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  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    The funniest thing about the "You think you do, but you don't" is that it's right and oh-so wrong at the same time.
    At the time, it was uttering that players don't actually want classic. In that way he was completely wrong.

    But the actual essence of what he meant was that just because a lot of people say they want x for the game doesn't necessarily mean that's what they'll actually enjoy.
    Players don't know what they want, and if game development was a democracy WoW would have died before it's first anniversary.
    Bosses dropping dozens of items, exp required per level at ridiculously low levels, reputation that can be maxed in an afternoon, gear vendors with tier sets from the previous raid tier. That's the kind of shit players would vote in a majority for. Always letting short-term "fun" beat long-term health of the game.
    It wouldn't make for a fun game experience for long.

    If you've ever jumped onto one of those dumb insta-max level private servers and got to buy full t3 and BiS weapons, you realize that the game is fun for about 15 minutes afterwards. There are no goals, there are no obstacles or challenges.
    Game development is indeed very much about saving players from themselves.

    And BFA is in many ways the epitome of player feedback.
    It genuinely is what feedback has told them over the years, together with data of course regarding how people actually play the game.
    But people don't like it.
    What you are describing, in many ways, is what WoW became not what it was. As I said before in this thread the "spirit" of that comment from J. Allen could be directed at Retail WoW as easily as it could at those wanting Vanilla. The problem with modern WoW is a singular lack of vision on the part of Blizzard combined with an acquiescence to player requests that in and of themselves may or may not have been bad individually but the combined effect of which has produced a very unsatisfying and soulless game.

  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentail View Post
    RS was completely dead. (...) RS, even with their “thriving” Classic servers that came out are still super dead compared to all MMORPGs, or at least the ones people have heard of.
    Have any reliable sources on this? Google trends seems to show that while RS was indeed on great decline, it was nowhere near dead and in fact had more interest than other MMORPGs, and thanks to OSRS is still today on par:
    https://trends.google.pt/trends/expl...%2Fm%2F0jt2y_q

    Also, WoW has also lost "most" subscribers. By 2014 WoW had over 100M created player accounts. Even if there still would be 10M subscribers, that would still mean most people who have played are no longer playing.
    Last edited by Kolvarg; 2019-08-22 at 06:33 PM.

  3. #703
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Skinner View Post
    You seem to like dull gameplay. Did you play raids in all iterations?



    You know nothing about majorities and minorities.



    Well, or the classic hype is over. I am sure you find another game to hope it will be the next classic experience.

    People like you do not get it is about the first time, and WoW classics biggest strength was massive novelty, even considering the fact it was the first MMORPG which also gave content to casual gamers.

    Blizzard did not follow that path consequently. So here they are now, with retail being driven by a massive premade group bias from the devs, and classic being a big hype about outdated gameplay and attitudes, which may have been the first casual gamer content offering MMORPG of its time, but which is not adressing nowadays casual gamers anymore.
    LMAO. Because I enjoy all the aspects of vanilla, I somehow don't get that I'm only supposed to enjoy it the first time I play it? Riiiiiiight. Gotcha.

    I must've been mistaken when I was enjoying playing on PServers for 4 years! Silly me! And I'm clearly woefully mistaken in looking forward to enjoying it all over again for another 2 years!

    And of course, you are the oracle of all knowledge regarding majorities and minorities despite providing zero evidence of any kind!

    People like you don't get that other people enjoy vanilla for what it is and no amount of whinging by yourself will ever change that.

  4. #704
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Yeah, and 2 months after release when the game is still thriving, you're going to say "4 months"

    and then "6 months"

    and then "a year"

    and then "3 years"

    and then....

    It's pitiful that you can't find anything better to do with your time than sit around and shitpost on forums about a game you don't like, trying to convince people to stop having fun and stop enjoying the game, and that it's going to """""""""""fail"""""""""""" in some way that you keep changing the definition of.
    The goalposts will be continually moved, eventually they will claim it will die when naxx is on farm for the majority of the population.
    One Sweet Dream

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by Doomchicken View Post
    And if you actually thought about those numbers for 2 seconds you'd realize how much of an epic fail Nost was. 150k ACCOUNTS active after 12 months, 650k ACCOUNTS inactive for a FREE game that supposedly according to the classic fanbois "will be more popular than retail". It lost the majority of its playerbase in under a year before shutting down when it was free, and people think that now people have to pay for it, it's going to more popular? Sure, they can think that, but if they think that then I have a shiny diamond I want to sell them.
    Imagine being this wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelwe View Post
    Instead they wasted resources on an experiment that will most likely fail and they just move on to give us another mediocre and bland xpac, no one will benefit.
    hahaha, reading this forum is such a comedy gold mine
    Last edited by Oomkinboomkin; 2019-11-22 at 02:19 PM.

