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  1. #61
    meh, Intel still wins out in the end

  2. #62
    that 3700X sounds amazing ! although I would probably still wait for DDR5 first ... (hopefully in 2020)



    2019 is gonna be a bad GPU year as far as Im concerned though - Nvidia wont yet have 7nm and even if these Navi leaks are true - its only ~1070-1080 perf (for $250 or less, yes, but I already had a 1080 since 2016, so idc about that) .. no new flagships to run [email protected] in 2019

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    I cannot wait until we get down to 1nm in size, imagine how insane processors will be.
    Electron Migration wont allow that to be a thing. Not without a completely different material.

    About the best you’re going to get is 5nm... and thats IF they can solve the electron Migration problem they already have at that size. I would expect (true) 7nm to be about as small as we go for 5-7 years. 5nm after that, maybe....

    And after that, itll be up to materials research, or completely different uArch - completely new designs on existing size lithography.

    Otherwise... we’re about to hit the limits of the laws of physics with existing technology.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    Electron Migration wont allow that to be a thing. Not without a completely different material.

    About the best you’re going to get is 5nm... and thats IF they can solve the electron Migration problem they already have at that size. I would expect (true) 7nm to be about as small as we go for 5-7 years. 5nm after that, maybe....

    And after that, itll be up to materials research, or completely different uArch - completely new designs on existing size lithography.

    Otherwise... we’re about to hit the limits of the laws of physics with existing technology.
    Could they use graphene?
    “If you don't believe me that is too damn bad!”

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    Intel has been trying and failing at 7nm for many years, you want me to believe in two years AMD has not only caught up to but surpassed intel on that process node and they decide to increase core count by 50% and sell it for the same price as the 2700x?

    I am not the one who needs to explain my thought process on this one champ, the people believing the leaks do lol.
    You also forget that AMD has put more R&D and teamwork with TSMC for 7nm than Intel ever did. Intel seems to think that they can just make it smaller while keeping their architecture, and my guess is that AMD made the bet that if TSMC could make a 7nm feasible, they could build an architecture around it. I would also hazard a guess that, if true, would mean that infinity was always meant to be 7nm ready. But again, this all speculation. Also, aside from die size... They have now been iterating on Zen for several years now. It should not surprise anyone that they may have solved the lagging IPC of gen 1.

    The other thought is that 7nm was originally researched for GPU, and they realized that they could make it feasible for CPU (similar to how Apple TECHNICALLY prototypled the ipad BEFORE the iphone but built the iphone first and then used the tech and lessons learned from the iphone in making the ipad.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Life-Binder View Post
    that 3700X sounds amazing ! although I would probably still wait for DDR5 first ... (hopefully in 2020)



    2019 is gonna be a bad GPU year as far as Im concerned though - Nvidia wont yet have 7nm and even if these Navi leaks are true - its only ~1070-1080 perf (for $250 or less, yes, but I already had a 1080 since 2016, so idc about that) .. no new flagships to run [email protected] in 2019
    The Navi GPU leak all ready suggests that the new flagship radeon card COULD be on par with the RTX 2070.. and yes, it would have Ray Tracing.
    "When you build it, you love it!"

  6. #66
    Intel is fucking dead for now, you have to be utterly missinformed or delued to still buy their shit.
    How do you know if someone's been playing since pre-BC? Don't worry, THEY NEVER SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT.

    "Pandaren were the most requested race in WoW by the community!!!"...yet many years later, they rank alongside the lowest played races on every online statistic, and Blizzard is making no effort whatsoever to put them in evidence in lore. Makes you think...

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Could they use graphene?
    Theyve been experimenting with it, from what has leaked out, for years. Problem being yields. Theyre abysmal, at best.

  8. #68
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowchikabow View Post

    The Navi GPU leak all ready suggests that the new flagship radeon card COULD be on par with the RTX 2070.. and yes, it would have Ray Tracing.
    But that's still a significant step down from 2080ti performance. 30% or so.

    Will it be enough for most people? Yes. But it still leaves Nvidia as the only real choice if you want super high-end GPU's

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kul Tiras View Post
    Intel is fucking dead for now, you have to be utterly missinformed or delued to still buy their shit.
    If these leaks are true, and they can OC well, Intel will be in deep shit. If they're true but can't OC well (<half of all chips getting to their 1-core speeds on all cores), Intel will still have a market for things that require frequency.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Kul Tiras View Post
    Intel is fucking dead for now, you have to be utterly missinformed or delued to still buy their shit.

