Does FFXIV Get Challenging?

[akaTheDude]

Hello, I have started playing the game and I am level 32. I know this is a very low level toon, but I have been healing 4 mans as a white mage and have had zero challenge. However, I know at this level 4 mans should be pretty easy.

So here is my question: I have watched some end game raids / 4 mans, and they all seem pretty easy. Dont stand in the telgraph etc.

I am wanting to invest time and $ into the game, but I am afraid there inst much challenge at the end game.

Am I missing something here?

[ReD-EyeD]

Not really as mechanics are pretty much the same all the time and more importantly can be easily memorized as they have almost zero randomness in them.
It's a good game, but if you're looking for some challenge there isn't much on the cap.

[RohanV]

Anything that has automatic match-making is not challenging, aside from maybe healing the last boss of The Vault.

However, at max level there are Extreme primal fights and Savage raids. Extreme primals are intermediate difficulty, and Savage raids are difficult. Both of these usually require a pre-made 8-man group.

Edit: Also low-level is very misleading in a lot of ways. In some respects level 1 - 50 is like an extended tutorial to teach people who have never played an MMO before.

[Rawrajishxc]

There's a good bit of challenging content at max level. Savage and Ultimate fights can be extremely hard but regular dungeons and EX primals(which can be hard sometimes) normally don't have too much difficulty tied to them once you learn the basic mechanics.

[Historical Tenacity]

15-50 Dungeons won't have much difficulty to them, especially since they've been out for so long and most people going into them know what's up.

Some 50 Patch dungeons / Trial fights may have wipes in them if you PuG or pre-make a group of people who hasn't done it before. Though higher item levels will smash through them all the same.

51-60 Dungeons is where you'll start seeing the occasional pug wipes. Especially with trials and if important roles don't know what to do / are undergeared. Though there are plenty of one shot mechanics to worry about for others as well. The same goes with patch dungeons and trials.

61-70 Dungeons are even harder than 51-60 and you will see more pug wipes. Again, especially with the Trials as things quickly get hectic. In addition to people start to get used to a more advanced set of rotations, resources, synergies, mechanics and so forth.

In essence, most of the casual content is much harder than the casual content of many other games. This comes with the caveat that most tab target games will become easy once you learn things -- baring the random factor of other players. "Bad players" will likely find the game frequently more devastating than what they may be used to due to a myriad of one shot mechanics among other things including rotations, positionals and so on. This also includes the LFR equivalent 24 man raid, which is entirely separate from the harder raid and its savage variants. There are still nightmares of the Wiping City (Nickname -- it's actually called the Weeping City) and I frequently see people getting one shot or doing dumb things (or the math mechanic that people are inevitably doomed on). Though when it comes to the harder content, it's moderate to fairly difficult, but probably not as unforgiving as some others once you learn things. But ultimately, there really isn't a tab target game that has difficult "hard" content once you understand the basics. So I tend to prefer the harder casual content as a personal opinion.

Most classes and their rotations are fairly complex when compared to most other tab target games, as well. They also still include such things as positionals; this is dependent on the class as some might be easier than others. While some still may have mini-games, a couple of resources to manage, a couple of different rotations, positionals, timing, procs, etc. all in one to handle... in addition to class synergies, environment mechanics and boss mechanics. It all depends on what feels right for you and what you think is a better design for your own reaction / fingers / ability and personal wants on whether more complex means better as a whole.

Then there's a bunch of optional content throughout with varying difficulty. Still hard to get to floor 200 with a PotD group, for instance.

If you're a crafter and gatherer, the competition for such can be pretty intense -- as is learning the systems, the best rotations and materia placement / penta master and the auction house game. Which, as of today, still has a fairly profitable economy without needing to do flipping. In fact, I don't think flipping even exists in the game with how things are set up. I'd imagine it being a pretty terrible way of earning gil when compared to legitimate crafting and gathering.

You'll also find that most players can't even play their preferred job optimally... which will make you a diamond in the rough if you're able to. It also inherently causes the vast majority to shy away from the hardest content.

[Rogalicus]

Most classes and their rotations are fairly complex when compared to most other tab target games, as well.

