How would you have handled DCEU?

[Skroe]

I would have done pretty much everything completely different, in order to differentiate it from the MCU. You see the problem with Warner Bros going from Man of Steel (which was originally conceieved as "Dark Knight"-ing Superman rather than starting a broader universe), then to Batman vs Superman, then to Justice League. They wanted to skip to "their Avengers", without doing the five lead up films the MCU did before Avengers to great effect.

That's failure number one.

Number two is that grimdark is stupid, especially with DC characters. I would have gone the exact opposite direction. I would have set the entire thing as basically a period piece.

"Superman", the first movie, would have taken place in 1938. It would star an inexperienced Superman, much like his Golden Age version. I would go for plenty of black and white scenes and a Flash Gordon type feel for anything Krypton.

"Batman", the second movie, would have taken place in 1941 (before the US entry into World War II) starring Batman at the very start of his career too.

Wonder Woman, the third movie, I would have kept broadly the same and kept it in World War I.

Trinity, the fourth movie, would take place in 1955. Batman and Superman would be much more experienced now and Superman the greatest hero in the world, though never having encountered each other. The return of Wonder Woman brings them together. Their shared adventure would end with the discovery of Martian Manhunter and the threat of "the Conquerors", a parasitic race that destroyed Mars millennia ago.

The Flash, the Fifth movie, would take place in 1956, and would hook firmly into the emerging plot of the "Conquerors".

The sixth movie, the "Justice League of America" (or just "Justice League" internationally), would take place in 1960. It would introduce Hal Jordan, the Green Lantern, and bring the Conquerors (and the continent sized Starro) to Earth to do to it what they did to mars. The plot would kind of be a mixture of the amazing Justice League DCAU pilot and Darwyne Cooke's New Frontier.

Thematically, visually and stylistically, it would be more "New Frontier" than anything else.

One reason I like this is because it treats Superman as the "first" public superhero and kind of the most senior, with Batman not far behind and Wonder Woman kind of around them. The Silver Age heroes arrive when the trinity are at the height of their abilities.

-----

DC has had Superman movies they can't really top with the two Richard Donner Films, and a "modern" take on Batman that they can't top with the Dark Knight trilogy. The only real way forward is to not compete with what they've already done.

Man of Steel falls far short of pretty much every Superman attempt to date. And the DCEU Batman... well... it does some things right (the costume, that amazing fight scene in the warehouse), but is still just... off.

The route is just to go completely different, and I think that says "period piece".

The other way to do it is end up with what Marvel began to do with the original Avengers. Over time, people got used to the idea of "Movie Thor" and "Movie Capt", that they didn't need Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, or the Hulk or anyone else being 1:1 with their comics or "idealized" versions. Civil War and Ragnarok just hit people in the face with it - Capt didn't need his shield to be Capt, and Thor didn't need his hammer. And Iron Man? Well, Robert Downey Jr. stopped playing Tony Stark after Iron Man 2, and pretty much just been playing "Robert Downey Jr" ever since, and the characters gotten better for it.

[Realitytrembles]

The whole "Martha" scene in Batman vs Superman is emblematic of the problems. Not only was the line incredibly bad, but from a story perspective, it was utterly stupid...Batman is simply going to stop because of that? The actual fight between the 2 was something like only 5 minutes which is what many people really wanted to see anyways. Even with the enhanced release, Lex Luthor is just a muddled mess.

Wanted to speak to this. People who really dig into the lore know that Batman has flashbacks and basically PTSD when something triggers his memories of Crime Alley. I'm a tabletop RPG nerd, and in the DC rpg, Batman has a flaw representing this condition that can trigger under certain conditions.

[Clone]

I would have done pretty much everything completely different, in order to differentiate it from the MCU. You see the problem with Warner Bros going from Man of Steel (which was originally conceieved as "Dark Knight"-ing Superman rather than starting a broader universe), then to Batman vs Superman, then to Justice League. They wanted to skip to "their Avengers", without doing the five lead up films the MCU did before Avengers to great effect.

