So every Elemental Shaman happy now?

[Puupi]

Hahaha @ "worthless"

Actually your post shows they are pretty damn close.

First of all, when I posted that, they were middle of the pack in the data.

Secondly, they still aren't the best. Survival is lacking in real life data compared to simulations, too.

What about Frost DK's? Overall the best, simulated as 3rd worst.

So yeah, my point still stands.

The game isn't a patchwerk simulation.

[unbound]

Now you guys can see yourself how ridiculous it is to whine endlessly before something is live and really testable. They fixed it and they listened, happy now?

The primary problem with Ele Shaman has always been about playing. A spec does not begin and end with dps charts. I don't play BM hunter because its dead boring...and I still don't play my Ele Shaman because this expansion actively hates turret casters, and the rotation (yes, even under 8.1) is a pale shadow of Legion, much less earlier expansions.

[danki1337]

Well with storm ele out I'm god, but as soon as he expires it goes back to sluggish mess. My m+ performance on trash has actually worsened. Everything feels so slow, like I'm stirring resin.

Patchwerk fights, scarce as they are, are great.
Cleave fights are alright too.
Heavy movement fights are pure shit.


So the damage is there, but the gameplay feels slow and boring. And still no defencives gained as a tradeoff for being shit on movement. Give grounding field or baseline avoidance please.

shamans are insane in mythic+ right now, they are insane in pvp, they are really good in uldir right now also,
all 3 shaman specs are 1 tier above everything else in pvp aswell,

i understand you are complaining about heavy movment, but again should every class shine in every scenario?
what are you talking about

[Kralljin]

Well with storm ele out I'm god, but as soon as he expires it goes back to sluggish mess. My m+ performance on trash has actually worsened. Everything feels so slow, like I'm stirring resin.

You have to explain how your M+ performance has worsened.

Stormkeeper being the ST talent is a blessing M+, you just run SK in literally Instance, no matter the affix.
Previously, SK was a dead talent on tyrannical but a neccessary evil because your AoE dps blew without it.

I mean what exactly did you lose?
I doubt neither Exposed Elements or High Voltage seriously improved your performance.

shamans are insane in mythic+ right now, they are insane in pvp, they are really good in uldir right now also,
all 3 shaman specs are 1 tier above everything else in pvp aswell

Ele gotten a lot stronger overall, but neither Resto nor Enhance left the hole as far as M+ is concerned.

[Ashetaka]

I'm very happy with the changes except for a few things. I don't understand why all of the new talents are so undertuned they are useless. I think Elemental Blast is going to be the top pick going into BoD because you can stack Nature's Harmony + Echo of the Elementals simultaneously pretty easily with the extra ring of azerites.

The biggest complaint I have is in the design of Surge of Power. It's a really awful talent. Two of the choices are a huge DPS loss in every possible scenario and the fact that you can waste it on a Frost Shock actually makes Shaman less mobile since you can no longer safely chain Earth Shock + Frost Shock to do DPS while moving. I don't understand why the CD reduction on elementals was tied to Lava Burst which further complicates the decision on when to use Lava Burst for SoP. Like you have to know far too much for this to be in the talent. You need to know the exact duration of the fight (which will change from week to week due to RNG and raid performance), exactly how many LvBs to use during that time to transition back to LB, and you need to know how many times Surge will proc to minimize proc munching (impossible). I really don't like how every LvB SoP contributes 0 DPS if it didn't contribute to an extra elemental. I really don't like that LvB SoPs punish uses by reducing the talent's DPS gains to 0 if you don't get an extra elemental. The way this talent is implemented the only safe way it can be used is to treat it like Exposed Elements, but with a large list of caveats that make it harder to use and more harshly punished for no DPS gains. I don't like that it performs the worst by a wide margin on any cleave/AoE than its counterparts in the tier (by something like more than 5%).

We're stuck with the talent now, but I'd like to see it changed or removed. I see a lot of Shamans defending the talent, but they're just "ooh, shiny new thing" who are going to come around to my way of thinking in a week or so when they realize that spending 3 months complaining to anyone who will listen that Shamans lack mobility then defending a talent that completely eliminates your ability to DPS on the move makes you look like a stupid hypocrite.

[Stormbreed]

First of all, when I posted that, they were middle of the pack in the data.

Secondly, they still aren't the best. Survival is lacking in real life data compared to simulations, too.

What about Frost DK's? Overall the best, simulated as 3rd worst.

So yeah, my point still stands.

The game isn't a patchwerk simulation.

Your point doesn't stand, the estimates were #1 and they are #3.