That's wrong, they are bloated, yeah, but at the same time completely linear due to combos and strict CD timing. There's nothing complex in a rotation where you press the same buttons in the same order every fight.

[Irian]

It depends on what your definition of challenging is.

I find WoW fights even on mythic (when I've done them with my super casual guild in recent memory, take this with a grain of salt) to be fairly forgiving to the individual player. There's a lot of shit happening but the focus is almost solely on the boss, given that WoW rotations as a whole are fairly idiot proof and even minmaxing with some classes doesn't yield a huge result. The bottom floor of players is so low because there's a group of players in WoW that are so atrociously bad at the game that even the most basic of expectations is beyond them.

In FFXIV the skill floor is much higher because there are some fights like two particular trial bosses mandatory for the story that will actually wipe pugs, and often, if people aren't paying attention and obeying every mechanic. The fights are very predictable and generally well telegraphed but you also as a result often don't have much time to respond to them. Savage raiding isn't exactly Mythic G'huun but it's definitely harder than early M Uldir bosses, generally, and there's a way bigger pressure on the individual over the group because of an 8-player roster.

The classes as a whole are also way more difficult than WoW's, filling out easily 3-4 rows of keybinds of abilities that you're gonna need to do serious content. The GCD weaving also makes the combat as fast if not faster than WoW's if you're trying to get everything out of your class, with GCD abilities almost being like a metronome for the rest of your rotation. Some classes are very rigidly rotational like Dragoon, Summoner, Samurai and Monk which end up being fairly simple once you memorize the pattern of your single target rotation, but others are proc-based and reactive like Black Mage, Red Mage, Machinist and Bard. Melee as a whole in this game are more methodical with a higher skill floor but are easy to commit to muscle memory with practice.

Then there's the two big bosses, Ultimate Coil and Weapon's Refrain, which are frankly leagues above anything I've done in WoW in recent memory in difficulty. They require pretty much near-perfect execution from the entire party, as well as a significant level of DPS from both healers and tanks to complete, combined with absurdly tight mechanics that will almost all one-shot you.

In my eyes, I think which one people would find harder at the most bleeding edge would depend on the way you approach difficult stuff. FFXIV demands perfect or near-perfect rotational execution for fairly predictable fights and WoW has more random reactive elements, spread across 20 players, with less pressure on the individuals.

[Deleted]

It depends on what your definition of challenging is.

I find WoW fights even on mythic (when I've done them with my super casual guild in recent memory, take this with a grain of salt) to be fairly forgiving to the individual player. There's a lot of shit happening but the focus is almost solely on the boss, given that WoW rotations as a whole are fairly idiot proof and even minmaxing with some classes doesn't yield a huge result. The bottom floor of players is so low because there's a group of players in WoW that are so atrociously bad at the game that even the most basic of expectations is beyond them.

In FFXIV the skill floor is much higher because there are some fights like two particular trial bosses mandatory for the story that will actually wipe pugs, and often, if people aren't paying attention and obeying every mechanic. The fights are very predictable and generally well telegraphed but you also as a result often don't have much time to respond to them. Savage raiding isn't exactly Mythic G'huun but it's definitely harder than early M Uldir bosses, generally, and there's a way bigger pressure on the individual over the group because of an 8-player roster.

The classes as a whole are also way more difficult than WoW's, filling out easily 3-4 rows of keybinds of abilities that you're gonna need to do serious content. The GCD weaving also makes the combat as fast if not faster than WoW's if you're trying to get everything out of your class, with GCD abilities almost being like a metronome for the rest of your rotation. Some classes are very rigidly rotational like Dragoon, Summoner, Samurai and Monk which end up being fairly simple once you memorize the pattern of your single target rotation, but others are proc-based and reactive like Black Mage, Red Mage, Machinist and Bard. Melee as a whole in this game are more methodical with a higher skill floor but are easy to commit to muscle memory with practice.

Then there's the two big bosses, Ultimate Coil and Weapon's Refrain, which are frankly leagues above anything I've done in WoW in recent memory in difficulty. They require pretty much near-perfect execution from the entire party, as well as a significant level of DPS from both healers and tanks to complete, combined with absurdly tight mechanics that will almost all one-shot you.