That's failure number one.

Number two is that grimdark is stupid, especially with DC characters. I would have gone the exact opposite direction. I would have set the entire thing as basically a period piece.

"Superman", the first movie, would have taken place in 1938. It would star an inexperienced Superman, much like his Golden Age version. I would go for plenty of black and white scenes and a Flash Gordon type feel for anything Krypton.

"Batman", the second movie, would have taken place in 1941 (before the US entry into World War II) starring Batman at the very start of his career too.

Wonder Woman, the third movie, I would have kept broadly the same and kept it in World War I.

Trinity, the fourth movie, would take place in 1955. Batman and Superman would be much more experienced now and Superman the greatest hero in the world, though never having encountered each other. The return of Wonder Woman brings them together. Their shared adventure would end with the discovery of Martian Manhunter and the threat of "the Conquerors", a parasitic race that destroyed Mars millennia ago.

The Flash, the Fifth movie, would take place in 1956, and would hook firmly into the emerging plot of the "Conquerors".

The sixth movie, the "Justice League of America" (or just "Justice League" internationally), would take place in 1960. It would introduce Hal Jordan, the Green Lantern, and bring the Conquerors (and the continent sized Starro) to Earth to do to it what they did to mars. The plot would kind of be a mixture of the amazing Justice League DCAU pilot and Darwyne Cooke's New Frontier.

Thematically, visually and stylistically, it would be more "New Frontier" than anything else.

One reason I like this is because it treats Superman as the "first" public superhero and kind of the most senior, with Batman not far behind and Wonder Woman kind of around them. The Silver Age heroes arrive when the trinity are at the height of their abilities.

-----

DC has had Superman movies they can't really top with the two Richard Donner Films, and a "modern" take on Batman that they can't top with the Dark Knight trilogy. The only real way forward is to not compete with what they've already done.

Man of Steel falls far short of pretty much every Superman attempt to date. And the DCEU Batman... well... it does some things right (the costume, that amazing fight scene in the warehouse), but is still just... off.

The route is just to go completely different, and I think that says "period piece".

The other way to do it is end up with what Marvel began to do with the original Avengers. Over time, people got used to the idea of "Movie Thor" and "Movie Capt", that they didn't need Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, or the Hulk or anyone else being 1:1 with their comics or "idealized" versions. Civil War and Ragnarok just hit people in the face with it - Capt didn't need his shield to be Capt, and Thor didn't need his hammer. And Iron Man? Well, Robert Downey Jr. stopped playing Tony Stark after Iron Man 2, and pretty much just been playing "Robert Downey Jr" ever since, and the characters gotten better for it.

Do you think it being a period piece will bypass the Batman fatigue that was talked about couple years ago? It seemed to be one of the concerns people had after the Dark Knight Trilogy.

[FeinHammer]

Nolan’s movies were such masterpieces that it was always going to overshadow any future Batman films

[Clone]

Nolan’s movies were such masterpieces that it was always going to overshadow any future Batman films

Yeah, but I do think trying to emulate it didn't help with later DCEU films.

[Florena]

I don't mind the darker tone but keep Zack Snyder away from it. Get a director that understands the core of these characters better.

[Kyphael]

In other words just give it back to Christopher Nolan!

I don't know, I have a feeling Christopher Nolan's Justice League/DCU would have been like Snyder's, except more coherent and with a better narrative.

You need a single mastermind behind the DCU like Marvel Studios has Kevin Feige. Who would that be? I'd have to do some research, Joss Whedon proved that without Feige he's just another director and not some sort of genius.

[JDL49]

1) If you want a dark Superman, me and a hell of a lot folks will pass. It's offensive to the actual, well-loved character.

2) Over-powered* may make your soldier stand up and salute but it makes non op'd character's not work well in concert with them. If you look at the Marvel movies the non powered characters like Romanoff, Barton, Fury, Hill, and Coulson really helped the movies they were in. For that matter so did a bunch of the non powered villains.

