Well here we go again, Blizzard are stretching that taffy...

[Doffen]

I take it you didn't bother to even read anything of the conversation going on. We were arguing FACTS that I proved him wrong at every turn. Before you jump into a conversation that doesn't involve you, you might want to take the time to actually read what's being said.

I did, 3 pages back. Nothing constructive whatsoever.

[Zyky]

I did, 3 pages back. Nothing constructive whatsoever.

We were debating facts, not opinions, so obviously you didn't read anything. And for some reason felt the need to jump into a conversation that had nothing to do with you and be disrespectful.

[Doffen]

We were debating facts, not opinions, so obviously you didn't read anything. And for some reason felt the need to jump into a conversation that had nothing to do with you and be disrespectful.

It was because you were disrespectful. Telling people they are white-knight trash when they don't agree with you is, you know, disrespectful. And you didn't only do it once, but three times.

Learn some respect before you start calling out others for being disrespectful.

And anyone can jump in whenever they want to join the discussion.

[Zyky]

It was because you were disrespectful. Telling people they are white-knight trash when they don't agree with you is, you know, disrespectful. And you didn't only do it once, but three times.

Learn some respect before you start calling out others for being disrespectful.

They don't have to agree with me, but in this situation if you're not agreeing with the FACTS, you are white knighting a garbage system, which is exactly what I said. I didn't call him trash, I said he's a white knight defending trash systems.

Except you're the one failing, I've proven you wrong at every turn you attempt(and fail) to take. So yes, you are an actual White Knight defending Blizzard for absolutely trash systems.

There's the proof, you might want to learn how to read a whole post before make a rant about disrespect, when you're the only person being disrespectful right now.

[Doffen]

They don't have to agree with me, but in this situation if you're not agreeing with the FACTS, you are white knighting a garbage system, which is exactly what I said. I didn't call him trash, I said he's a white knight defending trash systems.



There's the proof, you might want to learn how to read a whole post before make a rant about disrespect, when you're the only person being disrespectful right now.

Your argument is failing and now you're scrambling to find anything to stay up. While I applaud your show of desperation, it might be time to stop before you look like an even bigger fool.

Your arguments literally hold no water and it's pretty sad that you keep trying so desperately to be right, but at every turn you're wrong.

People like you, who are now showing your white knighting of the system are what's wrong and why it takes far too long for changes to happen in the game.

Except you're the one failing, I've proven you wrong at every turn you attempt(and fail) to take. So yes, you are an actual White Knight defending Blizzard for absolutely trash systems.

End of discussion.

[Knaar]

Were you really expecting for do a single M+, gain enough tokens to buy a piece of gear?

Let me tell you, back in my days, we had to farm Valor points from multiple sources, making sure we hit the weekly cap each time, for a few weeks to be able to buy one piece of gear that had the same or decent ilvl.
Now you want to play for 30 minutes and be able to buy really good gear? Get real... this is a mmo, not Diablo 3.

[Doffen]

Were you really expecting for do a single M+, gain enough tokens to buy a piece of gear?

Let me tell you, back in my days, we had to farm Valor points from multiple sources, making sure we hit the weekly cap each time, for a few weeks to be able to buy one piece of gear that had the same or decent ilvl.
Now you want to play for 30 minutes and be able to buy really good gear? Get real... this is a mmo, not Diablo 3.

Yeah. It is sad really. Few weeks "grinding"(not really) for a good upgrade is good! People can't really complain about it.

[Knaar]

Sure now a day a few weeks to get one piece of loot is too much, but getting one as fast as the OP wants? nah, never.

[Zyky]

End of discussion.

And literally no where did I say he was trash, like you attempted to claim, so really what you're saying is:

I have no idea how to read and I love interjecting myself into conversations that don't include me. I pick up little words here and there, but I have no idea how to read full sentences.

Got it. Have a great life with your limited reading ability.

[Otimus]

Why can't they just introduce badges back in, and make them sensible, along with the option to upgrade them like in MoP? Seriously, what was wrong with that and why are they absolutely, 100% unwilling to do anything like that ever again, and anything they've tried is obscenely grindy?