    .... uh... wut?

    If you want top performance, you still go Intel. That MAY change if these rather unsupported leaks are true....

    But it aint likely.

    In a lot of industries, especially the ones where performance is the only thing that matters, money is no object. Yeah, Ryzen is a better price/performance proposition in a lot of cases... but not because they perform better than Intel.

    Theyll be happy to spend the extra cash for the highest performing part. People here are blinkered by their own anecdotal experiences and have no idea at all how large industries work.

    Now, if Ryzen 3 (Zen 2) is all that and a bag of chips... Sure. Maybe.

    But that’s still next-summer or later.

    But by all means, continue with the pointless and incorrect hyperbole.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    But that's still a significant step down from 2080ti performance. 30% or so.

    Will it be enough for most people? Yes. But it still leaves Nvidia as the only real choice if you want super high-end GPU's

    We are also only looking at the first iteration of 7nm Navi. It looks like Nvidia put all it's cards on the table all ready, when you think about it. Launching the 2080, 2080ti AND previewing Titan RX before the end of this year. The only place they will really go is backwards, maybe with 2050 or whatever. Meanwhile, Navi will be producing and iterating upward. 7nm is WICKED NEW tech, in terms of it's emergence. If they can get a GPU to market that hits Nvidia's top 3 flagship cards that fast.. I would expect and/or hope that the follow-up would push toward going head to head with 2080ti.

    More important than just performance competition.. If AMD can get even within 10% or so of a 2080 or ti.. but at a 35% or more reduced pricetag, It would be a huge setback for Nvidia. I think people, even enthusiasts would be unable to ignore the value proposition there. 1400 for a 2080ti? or 800 for something within 10 or 12% performance of that? There is no math there, all but the top 3 or 5% of gamers/enthusiasts would readily flip to that. Especially as support for legacy performers like the 980 cards starts to go away, and GTX cards go to the wayside... Navi would, if launched in the correct windows at each generation, would have little issue pulling team green players to their camp.
    "When you build it, you love it!"

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    .... uh... wut?

    If you want top performance, you still go Intel. That MAY change if these rather unsupported leaks are true....

    But it aint likely.

    In a lot of industries, especially the ones where performance is the only thing that matters, money is no object. Yeah, Ryzen is a better price/performance proposition in a lot of cases... but not because they perform better than Intel.

    Theyll be happy to spend the extra cash for the highest performing part. People here are blinkered by their own anecdotal experiences and have no idea at all how large industries work.

    Now, if Ryzen 3 (Zen 2) is all that and a bag of chips... Sure. Maybe.

    But that’s still next-summer or later.

    But by all means, continue with the pointless and incorrect hyperbole.
    I wouldn't say unsupported as research papers on chiplets and 7nm performance numbers support it quite well. What is unsupported for now is that if they are going chiplets to begin with. If they don't there's no chance these are true, but if they do, it's quite likely even.

    Money is probably not a problem, but Intel will be behind in every category if these are true. Performance, performance/watt, performance/price. Performance/watt will come increasingly hot topic in the coming months as EU is trying to push regulations on the matter, though it's more to do with cloud computing, but wouldn't be surprised if they cock it up and make it so every industry needs to focus on performance/watt.. Plus they still don't support ECC outside of Xeons.

    Industries care about one thing and one thing only, profit. If something promises them higher profits with no downsides, change will happen fast. What will likely not change that fast is the consumer market, it's still dictated by feelings and status over everything else. So if anything it's the consumers that will not care about price/performance for the most part, only the people in the know will buy the best deal and sometimes even their feelings get in the way of the best possible solution for them.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Kul Tiras View Post
    Intel is fucking dead for now, you have to be utterly missinformed or delued to still buy their shit.
    Clueless ^


    That said, if this leak is true then it will really get interesting.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowchikabow View Post
    We are also only looking at the first iteration of 7nm Navi. It looks like Nvidia put all it's cards on the table all ready, when you think about it. Launching the 2080, 2080ti AND previewing Titan RX before the end of this year. The only place they will really go is backwards, maybe with 2050 or whatever. Meanwhile, Navi will be producing and iterating upward. 7nm is WICKED NEW tech, in terms of it's emergence. If they can get a GPU to market that hits Nvidia's top 3 flagship cards that fast.. I would expect and/or hope that the follow-up would push toward going head to head with 2080ti.

