults.

Were you born slow? DH is trash tier right now, it's sitting pretty with bear at the bottom, both in m+ and raid. Guardian, even post buffs, is still terrible, and only would see use in raid if there is a fight where a stampede bitch would be needed.

Prot warrior took the least physical damage of any tank, and required the least healing, before the patch. After this, prot is barely even going to need healing against physical attacks. You really need to re-evaluate the changes, because you're coming off a bit daft lad.

Additionally, dk is looking to be hurting as a raid tank due to their large armor nerf, which is an ~18% ehp nerf.

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that 16gb of patch you downloaded won't be enough to fix prot warrior. And guess what they buffed blood dk even more.

Blood got nerfed though?....

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The patch doesn't really change much other than quality of life issues. Yes, Prot got some small buffs but is still very good at what it was good at before and still very weak at what it was weak at before.

IP change makes it way smoother to play tho so I'm excited.

The buffs are massive. Prot takes literally no physical damage anymore while blocking.Actually, right now a prot warrior without SB up could face tank a thrash at 380 and not die.

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still trash in m+,

rated H for honest. sry guys

Above dh, bear, and paladin, that's not trash tier.

[Keren]

I mean, the monk nerf is largely going to be due to how stagger scales with agi in BFA, and (very slightly) to punish bad play more. The dk nerf, on the other hand, is just a hard nerf to armor, roughly 18% ehp to physical damage.

Base Stagger amount reduced to 105% of Agility (was 140%).
Ironskin Brew increases Stagger by 270% (was 250%).

5500 AGI 8.0: 7700 stagger, 19250 IB
5500 AGI 8.1: 5775 base, ~15600 IB

thats about 20% less now.. there will be about 20% more direct damage that hits monks now.
So less damage they can remove from their stagger aswell


overall ontopic: i think that prot tanks, with the gcds changes, small mobility buff and the better scaling with strength look pretty good

[Deciticus]

Base Stagger amount reduced to 105% of Agility (was 140%).
Ironskin Brew increases Stagger by 270% (was 250%).

5500 AGI 8.0: 7700 stagger, 19250 IB
5500 AGI 8.1: 5775 base, ~15600 IB

thats about 20% less now.. there will be about 20 more damage that directly hits monks now. So less damage they can remove from their stagger aswell


overall ontopic: i think that prot tanks, with the gcds changes, small mobility buff and the better scaling with strength look pretty good

It's not 20% more. It's just the 3% nerf from the latest ptr build. It's not even a real nerf. It's just to keep down their stagger as their agility increases.

[Volitar]

The buffs are massive. Prot takes literally no physical damage anymore while blocking.Actually, right now a prot warrior without SB up could face tank a thrash at 380 and not die.

The changes are literally a 5% stamina gain, 10% strength gain, and nerf to our best trait.

Prot is still the best tank in the game at taking damage that is blockable and the worst tank in the game for damage that is not blockable.

[Deleted]

The changes are literally a 5% stamina gain, 10% strength gain, and nerf to our best trait.

Prot is still the best tank in the game at taking damage that is blockable and the worst tank in the game for damage that is not blockable.

What ???

It's 10% stamina + armor, 2 sec off of Shield Block (on top of ranged attacks being blockable now), Ignore Pain off gcd and intervene off gcd

We already have the most amount of base armor out of any tanks and we're getting even more + our ehp is going up

[ho1Y]

Were you born slow? DH is trash tier right now, it's sitting pretty with bear at the bottom, both in m+ and raid. Guardian, even post buffs, is still terrible, and only would see use in raid if there is a fight where a stampede bitch would be needed.

Prot warrior took the least physical damage of any tank, and required the least healing, before the patch. After this, prot is barely even going to need healing against physical attacks. You really need to re-evaluate the changes, because you're coming off a bit daft lad.

Additionally, dk is looking to be hurting as a raid tank due to their large armor nerf, which is an ~18% ehp nerf.

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Blood got nerfed though?....

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The buffs are massive. Prot takes literally no physical damage anymore while blocking.Actually, right now a prot warrior without SB up could face tank a thrash at 380 and not die.

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Above dh, bear, and paladin, that's not trash tier.

so then there you go... live your dream :-)

not in my grps though

[Meiffert]

The dk nerf, on the other hand, is just a hard nerf to armor, roughly 18% ehp to physical damage.

I strongly suspect that this number shouldn't be 18 %.
I'm getting about 4-5 % from the armor nerf and the WotN talent is about 5 % EHP nerf, but not much of a damage taken nerf since you aren't constantly dropping to 1 HP to take advantage.

you can go onto the ptr and grab all 415 gear from vendors. at that gear level ive been told stagger is pretty much back to where it is now.

Not if you also take into account the scaling K value which will be higher in Battle of Dazar'alor.

Of course, delaying 80 % instead of 83 % of your incoming damage still keeps monks head and shoulders above anyone else in terms of EHP.
Whether that will make them the clear choice depends on encounter design.

[Deleted]

Prot warrior took the least physical damage of any tank, and required the least healing, before the patch.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good joke mate.