I'd personally love to have reasons to run LFD past the opening week of the expansion again, or LFR more than once to just see it. That was my problem with Legion and WoD, too. As a really casual player, there's very little incentive to do anything past the first couple of weeks because nothing casual is actually granting any carrots on sticks. The way WOTLK and MOP (daily requirements to unlock gear aside) did it was perfect. I want that back Instead, it seems like anyone that isn't a heroic or mythic raider or a hardcore Mythic+ player is stuck on a gigantic, unfun, worthless mega-ultra-super-tyrannical sized grind.

Hell, something like the MoP or WoD legendary (If it'll make people not whine, it doesn't have to be legendary colored) would be a boon for me. Something to drive me into wanting to bother with content more than once would be great. (Even artifacts, though a mediocre motivator in the longer run, in the shorter run, were way better of a motivator than what we have now.)

But who am I kidding! None of this will change, I'll probably be insulted for even wanting it. Whatever. I'll just keep subbing when new content drops, unsub when I've spent it. That's about all I can expect from the game going forward for me. I'm not catered to, and I'm not going to whine about it.

[Gorillaz]

It was because you were disrespectful. Telling people they are white-knight trash when they don't agree with you is, you know, disrespectful. And you didn't only do it once, but three times.

Learn some respect before you start calling out others for being disrespectful.

And anyone can jump in whenever they want to join the discussion.

You're just projecting now.

Imagine trying to form an argument with no basis against one of the most prominent members of the Demon Hunter theory-crafting community. A calm, collected poster who has submitted hundreds of pages of feedback and only wants the game to get better.

[Doffen]

You're just projecting now.

Imagine trying to form an argument with no basis against one of the most prominent members of the Demon Hunter theory-crafting community. A calm, collected poster who has submitted hundreds of pages of feedback and only wants the game to get better.

Doesn't matter if someone are calm if they are insulting in the same sentence.

Imagine just projecting to try to wave off insults of another users. Embarrassing.

[Gorillaz]

Doesn't matter if someone are calm if they are insulting in the same sentence.

Imagine just projecting to try to wave off insults of another users. Embarrassing.

From what I can see he hasn't insulted anyone. He presented you and whoever the other poster was with facts that you have repeatedly ignored for whatever reason. I don't know why you're being so aggressive.

[Deleted]

That's why I think that 8.1 brings nothing (of value) to the table other than the raid(s). Not enough to bring me back, that's for sure.

8.1 doesn't even bring new raids. That's 8.1.5.
8.1 literally has a 5 minute warfront questline, and a new warfront to go along with it.
Literally gating content that can be completed in 5 minutes.

[azka]

I believe there are two types of players.

On the one hand, you have those who see changes in the system. If they can, they give feedback in a way that can be useful for the developers. Once the system is implemented, they research what will work better for them and their group and try their best to farm whatever is needed to become competitive.

On the other hand is the rest, like the OP.

[Doffen]

From what I can see he hasn't insulted anyone. He presented you and whoever the other poster was with facts that you have repeatedly ignored for whatever reason. I don't know why you're being so aggressive.

Well this just proves that you haven't read anything at all the last 5 pages.

Talking about projecting.

[Soon-TM]

I believe there are two types of players.

On the one hand, you have those who see changes in the system. If they can, they give feedback in a way that can be useful for the developers. Once the system is implemented, they research what will work better for them and their group and try their best to farm whatever is needed to become competitive.

On the other hand is the rest, like the OP.

And the conclusion is that Blizz doesn't listen to either group, so in the end it's all the same.

[CynicalPenguin]

Ah yes, BIS gear that is gonna get nerfed in a week after getting it because it was slightly too op.

Blizzard fucking nerfed Test of Might THREE times, making it go from BIS to worst trait.

[trapmaster]

Adding layer of rngs behind rngs, making us work more toward to rngs. Umm Just NO.

[Alkizon]

Fleugen
1) No, this isn't the badge system. The badge system gave you options for catch up gear, but not a full gearset, right away so long as you had time to grind out the badges for it. This system has nothing for someone who spends time on it - You can only get so much currency a week, and not enough for it to be worthwhile to you that week. You ALSO had the 'upgraded' badges in Wrath and Cata, which allowed you to buy further items, but were more limited in stature like today's system - but still had varying costs, so one piece was affordable after 2 weeks, and others took more time.

