1. #1

    So if i open with rake, i can't get extra damage from shred?

    both seem to offer an advantage from attacking from stealth but it would seem you would always open with rake.

    is the benefit of shred some pvp thing? it seems optimized to always hit right after rake but whats the from stealth benefit leveraged from?

  2. #2
    Opening with Rake is the PvP thing. The stun is PvP bread and butter. On boss fights, open with Shred for the extra damage. Solo, use shred unless survivability is an issue, then use Rake for the stun to buy some time without receiving damage.

  3. #3
    Rake is used pretty much anywhere they can be stunned. (PvP/M+ trash mobs/some raid trash) Shred is better against pretty much everything that can't be stunned.

    Some exceptions can be made, such as not using rake so you don't start DRs early. In alot of cases in M+ for example, you need to save your stuns for when a mob starts casting an ability that can't be interrupted. So in a stun heavy comp (such as with a DH who has 2x stun) you'd be less likely to want to stun on your opener, and instead would benefit more from the shred damage.
    Last edited by siskokid21; 2018-12-16 at 04:51 AM. Reason: added 2nd paragrph

  4. #4
    Idk where these other two are getting the idea that Shred is for damage, but on a boss you open with Rake. Rake deals 100% increased damage from stealth, which applies to both it's initial damage and it's DoT. Shred only gets a 30% increase and the double chance to crit which does not even remotely compare to a 200% damage Tiger's Fury Rake.

    Shreds stealth benefit is a bit weird, because only purpose I could see for it would be if you already have Rake going on the target with that snapshot already, so like in PvP if you pillar reset and re-enter stealth really fast and go back in.

    In PvE, you should always open from stealth with Rake, 100% of the time. I literally can not think of a situation in which you wouldn't. It doesn't even matter if the mob is stun immune, the damage still doubles.
    Last edited by Noryll; 2018-12-16 at 06:20 AM.

  5. #5
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    You always open with Rake on a boss, never Shred. If you are a Night elf, Shadowmeld also becomes a cooldown as you can Shadowmeld into a buffed Rake.

    The only time you would want to open with Shred is in open world content where a mob wouldn't survive more than a few ticks of Rake anyway.

  6. #6
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    The only time you would want to open with Shred is in open world content where a mob wouldn't survive more than a few ticks of Rake anyway.
    Meh, even then I'd use Rake. Mostly because of the stun attached to it. Anything that is stun immune will live long enough that Rake's dot takes priority anyway.

  7. #7
    So much misinformation here. It doesnt matter what you are doing, you open with stealth rake. Period.

  8. #8
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Meh, even then I'd use Rake.
    Same.

    But I guess on paper you could kill a single, normal, low health mob faster by opening with Shred first. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    It's the only situation I could think of where you could get use out of a stealthed Shred.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Nurvus's Avatar
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    Except Shred does not benefit from Mastery and Rake does.
    Whatever benefit Shred has shrinks as gear improves.
    Very bad design.
    Why did you create a new thread? Use the search function and post in existing threads!
    Why did you necro a thread?

  10. #10
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurvus View Post
    Except Shred does not benefit from Mastery and Rake does.
    Whatever benefit Shred has shrinks as gear improves.
    Very bad design.
    *shrug* It's just a Sinister Strike reworded. It's not overly exciting and just a combo point builder. That's all it's supposed to be.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Nurvus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    *shrug* It's just a Sinister Strike reworded. It's not overly exciting and just a combo point builder. That's all it's supposed to be.
    Sorry but that's not a valid comparison.

    Ofcourse it's fine to have combo builders that do just that.
    Crusader Strike and Blade of Justice don't scale with Mastery and that's fine.
    But Shred is not a Crusader Strike or a Sinister Strike.
    Brutal Slash has it even worse as it takes a Talent slot that competes with talents that scale with Mastery.

    Both the bonus damage while stealthed and bonus damage vs bleeding targets that Shred/Swipe get should scale with Mastery.
    Brutal Slash should also get bonus vs bleeding targets in the same way.
    Last edited by Nurvus; 2018-12-17 at 07:46 AM.
    Why did you create a new thread? Use the search function and post in existing threads!
    Why did you necro a thread?

  12. #12
    Always use rake, Rake receives a 100% damage bonus to both the initial dmg and the DoT. The stun aspect is just an extra bonus.

    Shred 30% is to help with burst if you are using incarnation. Or it can be used to help burn down a healer in arena if you restealth.

    ALWAYS OPEN WITH RAKE
    Last edited by Jetzu; 2018-12-17 at 07:53 AM.

  13. #13
    It’s a leftover mechanic from older wow. Back in the day u had abilities u could only use during stealth, but they merged them at some point. Rake and shred never had the stealth mechanic, u had pounce which was a stun/bleed that could only be used during stealth. Then u had ravage which could only be used during stealth, which was basically a buffed shred. Pvp sets actually let u ravage after ur feral charge back then. And shred could only be used when u were behind the target back then too.

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