In my eyes, I think which one people would find harder at the most bleeding edge would depend on the way you approach difficult stuff. FFXIV demands perfect or near-perfect rotational execution for fairly predictable fights and WoW has more random reactive elements, spread across 20 players, with less pressure on the individuals.

I've never did Ultimate and Savage raids as those are beyond me. (And I'm fine with that) So for me the alpha and omega of FFXIV fights is Nael in Second Coil Turn 4.

That shit can wipe you even with a 20 levels higher unsynched party if you don't do perfectly on the second phase (And a few mechanics from the third)

[akaTheDude]

OK let me ask this. I am a WoW mythic 1-10 player(not 10+). Is it worth me leveling to do end game content in FFXIV? I hope the answer is yes, but before I devote 100 hours,I have to know.......

[Rogalicus]

OK let me ask this. I am a WoW mythic 1-10 player(not 10+). Is it worth me leveling to do end game content in FFXIV? I hope the answer is yes, but before I devote 100 hours,I have to know.......

No, dungeon content is boring and outdated (in terms of difficulty and rewards) the same moment it comes out.

[Zafire]

OK let me ask this. I am a WoW mythic 1-10 player(not 10+). Is it worth me leveling to do end game content in FFXIV? I hope the answer is yes, but before I devote 100 hours,I have to know.......

Savage content in FFXIV is much harder than Mythic 1-10 imo.

If you don't want to do 8-man savage raids you'll get bored of the game in a few months at max level.

[RohanV]

OK let me ask this. I am a WoW mythic 1-10 player(not 10+). Is it worth me leveling to do end game content in FFXIV? I hope the answer is yes, but before I devote 100 hours,I have to know.......

I would say no. There's basically 2 paths in FFXIV:

* Easy path is running automatic matchmaking content for currency to gear up.
* Hard path is running raid content in pre-made groups, this is closer to late Heroic/early Mythic raiding in WoW.

There's no real middle path like lower Mythic Keystones, or Normal/early Heroic mode raiding.

[shadowmatrix]

The class boost is fairly cheap comparable to WOW $25 I think. It does get more challenging, I swap between the two when there are low point in one of them.

$25 for class level boost to level 60, only applies to one class
$25.50 to get 3 retainers to level 60
$25 for a story boost to reach Stormblood content
$75.50 total not including tax

So a fresh boost is $50 minimum.

[Tehcheat]

Game will be challenging enough for you if you just do M+ (1-10) in WoW. Especially as already stated if you do Savage/Ex 8 man content.

[Ealyssa]

OK let me ask this. I am a WoW mythic 1-10 player(not 10+). Is it worth me leveling to do end game content in FFXIV? I hope the answer is yes, but before I devote 100 hours,I have to know.......

1-10 are boringly easy. You'll be fine in FF XIV.

[andrewjoy]

Not really as mechanics are pretty much the same all the time and more importantly can be easily memorized as they have almost zero randomness in them.
It's a good game, but if you're looking for some challenge there isn't much on the cap.

Do the extreme primals without outgearing them and then come and tell me its not a challenge!

[ReD-EyeD]

Do the extreme primals without outgearing them and then come and tell me its not a challenge!

With adequate people? Easily.
I mean even LFR Ghuun is VERY challenging with your average LFR raiders, especially on the last day of the week. Doesn't mean it's a challenging encounter by itself in the first place.

[Katchii]

OK let me ask this. I am a WoW mythic 1-10 player(not 10+). Is it worth me leveling to do end game content in FFXIV? I hope the answer is yes, but before I devote 100 hours,I have to know.......

Savage and Ultimate raids provide challenge, everything else is pretty easy and straight forward.

That said, if you're intent is to play FFXIV for the challenge, you're looking at the "wrong" game because that's just simply not the focus of it. You can find it if you're looking for it, but there's not a lot.

[akaTheDude]

Savage and Ultimate raids provide challenge, everything else is pretty easy and straight forward.

That said, if you're intent is to play FFXIV for the challenge, you're looking at the "wrong" game because that's just simply not the focus of it. You can find it if you're looking for it, but there's not a lot.

Thank you, this what I was needing to know.