Ex.: If I was a warrior gearing up in Wrath around ICC, I had Triumph badges which I could farm through heroic dungeons which would get me my entire 232 tier set, could be traded for conquest badges to get me a belt, and could be traded for Valor badges to get me bracers and a ranged weapon - And I could do ALL of this in one week while also earning 2 Frost badges once daily for ICC-level gear, given that I had the time to do so all without a single ounce of RNG for any of those items. So if I was, for example, working from 1:30 PM to 10 PM and went home to sleep only to wake up for work again until the weekend, I could sit down on the weekend and grind until I was geared and be done in one weekend.

Explain to me how the system proposed in 8.1 allows me to do anything of the sort? Because A) It only works for Azerite gear, so 3 total gear slots. B) It's rife with RNG, with the only viable option for getting ANY gear out of the system at all being completely RNG. C) Has no option for people like me, who don't want to log in and play each and every day, multiple hours a day.

2) Everyone hates Azerite gear. They will hate it MORE when you feel more tempted to gamble for azerite gear than buy a specific piece outright. It feels terrible, even when you get the right piece. It will not make Azerite gear feel better as a system, since it's not different from any other piece of azerite gear that you can currently get - It just is a different way to get it.

--- snip (for I don't fully agree with this part) ---

The reason the badge system was nice was because the gear you got was the same level of gear you got in raids, and you could guarantee which piece you were buying at any given time so there WAS NO RNG tied into it (Hence why people want it back in the RNGfest of BfA) - If you needed a Trinket, you knew where to get it and exactly how many bosses you would need to kill to do so. And, most importantly, if you wanted that piece today, you could sit and grind until that piece was in your hands. You didn't just do a dungeon, say "welp, that's all I can get for the week" and log out.

But in addition, the gear was always slightly worse stat/use-wise, so by raiding, the badges themselves became useless. The idea is to have progression in the game. There's no progression if you get the same shit in the beginning and end of the game.

Now I have a fairly detailed and almost complete description of badge system. Thx, man. You saved me quite a lot of time. I don't quite agree with third point for the most part because there were not very lucky people from main team who even didn’t get pieces for participating in raids (either they were unlucky or it was secondary role for them, which means their priority was below). And they had opportunity to dress their secondary role or reinforce/compensate loot failures for main one with such system. Moreover stats/characteristics customization was still relevant and items from raid didn't always suit everyone for this parameter, but they had more choice with badges (ex. offset pieces). That's all, so there was a sense for them in heroic dungeons. Ie, I understand why you are mistaken, this is a matter of personal experience (ingenuity in solving private/personal problems and difficulties), there is nothing much terrible here.

As for discussed system, without looking at some advantage over original one, there remain two main giants problems: RNG (gamble part = still no control, nothing has changed in this sence) and AA design itself (which we have already discussed enough +/+/+/+/+). BUT! I'm not sure that fully understand it, so I'm not going to make any serious statements.

Did I understand correctly that new system isn't the only way to get it, which means everything can go to ashes, just like apexes during WoD (there were too many easy/fast mined enough competitive&forge gear (+BfA's ilvl scaling) that made entire compilation system not effective and useless even for alts, and in the end, only “cosmetic” stuff was where people spended it) and about RNG (this is taken from this thread already; but due to what is written in news, I somehow missed/didn't catch this moment)?

- - - Updated - - -

Fleugen
It won't be so much like Apexis in WoD, as that was able to be farmed endlessly if you had enough desire to do so.

Oh so it's in some way even worse than WoD's for adding original badge time gate mechanic, which makes it less attractive, especially if you have a specific goal, moreover, it requires sufficiently large labor costs to get at least some benefit, which means this is also not such an option for secondary role/alts.

The whole system begin to look like something kind of mountain of crap in form of ice cream with cherry on a top
(not literally but metaphorically)

ps. Thx one more time. Looks like I get it.