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  1. #1
    Over 9000! Saverem's Avatar
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    Are Eles really going to be "OP" for arenas in 8.1?

    I've seen a bunch of threads saying Eles are getting some great Lasso buffs that'll make them super good. Lasso will be doing a 6s stun and 48% of the target's HP during that time.

    However, can that ONE PvP trait really make them good? From what I can see that Lasso is going to be pretty tricky to get off and come with a shit load of limitations.

    For one it's a stun that will DR with other stuns. So it's DR'd by half, that's only a 3s stun that'll only do 24% damage. It can also be DR'd by Orcs, broken by PvP trainket/Human racial. It's also a magic debuff on the target which can be dispelled by the healer. If they put it on the healer, it's still a channeled ability that can be interrupted by the DPS.

    Meanwhile SPs are getting a similar ability without DRing and Aff has had that shit for months with Drain Life and were always mediocre.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
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  2. #2
    Been hearing that Marks are going to nuke people. Havent heard too much about any other range looking to be OP. Most people are saying its going to be a melee fest with DKs looking very strong in 8.1

  3. #3
    3x Lava Shock still going to rule as they aren't fully affected by the 15% ES nerf.

    Then you get Call the Thunder and Earthen Attunement, raising your max MS to 180(!) with ES just costing 50, meaning you are bound to to get at least two 2sec stuns out Earthfury(Doesn't share DR with Lightning Lasso).
    Alternatively you can grab Aftershock and spam the shit out of Earth shock, with 3 safe ES, you are going to get some procs.

    Then, you can pick up Master of the Elements for free basically, as neither Liquid Magma nor Storm Elemental are any good in PvP.
    And the talent was already "okay" with ES interaction, it's going to be even crazier with Stormkeeper.

    Further below you can either go for Surge of Power, get the LB Empowerment + Stormkeeper, leading to Overload RNG.
    Elsewise you can grab Icefury for a bit more sustained pressure and decent MS generation even while focused.

    Lightning Lasso is just awesome against comps without a lot of interrupts, you just delete 48% of someones HP over 6 seconds, unless the enemy can interrupt that on a 30sec CD (which is basically every 3rd interrupt).
    The fact that you can move while channeling Lightning Lasso makes it quite OP, you can just run LoS people while channeling their mates to death.

    Can't say which Talent setup will pull through, but Surge of Power will most likely be the contender against Caster comps, whereas vs. melee you just go Icefury.
    For the Tier two row, no idea, Call the Thunder or Aftershock might pull through.

    One thing is certain: I will enjoy Elemental in random bg's a lot more than previously.
    The defense in 1vs.1 was already quite bonkers if you have Spiritwolf, Spectral Recovery and 2-3 Alpha Pack trait.
    Dying? Just go in GW, find a pillar like object and run around it until the enemy gives up or reinforcement shows up.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2018-12-10 at 09:40 PM.

  4. #4
    PvP talent Earthfury removed.

    I'm out.

  5. #5
    Lasso Buff (48% Player HP DMG)
    Earthfury 2s Stun removed (RIP)
    Flame Shock 24s Duration (Up from 18s. Means 4 Debuffs at the same time. With Surge of Power 5 Dots)
    Max MS potentially extended to 160 (PVP Talent Nerf from 50 to 30 and new Talent with 30 MS)

    Earth Shock Dmg Decreased. Rest buffed. Overall DPS Buff.

    I think they buffed Ele, but not to the OP part.
    Last edited by dudu; 2018-12-11 at 12:45 PM.

  6. #6
    Tbh, %HP Damage + Stun is retarded design, I can only see it hotfix nerfed soon enough after patch goes live.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans therealstegblob's Avatar
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    Really stupid design, but what else do you expect from WoW PvP.

    I think it'll be OP in a super meta form because the damage it deals if you eat the entire stun duration is massive and would leave most people dead, so it absolutely forces you to use a stun break (which is the idea behind the ability). This means an Ele Shaman team can dictate when the enemy uses their trinket better.

    WoW PvP is absolutely fucking horrible, though.
    i am not the real stegblob. My blog where I review books and crap.

  8. #8
    30sec CD .. Interrupt it!

    What should be scary if Stormkeeper+Lightning

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    This means an Ele Shaman team can dictate when the enemy uses their trinket better.
    Rogues can do that since they got Smoke Bomb.