  6. #706
    Bloodsail Admiral time0ut's Avatar
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    I'm having a blast in Classic. It is everything I thought it would be. My guild, some of whom I've been playing with for almost 15 years, has a small thriving core and enough to fill a 40 man raid every week. It isn't the holy grail of gaming some people portray it as, but it is a great game, in part due to its shortcomings.

  7. #707
    Elemental Lord HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    As much as I love Classic atm, I always return to retail to see what's up. And while a lot of it is still real trash, I have a newfound appreciation for certain aspects of it. Specifically the raiding, art, and music. All 3 of those things are still neigh perfect in retail, and as much as I "like" raiding in Classic, the shit's just too easy. Hence, why I still play retail, for the actual hard raiding.

  8. #708
    I've had fun in Classic just because of the community not being shit to each other 24/7, and people actually communicating in the open world, regularly.

    That said, the mechanics are dated and there are a lot of issues I can't stand, like the atrocious class balance. It's a fun experiment and I love the community, but I never planned on staying in the longterm. I'll still dabble, at least, though, and it was more fun than I expected it would be. I vastly underestimated the impact it would have on the community... hell, I think we all did.

  9. #709
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oomkinboomkin View Post
    Imagine being this wrong



    hahaha, reading this forum is such a comedy gold mine
    Well they ain’t wrong. AFAIK, retail is still more popular and Shadowlands does look mediocre to me so far.

  10. #710
    trying it out and getting tired of it sounds like half of the retail xpacs for me anyway, including bfa

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelwe View Post
    I mean about the whole "You think you do, but you don't" thing.

    Let me explain, I think everyone is missing the point with Classic, not just Blizz but also the community:

    Going back to the vanilla experience, while it may be fun for a while, it's a stupid move, Blizzard probably has dedicated a lot of money (maybe not "new expansion" kind of money, but still it must have costed quite a bit) to recreate something that most people will abandon after a short time. Then they'll be able to say "See? We told you" and everyone will forget about it, when they could've easily done the right move.

    People don't miss the actual vanilla game, they miss the experience: the slower leveling and gameplay, the harder difficulty, the sense of actually achieving things, the progression, etc.
    But these are things that can be easily done or replicated in the current WoW, with some adjustements.

    But going back to the full, brutal, boring vanilla experience? It's just crazy. I agree that a lot QOL improvements done over the years have taken away from the game, but a lot of them make a lot of sense and actually turn the game into a more enjoyable experience.
    You can have a new expansions that shifts the gameplay more towards the classic experience but keeping improvements done over time when they make sense. They can even do this in a "Cataclysm" style xpac that changes the entire game, so the leveling experience is consistent with the top level content.

    Instead they wasted resources on an experiment that will most likely fail and they just move on to give us another mediocre and bland xpac, no one will benefit.

    Oh, and I'm sure that there will be some people perfectly happy with Classic, but quite honestly, they'll probably be a small minority of the playerbase.
    Not sure if it's the minority enjoying Classic or not, who is minority is certainly the posters here as most people who play games dont even go to the forums, let alone MMO-Champion. That said, I do not even care if I was the minority, as I am enjoying Classic immensely, it's the best game I have played for 14 years.

    As for the things that could be replicated in retail from vanilla/Classic, I have long lost hope in that. Every expansion has just been getting worse, from implementing flying, to Dungeon Finder, to LFR, to hopping portals etc. Retail is just a bloated hollow husk of a game for me, with million things to do and million things to collect, but at the same time empty, where you never say a word to anyone.

  12. #712
    Quote Originally Posted by Oomkinboomkin View Post
    Imagine being this wrong



    hahaha, reading this forum is such a comedy gold mine
    Well, it still has to be proven wrong. We are couple months into and all servers are down to one layer and some have ques, while before servers had layers and longer ques. A drop off is a big one, Not that it was not known, but the actual longevity of the game will only be seen after the Naxx is out and being farmed, at that point only true vanilla players will be left there not some rushing content consumers.

  13. #713
    I enjoyed my time in Classic far more than any other time spent in WOW since Wrath ended. But I have since moved back to Ark, I think I am just over wow after 15 years, I don't even care to log into retail for the anniversary stuff. I think I am just done.

  14. #714
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Well, it still has to be proven wrong. We are couple months into and all servers are down to one layer and some have ques, while before servers had layers and longer ques. A drop off is a big one, Not that it was not known, but the actual longevity of the game will only be seen after the Naxx is out and being farmed, at that point only true vanilla players will be left there not some rushing content consumers.
    I'm on one of the bigger servers that still had layers and queues and when they removed the last layer there was no increase in the queue times at all which seems to show that the decreasing of the layers was not linked to the number of players on our server.

    Now with only 1 layer it means the major cities are lag filled and nearly crashing before raids and especially waiting for onyxia buff.

    Overall our queue has been fairly consistent over the months showing our population staying pretty much steady throughout and even seeing surges when Dire Maul was released and when the honor system launched.