*any character that has to have an Achilles's Heel to make them vulnerable for example.

3) SHIELD gave a measure of legitimacy to the AVENGERS in Phase 1. By making them legit it allowed Stark to step in later and continue the organization and at least maintain the appearance of legitimacy.

4) BvS versus Civil War. Marvel's movie failed to alienate fans, DC's succeeded. This is pretty much the fruit of the poisonous tree that is Man of Steel.

As always YMMV.

- - - Updated - - -

You need a single mastermind behind the DCU like Marvel Studios has Kevin Feige. Who would that be? I'd have to do some research, Joss Whedon proved that without Feige he's just another director and not some sort of genius.

Disagree on Whedon. Feige was not that much of a help on AV1 and actually screwed things up a bit on Ultron. He has admitted to the latter to a degree. As for JLA it turned out to be un-savable.

[Kyphael]

What about the specifics though? Who's gonna be in the first movie and who's he gonna fight? How are you going to build it to a Justice League movie and we are they gonna fight?

I thought John Morrison's JLA had the best ensemble of villains ever.

The Hyperclan (White Martians), Asmodel, The Key, Luthor's Injustice Gang with the Philosopher's Stone, Darkseid taking over the Earth in a dystopian future, Prometheus, The Ultra Marines and General Eiling and ultimately Mageddon. Any of those proved to be interesting, League-level threats, some world-menacing, others simply league-level. There's no shortage of great DC villains, DC just keeps going back to the same well or they make goofball decisions (seriously, Steppenwolf? LOL)

[Deleted]

Putting aside all the other failings, looking at the MCU movies and the DCEU movies, both are huge CGI orgies. Yet, somehow, the DCEU CGI looks horrible, every single time. And, the suits look like they're straight out of Batman & Robin. Or, in other words, action figures. The color palettes are always ghastly, way too much color, just way way too unrealistic and fake-looking.

Actually good CGI, set design, costume design, lighting, color palettes and so on, might have helped a lot. Probably wouldn't have saved the movies, though.

[Misuteri]

1. Never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever let Ben Affleck be Batman.

2. Should have built up the franchise characters from the most unlikely (Aquaman) first to the end all be all of Superman.

3. Tied together crossovers with the least likely pairing(s) first.

Batman vs. Superman was incredibly meh. Wonder Woman was better than anyone expected and is likely the strongest character from a box office standpoint right now.

Aquaman looks promising, right? Right???

Anyways I’m not big enough of a comic book nerd to speculate above number 1 anyways. My version of the Justice League/Superfriends featured Wendy, Marvin and Wonderdog unfortunately followed by the Wonder Twins and Gleek. I’ll always think of them as a Saturday morning cartoon not to be taken seriously.

[Biomega]

I never liked DC much. Their entire universe seems centered around Batman and Superman, both of which I find deeply flawed characters with a ton of detrimental writing constraints attached to them. Batman is too smart, Superman is too strong. So every plotline revolves around somehow making their powers irrelevant, or turning them on their heads. Flash has a similar problem in that his powers are never portrayed in any sort of logically coherent or believable way, possibly because doing so would make him way too powerful - against a writing constraint. In a way, Wonderwoman is actually the best of the classical JLA top tier. And that's despite being a LITERAL demigoddess.

As for the implementation, they just had no direction and no vision. Marvel from the start decided they were in it for the long haul. DCEU rode in on Nolan's coattails and thought they could just supercharge their own idea of an EU in the vein of the famed trilogy - unfortunately, that doesn't work unless you toe the line and actually respect the higher degree of realism in Nolan's works. You can drop a Kryptonian god into the middle of it all, and get away with it. It's bound to become ludicrous - and it did. Add to that some hilarious casting mistakes like Luthor and Joker, and ridiculous plot twists like the whole Martha thing, and it's a recipe for disaster.