    If you get bombed while your Trinket is on CD, you are close to dead against any decent RMP, unless your class has nondispellable immunities (not bound to save you however).

    And Smoke bomb can't be dispelled,interrupted or has a DR.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans therealstegblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Rogues can do that since they got Smoke Bomb.

    If you get bombed while your Trinket is on CD, you are close to dead against any decent RMP, unless your class has nondispellable immunities (not bound to save you however).

    And Smoke bomb can't be dispelled,interrupted or has a DR.
    Smoke bomb also doesn't make you take half your health in damage. I mean, Smoke Bomb is really great and all and kind of similar to this, but at least you can try to ride out the CC if you have enough hp/defensives. I don't think anyone could survive being CC'd and focused for 6 seconds while also taking almost half their health in damage.

    I mean this is all just hypothetical "perfect moments" anyways, because WoW arena PvP is slow as fuck no matter how OP a few abilities are.
    i am not the real stegblob. My blog where I review books and crap.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    Smoke bomb also doesn't make you take half your health in damage.
    Yeah, but the Assa Rogue does.

    If you have 160k Hp, Lightning Lasso roughly does 9.6k Dps, barring any passives reducing (magic) damage taken or Versatility.
    9,6k Dps is really not that much, especially if you try to kill a target.

    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    I mean, Smoke Bomb is really great and all and kind of similar to this, but at least you can try to ride out the CC if you have enough hp/defensives. I don't think anyone could survive being CC'd and focused for 6 seconds while also taking almost half their health in damage.
    No Rogue uses Smoke Bomb without Kidney Shot, which also happens to last 6 seconds.

    Lightning Lasso is quite strong without question, but it is counterable, any CC, any interrupt, any dispel instantly cancels the effect.

    The problematic part in my opinion is its rather low CD, with 30 seconds you can use it in a rather forgetful manner and just come back 30 seconds later.

    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    I mean this is all just hypothetical "perfect moments" anyways, because WoW arena PvP is slow as fuck no matter how OP a few abilities are.
    Fights against Rogue teams, particular RMP, are extremely scripted in my opinion.

    It really turns just into a trading off CD's and CC spells, if you are forced to use your CD's at the wrong moment, the game will very often collapse within the next 10-20 seconds.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans therealstegblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Yeah, but the Assa Rogue does.
    Okay I don't usually lower myself to even respond to you most of the time and it's pretty clear you absolutely and totally pathetically fail to grasp even the most simple of concepts so I'm going to pop you on the ignore list after this but let me just respond one more time and retread what I have already spelled out thus far.

    That's great that the Rogue is going to do a bunch of damage. Know what isn't doing additional damage, though? The Smoke Bomb. Lasso is providing a huge chunk of DPS by itself, meaning it's like two Assassination rogues are going full hambone on you.

    If you have 160k Hp, Lightning Lasso roughly does 9.6k Dps, barring any passives reducing (magic) damage taken or Versatility.
    9,6k Dps is really not that much, especially if you try to kill a target.
    I dunno what toilet you smoke out of, but 9.6k DPS from a passive 6 second-long stun is fucking massive no matter how you try to downplay it.

    No Rogue uses Smoke Bomb without Kidney Shot, which also happens to last 6 seconds.
    Apparently you're not a very good player then, because Smoke Bomb can be used in many clutch moments to simply interrupt a heal and extend kill window by a few needed moments. It's not mandatory to always use it on a full Kidney Shot; however, this is beside the point.

    Kidney Shot isn't providing external DPS, nor is Lasso. Yeah, Lasso by itself isn't going to kill anyone. But when you Lasso the healer and then start pressuring them, they're going to have to trinket, they will not have a choice. They will die if they don't. A lot of times you're going to need to trinket out of Smoke Bomb, but at least you have some chance of surviving burst without a trinket, so it's not quite the same thing.

    Lightning Lasso is quite strong without question, but it is counterable, any CC, any interrupt, any dispel instantly cancels the effect.
    Which is why I'm talking about Lasso in some sort of 'perfect set up' situation. If you can't stop the lasso and it happens, you'll have to use your trinket.

    Fights against Rogue teams, particular RMP, are extremely scripted in my opinion.