  15. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelwe View Post
    I mean about the whole "You think you do, but you don't" thing.

    Let me explain, I think everyone is missing the point with Classic, not just Blizz but also the community:

    Going back to the vanilla experience, while it may be fun for a while, it's a stupid move, Blizzard probably has dedicated a lot of money (maybe not "new expansion" kind of money, but still it must have costed quite a bit) to recreate something that most people will abandon after a short time. Then they'll be able to say "See? We told you" and everyone will forget about it, when they could've easily done the right move.

    People don't miss the actual vanilla game, they miss the experience: the slower leveling and gameplay, the harder difficulty, the sense of actually achieving things, the progression, etc.
    But these are things that can be easily done or replicated in the current WoW, with some adjustements.

    But going back to the full, brutal, boring vanilla experience? It's just crazy. I agree that a lot QOL improvements done over the years have taken away from the game, but a lot of them make a lot of sense and actually turn the game into a more enjoyable experience.
    You can have a new expansions that shifts the gameplay more towards the classic experience but keeping improvements done over time when they make sense. They can even do this in a "Cataclysm" style xpac that changes the entire game, so the leveling experience is consistent with the top level content.

    Instead they wasted resources on an experiment that will most likely fail and they just move on to give us another mediocre and bland xpac, no one will benefit.

    Oh, and I'm sure that there will be some people perfectly happy with Classic, but quite honestly, they'll probably be a small minority of the playerbase.
    It's so subjective... every person will respond differently to his point.

    However, there is wisdom in the fact that we were 15 years younger and therefore how we experience classic will never be what it was back then.

    Bis lists, pvp stockpiling, knowing upcoming phases... really changes how you play the game.

  16. #716
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelwe View Post
    I mean about the whole "You think you do, but you don't" thing.

    Let me explain, I think everyone is missing the point with Classic, not just Blizz but also the community:

    Going back to the vanilla experience, while it may be fun for a while, it's a stupid move, Blizzard probably has dedicated a lot of money (maybe not "new expansion" kind of money, but still it must have costed quite a bit) to recreate something that most people will abandon after a short time. Then they'll be able to say "See? We told you" and everyone will forget about it, when they could've easily done the right move.

    People don't miss the actual vanilla game, they miss the experience: the slower leveling and gameplay, the harder difficulty, the sense of actually achieving things, the progression, etc.
    But these are things that can be easily done or replicated in the current WoW, with some adjustements.

    But going back to the full, brutal, boring vanilla experience? It's just crazy. I agree that a lot QOL improvements done over the years have taken away from the game, but a lot of them make a lot of sense and actually turn the game into a more enjoyable experience.
    You can have a new expansions that shifts the gameplay more towards the classic experience but keeping improvements done over time when they make sense. They can even do this in a "Cataclysm" style xpac that changes the entire game, so the leveling experience is consistent with the top level content.

    Instead they wasted resources on an experiment that will most likely fail and they just move on to give us another mediocre and bland xpac, no one will benefit.

    Oh, and I'm sure that there will be some people perfectly happy with Classic, but quite honestly, they'll probably be a small minority of the playerbase.
    I like how he said Blizzard and the community missed it..Op are you that narcissistic to have the rest of us believe that everyone else is wrong and you are right. I stopped reading after that.

  17. #717
    The Lightbringer Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    I didn't say you insulted me, I said you had attitude, for no reason.

    Learn to read.
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    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

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  18. #718
    Quote Originally Posted by Oomkinboomkin View Post
    Imagine being this wrong



    hahaha, reading this forum is such a comedy gold mine
    Prove me wrong then. We're barely three months in and the popularity of classic is already WAY down from its launch. Most of the servers have no queues (a couple still do) most servers have no layers. This isn't WoD levels of popularity burst/bad retention but it's getting close. And this is barely 3 months in. Imagine what its going to look like in a year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooky View Post
    yeah wow cool..how about raising the valor cap consider WoD isn't that far away? 1000 valor points gets u a lollipop and kick in the nutsack these days! Back in my day we could get a bucket of candy and a pet ferret with that sort of points!
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    QUICKLY FRIENDS, TO THE HYPERBOLEMOBILE!

  19. #719
    if he was right then why did millions of players return and why is there a queue on servers each night?

    stupid trol post

  20. #720
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legendaryusername View Post
    if he was right then why did millions of players return and why is there a queue on servers each night?

    stupid trol post
    The queue is due to the servers not even being near the same as retail - though, not queues every night.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Markco23 View Post
    It's so subjective... every person will respond differently to his point.

    However, there is wisdom in the fact that we were 15 years younger and therefore how we experience classic will never be what it was back then.

    Bis lists, pvp stockpiling, knowing upcoming phases... really changes how you play the game.
    Oh indeed.

    Rewind 15 years and Classic would be kicking but for everyone. Now, the 'hard' part of that you have to be patient while you know every damn step you can do. Of course, it is all subjective.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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