The rest of your nonsense also doesn't mean shit, the truth is right now they are top 3, that is a huge bump in the right direction kiddo. And I'll take something being close, to your just being mad you were a bit wrong.

Anyways, Shaman's celebrate, we taking over.

In the last week I've witnessed more shammies rolling then before, which is always nice.

[Powell]

Numbers mean fuck all when a class is designed poorly.
Elemental Shamans have no identity. They could just design a proper spec, but they're too chicken shit to make anything even remotely complex.

[cainejw]

Now you guys can see yourself how ridiculous it is to whine endlessly before something is live and really testable. They fixed it and they listened, happy now?

Logs show it middle of the pack now, not the top. And Enhancement is still quite low.

Next time don't be a dick.

[Volitar]

15 years experience tells me this won't last.

When has Ele ever been allowed to have good single target? Either total garbage or meme aoe lord.

[Pua]

Patchwerk simulations are as useful as nun's nipples.

Compared to that... I'd still put those simulations in second place.

[Taan]

i understand you are complaining about heavy movment, but again should every class shine in every scenario?
what are you talking about

I don't mind heavy movement sometimes, but most of the content is heavy on the movement.

You have to explain how your M+ performance has worsened.

Stormkeeper being the ST talent is a blessing M+, you just run SK in literally Instance, no matter the affix.
Previously, SK was a dead talent on tyrannical but a neccessary evil because your AoE dps blew without it.

I mean what exactly did you lose?
I doubt neither Exposed Elements or High Voltage seriously improved your performance.

Well beside still having a hard time finding a 13+ key as a 385\1.2k io I found that somehow maestrom generation has worsened for me (moe CL casts per EQ), Loss of magma totem has impacted trash dps and overall feeling of suggishness has set in. When storm elemental is up - aoe is great. In SE downtime - back to resin stirring.

Don't get me wrong, single targets melt like butter, but cleave\aoe for me has gotten worse.

I'll analyze my logs from today's runs and come back to you

Maybe I should get back to magma totem, but I will lose the SE great single target.

[Kralljin]

Well beside still having a hard time finding a 13+ key as a 385\1.2k io I found that somehow maestrom generation has worsened for me, Loss of magma totem has impacted trash dps and overall feeling of suggishness has set in. When storm elemental is up - aoe is great. In SE downtime - back to resin stirring.

I still don't get your complaint here.
Liquid Magma Totem is still there, utterly unchanged and never had any impact on your MS generation.

And as for LMT vs. SE in M+ was unaffected by 8.1, none of them received any changes.

[krl]

Ele's low mobility is by design. It is by design that they should own turretting-style fights. If anything they should be higher on this list.
It also means ele will be subpar in 2/3 MM fights on every raid tier because of required mobility. Nothing to see, move along.

[Laqweeta]

patchwerk simulations are as useful as nun's nipples.

lmao get out of here i'm putting this as my new sig... goddamnit lmfao

[HCLM]

Ele's low mobility is by design. It is by design that they should own turretting-style fights. If anything they should be higher on this list.
It also means ele will be subpar in 2/3 MM fights on every raid tier because of required mobility. Nothing to see, move along.

Ele is now 2nd caster spec on Mythic logs if you select 90th parses. It seems fine to me, and Uldir is rather heavy movement raid.

[shaunika123]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st.../19#dataset=95

And here's what the actual data looks like.

Sims are worthless, like always.

to be fair so is outdated content(especially one week of sample of it)

what matters is siege PROGRESS

[Puupi]

to be fair so is outdated content(especially one week of sample of it)

True, sort of. "Sort of" because that is the only and most up to date content available.

what matters is siege PROGRESS

Yes, but we aren't there yet.

[shaunika123]

True, sort of. "Sort of" because that is the only and most up to date content available.


Yes, but we aren't there yet.

no, but we're also over uldir.

yolo cheesed farm logs are even more irrelevant than sims tbh.

sims at least show some concrete numbers.
all logs show is which class can abuse the boss mechanics the most.

[Byleth]

Also, we are still one the least mobile specs in the game, so i bet we will still us lose heavily on many fights when it comes to dps.

^ This. Ele needs the boost to cope with movement, we lost so much if we're constantly running.

[Logwyn]

I still say the best way to go about "balancing" DPS specs is to pick a cap on the amount of DPS by a character. Say 18k dps. Any damage over 18k is just ignored. Is the class/spec doing 18k dps? No? Then increase it till it is.

This gets rid of the "my class needs a buff" and "we can't bring you your class doesn't dps enough". Then you can also judge the play and their skill if they aren't hitting 18k dps what are they doing wrong?!?!


but what do I know?