    It really turns just into a trading off CD's and CC spells, if you are forced to use your CD's at the wrong moment, the game will very often collapse within the next 10-20 seconds.
    Of course they're scripted. Every engagement in WoW is just generically trading CDs. If no one messes up and both teams are running a competitive comp, you get matches that end up lasting for 10 minutes. How many boring, uneventful slog matches happen every single time there's a "pro" tournament? It's neigh un-fucking-watchable.

    Toodles.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    That's great that the Rogue is going to do a bunch of damage. Know what isn't doing additional damage, though? The Smoke Bomb. Lasso is providing a huge chunk of DPS by itself, meaning it's like two Assassination rogues are going full hambone on you.
    And what are you doing while Lasso is active?
    Channel Lasso, exactly.

    It's not like Lightning Lasso is a totem and you're free to do whatever you want while the spell is active.

    What in the world is the difference between a Rogue stunning you for 6 seconds and taking 48% of your HP or an Ele channeling a spell that stuns you and takes 48% of your HP?
    There is none, except you can stop both the stun and damage via dispel or literally anything that interrupts spellcasting.

    Seriously, you look at this spell, read "48%" and just turned your brain off.

    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    It's not mandatory to always use it on a full Kidney Shot; however, this is beside the point.
    Okay, my bad that i failed to add "if you're trying to set up a kill" or do you see rogues just using Smoke bomb out of the blue and hoping that people remain in it for the heck of it?

    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    Kidney Shot isn't providing external DPS, nor is Lasso.
    Isn't there a talent that applies a DoT when you use Kidney?
    Which basically any Rogue takes?
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2018-12-11 at 06:04 PM.

  14. #14
    Over 9000! Saverem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    The fact that you can move while channeling Lightning Lasso makes it quite OP, you can just run LoS people while channeling their mates to death.
    I'd say that is the only thing that might give it hope. I can see Shamans begin the channel on it on the healer and then los behind a pillar to avoid getting interrupted/CC'd.

    Only thing is that good teams will probably stick to Eles like glue because of this. Maybe Ele/Fire Mage/H Priest will actually be a good comp because all 3 of those classes require being babysat in order to stop their big bursts or heals. Not sitting on H Priest? That's a cheap 65% HP heal. Not sitting on Fire Mage? That's a shit load of Greater Pyros and sheeps. Not sitting on the Ele? That's also a shit load of burst and Lasso.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

  15. #15
    People still crying really? Shamans are freaking awesome now theyr are toping meters in everything....

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raia View Post
    People still crying really? Shamans are freaking awesome now theyr are toping meters in everything....
    Your evidence?

  17. #17
    I find quite pathetic that arguments defending Lasso in its current form basically boil to "yeah but you have partners to kick it!" while other forms of PVP exist in this game that do matter and must be taken in account for balance and counterplay, such as 1v1 world pvp skirmishes and bronze to gold skill bracket in arenas and BGs.

    Nobody sane would release a spell that deals half max hp damage while stunning the opponent with a 30 sec CD (except Blizzard retarded designers of course, but that's on par for BFA). Not to mention they made it undispellable and allows movement while casting. That makes it an overbudget and hilariously overpowered PVP talent compared to all other choices available to Ele. Even Greater Pyro is one order of magnitude less overpowered than the new version of Lasso.

    In other words, stop trying to buff specs by introducing retarded and overpowered gimmicks, buff their core kit.
    Last edited by MrCool; 2018-12-12 at 11:25 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Raia View Post
    People still crying really? Shamans are freaking awesome now theyr are toping meters in everything....
    lol

    ...

    lol

  19. #19
    well lasso is going to be hillariously OP if your team is sleeping over their keyboards...

    otherwise it's fairly manageable, be it with interrupts, trinkets, cc, dispels

    the ES strun which did not DR with other stuns was half the reason to bring ele in your team... stunning people after kidney shots and such... most people who said ele's going to be OP missed the fact that it got REMOVED

    but then stormkeeper is now real burst

    i doubt it will be OP but it will be good imo
    Last edited by Cyanu; 2018-12-12 at 03:42 PM.

  20. #20
    You've got to be dreaming if you think elemental will be OP, their maelstrom generation kills the spec.

    Even if by some miracle they did start topping the arena you think Blizzard wouldn't nerf them back down to the ground?

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