[Ivanstone]

It's 10% stamina + armor,

Its 3.5% and 6.7% respectively. Its not a flat gain, its a modifier to a skill affecting those stats. Not that I'm complaining.
1.5/1.45 = 1.035
1.6/1.5 = 1.067

****

Anyone have a rough estimate how much more rage we'll be having? Obviously we can assume there will be less rage waste. Outside of Avatar, I'm thinking an extra Devastate once every 10s. Inside of Avatar, if you were casting IP you did it at the expense of something good. So maybe an extra Shield Slam proc every 30s.

[Deleted]

Its 3.5% and 6.7% respectively. Its not a flat gain, its a modifier to a skill affecting those stats. Not that I'm complaining.
1.5/1.45 = 1.035
1.6/1.5 = 1.067

****

Anyone have a rough estimate how much more rage we'll be having? Obviously we can assume there will be less rage waste. Outside of Avatar, I'm thinking an extra Devastate once every 10s. Inside of Avatar, if you were casting IP you did it at the expense of something good. So maybe an extra Shield Slam proc every 30s.

I ment the buff to Vanguard obviously

Right now, I can have streaks of TC>SS inside avatar for a quite few consequential times (like 4-5) and unless I'm wasting gcd to not waste rage and cast IP, I'm just sitting at 100 rage and wasting anything excess (that obviously when I'm not taking extreme damage)

So with the IP change, I can dump the excess rage into IP which means due to Anger Management, Demo shout and Avatar will be ready sooner which means they will generate rage more frequently.

It also means more less CD on last stand and shield wall > more block uptime

[Ivanstone]

I ment the buff to Vanguard obviously

Right now, I can have streaks of TC>SS inside avatar for a quite few consequential times (like 4-5) and unless I'm wasting gcd to not waste rage and cast IP, I'm just sitting at 100 rage and wasting anything excess (that obviously when I'm not taking extreme damage)

So with the IP change, I can dump the excess rage into IP which means due to Anger Management, Demo shout and Avatar will be ready sooner which means they will generate rage more frequently.

It also means more less CD on last stand and shield wall > more block uptime

People have tendency to think of the Vanguard buff as an actual flat buff. The buff is actually smaller and its better to not get people's hopes up too much.

I am aware of the AM advantages happening here. I'm interested in the quantity here. There will be increased use of Devastate outside of Avatar. There will also be Intercept shenanigans and a smoother initial pull since Avatar and Intercept will be cast simultaneously. 40 additional rage per 30s? 60 or 80 rage?

[Deciticus]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good joke mate.

Look at a fight like Fetid, where tank damage is high and purely physical. Look at the erhps numbers of different tank. It's not a joke.

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Its 3.5% and 6.7% respectively. Its not a flat gain, its a modifier to a skill affecting those stats. Not that I'm complaining.
1.5/1.45 = 1.035
1.6/1.5 = 1.067

****

Anyone have a rough estimate how much more rage we'll be having? Obviously we can assume there will be less rage waste. Outside of Avatar, I'm thinking an extra Devastate once every 10s. Inside of Avatar, if you were casting IP you did it at the expense of something good. So maybe an extra Shield Slam proc every 30s.

If you think of it really simply, you typically use IP what, 50-60 times in a 5 minute fight? So that's ~50-60 more other abilities. Assuming majority devastates, and keeping the 30% ss reset. that's what, roughly 15-20 more SS over a 5 minute period? At extremely rough math.

[stross01]

They have not removed the cap on DC extension, wtf are you talking about

Oh, you're right. It's just EXTREMELY POORLY WORDED.

Blizzard is pretty notorious for shitty, inconsistent, misleading tooltips.

It does make me wonder why they'd gut the only good trait prot has, though.

[Ivanstone]

It does make me wonder why they'd gut the only good trait prot has, though.

As much as I like Deafening Crash I find its design to be a little questionable.

"Hay Gusy, Avatar and DS r on CD! We gotta wait 30s btwn pulls." Being really good half the time and not so good the rest isn't really a good design for a tank. Not sure what they intended to be honest. I suspect the short CD is intended to fill the gaps between Shield Block charges but no one really plays it that way.

If you think of it really simply, you typically use IP what, 50-60 times in a 5 minute fight? So that's ~50-60 more other abilities. Assuming majority devastates, and keeping the 30% ss reset. that's what, roughly 15-20 more SS over a 5 minute period? At extremely rough math.

I checked one of my Fetid logs. 15 IP Casts, 10 Hard Revenge Casts, no wasted Rage in 3 minutes. I might've been sloppy on SS casts but probably not significantly. I could probably turn those globals into an extra 40 rage per minute but not radically more than that.

[Sorshen]

Prot warrior took the least physical damage of any tank, and required the least healing, before the patch.

The buffs are massive. Prot takes literally no physical damage anymore while blocking.

I dunno what you're literally smoking, but I want some.

[Deciticus]

I dunno what you're literally smoking, but I want some.

Yknow, you people keep saying that, but the numbers are there.

[dcc626]

It's not 20% more. It's just the 3% nerf from the latest ptr build. It's not even a real nerf. It's just to keep down their stagger as their agility increases.

still have 83%stagger with ISB up. its pretty much nothing.