8.1 for Druids

[Druidzorz]

Ok here's the most recent week

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...=7&dataset=100

fetid is the only fight where feral break above the 50% mark

[-aiko-]

Why would you ever look at max Mythic parses?

[Druidzorz]

Why would you ever look at max Mythic parses?

Because you compare the best to the best

on 99th, taloc/fetid only ones above

95 only ghuun/fetid

See the trend? If you think feral is fine after the 7% buff you're part of the problem.

[Malmmoc]

Personally, I think what "Max" tells you, over the categories below it, is which specs benefit the most from insane rng. Not all specs get the same mileage from rng, even though all are affected to some degree.

[-aiko-]

Because you compare the best to the best

No, no you don't. That just isn't how this works.

See the trend? If you think feral is fine after the 7% buff you're part of the problem.

/sigh
The problem is not our DPS. It's how we deal it. I've already said this throughout multiple threads, but our single target damage is beyond fine. Our problem is being a ramp-up spec at the end of a tier that doesn't have fights that accommodate ramp-up specs. The fights are already geared more towards burst specs, and with kill times being so short since we're so geared the problem is amplified.

If they had buffed us by, say, 20% instead of 7% we'd still struggle on the fights we struggle on but would skyrocket on fights like Fetid Devourer. What they really, really need to do is buff Berserk to make it a real DPS cooldown, and to make Incarn stronger. In fact, our talents in general need to be given another look because 8.1 shoehorned us into a single build. We lose way too much dps by picking other talents.

At the end of the day you're not wrong that Feral is in a bind. But trying to make it about pure DPS doesn't help our case...we don't need damage buffs, we need the option to distribute our damage in different ways. If they keep giving us bandaid, flat buffs our core problems won't be resolved and we'll just end up being OP and nerfed again.

[exochaft]

/sigh
The problem is not our DPS. It's how we deal it. I've already said this throughout multiple threads, but our single target damage is beyond fine. Our problem is being a ramp-up spec at the end of a tier that doesn't have fights that accommodate ramp-up specs. The fights are already geared more towards burst specs, and with kill times being so short since we're so geared the problem is amplified.

That's the huge problem with Uldir parses in general, as it promotes classes with burst DPS capacity, whether in the form of ST burst windows, add cleave, or burst AoE... which Feral doesn't have. When it comes to ST boss DPS, which generally is the least sexy thing to look at on an encounter when there's adds everywhere, Feral does really well as long as they can stay on the boss the entire fight. There are certainly some outlying specs that do well in any situation, but Blizz has never nailed down the "class/spec niche where everyone has strengths and weaknesses" perfectly... and they secretly love rogues too much.

Also, looking at max parses is never a good idea, as those ranks are usually a product of a group's effort to make that parse as good as possible, potentially at the expense of proper execution (such as having only one person DPS adds to pad their rank). Also, it's a product of how long the encounter lasts and the relationship between the length of fight and the CD's of the spec/class. Yes, luck is also a major factor. If you want to look at the top parses to see how they did well and executed their rotations, that's perfectly fine, but be wary of cheese strats to pad numbers.

*edit* - I should mention that I would utilize a Feral as a method of pushing boss damage, as any guild trying to push progression will eventually reach a point where they have to figure out how many DPS stay on the boss and how many focus on killing adds. Unless some extreme situation occurred or the fight designed allowed/required it, I'd never put Feral on adds duty due to the ramp-up time involved. The Feral wouldn't look sexy on parses most likely, but they will have made the difference between a wipe and a kill, and that's what really matters.

[Yhcti]

I still miss shrooms

[Druidzorz]

If you're not balancing around the current raid tier you're basically doing nothing. Your argument is sad, just like when people argue about bloodtalons being good. The talent is of a terrible design but the vocal minority want to keep it.

[Chemii]

If you're not balancing around the current raid tier you're basically doing nothing. Your argument is sad, just like when people argue about bloodtalons being good. The talent is of a terrible design but the vocal minority want to keep it.

Balance and mechanics are not the same thing.

[Druidzorz]

Balance and mechanics are not the same thing.

you need to balance specs around the content you are giving them. what is with the feral community being so stubborn

[-aiko-]

Nobody is being stubborn. You make it sound like we're all arguing that Feral is in a great spot.

That isn't what is being argued. The point being made is that Feral single target DPS is not bad. We just aren't able to reach our DPS potential because of how our spec works. Which, as I've already stated, is a problem this tier and possibly going into Dazar'alor. So I've given possible solutions I hope Blizzard considers.

Saying "Feral DPS is shit, look at these very specific logs I chose to skew the argument in my favor" doesn't help anyone. We don't need more flat damage buffs.

[Nasuuna]

Hollar at me when bloodtalons is gone

Imma just be over on my wotlk server playing my feral (lost fucking DBW 77-78 on tuesday -_-)

[Chemii]

you need to balance specs around the content you are giving them. what is with the feral community being so stubborn

If you can't understand that it's not a numbers problem then I don't know what else to say.

As a theoretical example if a melee class has a swing timer of 5 minutes but it's the hardest hitting ability in game, lets say enough to 1 shot a boss. Do you really think they will be top of the DPS meters?

How many buffs to that damage would it need to make it so? - Lets be real damage buffs would do nothing to help in that scenario. While a little extreme Feral is in the same boat.

The numbers are totally acceptable but the way you apply damage in a given scenario makes it weak. It's mechanics, not numbers.

[Yhcti]

Buffing PvE without impacting PvP is fairly difficult. Feral still does a lot of damage in PvP even with the current nerfs, buff the damage for Pve and you make Feral very strong in PvP, unless you increase the damage reduction when hitting an enemy player...

[exochaft]

Buffing PvE without impacting PvP is fairly difficult. Feral still does a lot of damage in PvP even with the current nerfs, buff the damage for Pve and you make Feral very strong in PvP, unless you increase the damage reduction when hitting an enemy player...

Which is a completely acceptable way of balancing between PvE and PvP for the community most likely. For Blizz... they've constantly given mixed signals concerning this issue of separate scaling based upon different content and can be extremely stubborn in a few select cases. However, I think we've gotten to the point where using PvP damage as an excuse is an extremely weak argument for Blizz to hide behind.

For example, Blizz did two separate nerfs to Moonkin in PvP to Starsurge and the scaling affect of the Azerite trait AP (which alters Starsurge damage) because it was doing too much damage in PvP for their liking. Did they change anything in PvE? No, they left it alone because it works in PvE just fine. This is just one example, but there are tons of similar examples across many classes/specs. Yet, as I mentioned before, Blizz is extremely stubborn when it comes to Ferals and their long history of having incompatibilities between PvE and PvP damage and mechanics. I've always joked that Blizz will nerf Feral bleeds a week or two into a new expansion, because they've had a long history of saying "People are complaining about the power of Feral bleeds in PvP, so we're nerfing them... here's some direct damage buffs that won't compensate nearly enough, enjoy!"