    More important than just performance competition.. If AMD can get even within 10% or so of a 2080 or ti.. but at a 35% or more reduced pricetag, It would be a huge setback for Nvidia. I think people, even enthusiasts would be unable to ignore the value proposition there. 1400 for a 2080ti? or 800 for something within 10 or 12% performance of that? There is no math there, all but the top 3 or 5% of gamers/enthusiasts would readily flip to that. Especially as support for legacy performers like the 980 cards starts to go away, and GTX cards go to the wayside... Navi would, if launched in the correct windows at each generation, would have little issue pulling team green players to their camp.
    Oh yeah, Navi stands to be a huge blow to Nvidia in the price to performance category. But for some people, the price is irrelevant, and they just want the performance. If AMD can get even 2070 levels of performance, they'll siphon most of Nvidia's users away if it's at a lower price. But as long as Nvidia still has the most performance, they'll keep a spot in the enthusiast market space.

    Those things said, I'm really looking forward to where AMD is going with their 7nm. Hopefully it'll make Intel and Nvidia step up their game, and if not, well, we'll be seeing a wave of red-only systems.

  14. #74
    Just skimmed the thread but this video just posted talks about the leaks.

    w w w.youtube. com/ watch ?v=iX r7_O1v 8-c

    Don't get your hopes up

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaykos View Post
    Just skimmed the thread but this video just posted talks about the leaks.

    w w w.youtube. com/ watch ?v=iX r7_O1v 8-c

    Don't get your hopes up
    It's fun that he references the video from AdoredTV, but clearly hasn't watched it when he talks about the TDP numbers. In short it's all plausible.

    His point on 3080 pricing seems fairly solid, but the counterargument is that at 20% lower price than 2070, they simply wouldn't sell any of them due to mindshare, even at 50% price I don't see how they would sell 1 to 1 with 2070. Although I do think 250 is too low, I'd expect 300-325 as the final price.

    The most solid point is the no tech day argument, usually that thing should've been announced by now, it's a month till CES and no word on a tech day. Then again it's what AMD has did in the past and they didn't do it for Threadripper as he himself said, so who knows.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Kul Tiras View Post
    Intel is fucking dead for now, you have to be utterly missinformed or delued to still buy their shit.
    What?

    I cant tell if hes serious or delusional. Currently Intel is the king for gaming and I am not defending them at all. It is what it is.

    Yes AMD has closed that gap and has come full circle with their offerings, however look at what they had before Ryzen. They are not dethroning Intel anytime soon and if you think Intel is sitting on their hands your sadly mistaken.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by moremana View Post
    What?

    I cant tell if hes serious or delusional. Currently Intel is the king for gaming and I am not defending them at all. It is what it is.

    Yes AMD has closed that gap and has come full circle with their offerings, however look at what they had before Ryzen. They are not dethroning Intel anytime soon and if you think Intel is sitting on their hands your sadly mistaken.
    If these rumors turn out to be true intel will have nothing to compete with except for mindshare. So yes saying "dead for now" is accurate if that happens. Sure they will work on their new arch, maybe they will finally get their node shrink in order but that is not going to happen anytime soon.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by larix View Post
    If these rumors turn out to be true intel will have nothing to compete with except for mindshare. So yes saying "dead for now" is accurate if that happens. Sure they will work on their new arch, maybe they will finally get their node shrink in order but that is not going to happen anytime soon.
    AMDs IPC doesn't compare to Intels, even if they do manage to get those clocks at the rate they say, but no one knows... we will see. We only have history to guide us. Currently Intel is not dead, and when these chips come out, people will still buy Intel.

    But its all good, I hope they do compete with Intel, however, I don't believe Intel is sitting idle atm and I am taking all of this with a huge pinch of salt.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by moremana View Post
    AMDs IPC doesn't compare to Intels
    In Cinebench single core [email protected] is 4% ahead of [email protected] So yes there is a difference, but at the same time AMD is claiming Zen 2 has 13% IPC increase over Zen+. On what workloads that is still a bit unclear, but overall it should make AMD pass Intel in IPC.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    His point on 3080 pricing seems fairly solid, but the counterargument is that at 20% lower price than 2070, they simply wouldn't sell any of them due to mindshare, even at 50% price I don't see how they would sell 1 to 1 with 2070. Although I do think 250 is too low, I'd expect 300-325 as the final price.
    250$ for gtx 1080 performance isnt too low, its 3 year old tech. And AMD pulled this shit before gt200 era? Nvidia had to drop their prices in half overnight.

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