I'm anxious to see if they did it better with Aquaman. Momoa is definitely a genius casting for the role and a genuinely enjoyable presence on the screen, so I hope the movie is appropriately more light-hearted than the depressing, washed-out-grey mess that was JL.

[Zelk]

made a film that wasn't based on some stupid comic book about fish men or whatever

[A Young Munch]

1. Spend more time with the characters. We had a shit ton of movies before Avengers started putting everyone together. I think every superhero, except Hawkeye and Black Widow, had his/her own movie before showing up in an Avenger's movie.
2. Less repetitive special effects. Man of Steel was: Supes piledrives Zod into a building. Now Zod is piledriving Supes into a building. Now Supes is piledriving Zod into a building
3. Better casting. Jesse Eisenberg as Lex and Jared Leto as Joker was baaaaaaaaaaaad
4. Better writing. Oh, Batman and Superman are going to stop fighting each other because they both have mother's (well, step mom for Supes) named Martha? Give me a break.

I've never agreed with anything more in my life. I've said time and again that I felt like they literally recycled the same shot repeatedly of someone getting punched into a building. I don't even hate CGI as much as most people, but I was tired of watching the equivalent of a "10 Hours of..." video of spacemen getting smacked into objects.

[Cradyz]

Fix their obvious faults? Bad writing for poorly casted actors. A rushed set of movies resulting in a lack of character development and a story that doesn't play on the strengths of the source material. Bad animation can't save that mess either. I'm not sure anybody can imitate what marvel did, all CU attempts so far have failed. Marvel just got lucky by kicking of the superhero phase in cinema and perfected their formula in time to capitalize on it.

DC should just make standalone movies.

[PACOX]

Bad marketing dishonest marketing (BvS title, Suicide Squad trailers - Joker focus)

Spiderman has taught everyone about the multiverse (for the cartoon) with all the damn reboots. Hell even Batman, which IMO is the best example of different versions of a hero living in their own universe. One thing you dont do though it betray the core identity of the hero...looking at you BvS Batman. Acted well but written all over the place. A bit better in Suicide Squad (even though barely in it), and Justice League. I only felt like Batman was Batman at the end of BvS. Lex Luther...all they had to do was name hime something else and it would've been fine. Again, not Einsebergs fault, it was the writing.

BvS editting was terrible.

The main thing, THE MAIN THING, managment was a hot mess behind the scenes. They kept trying to micro-manage the movies, changing scope and direction at the last miniute because it they wanted to be MCU and DCs own thing. Like it Star Trek/Star Wars tried to copy the other. It would be a hot mess, no? Whats sad is that DC movies have a history of doing well then they went and messed up trying to be MCU.

I dont even think it has anything with them trying to be 'dark' because most incrations of Batman are 'dark' from cartoon to live action (ugh Clooney Batmans). Superman is more on the serious side of comicbook movies. All the cartoons are more mature than most other cartooons, so I don't know what the execs were shooting for.

The real issue is that no actors are going to want to touch it. They'd had to reboot characters again like Sony with Spiderman.

[Hadriker]

Do you think it being a period piece will bypass the Batman fatigue that was talked about couple years ago? It seemed to be one of the concerns people had after the Dark Knight Trilogy.

The last proper batman film was 10 years ago now. Batman Fatigue shouldn't really be a thing at this point.

But saying that. I loved the DCAU New Frontier movie. So i would be totally down with something like what Skroe thought up.

[Kyphael]

I have my own formula based on my exposure to the Justice League as a kid.

YEAR 1

JUSTICE LEAGUE: YEAR 1

Takes place in the 1960's; the Golden Age of comic books. Introduce Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Green Lantern Hal Jordan, Flash Barry Allen and J'onn J'onnz, The Martian Manhunter battling Starro. Starro is a threat, the movie is to establish the presence of metahumans in a baby boomer-era USA. Superman's ship crash lands on Earth in the mid-credits, and Batman's parents are murdered in the post-credits scene.

THE BRAVE & THE BOLD

Introduce Oliver Queen Green Arrow in a 1970's, Vietnam war-era America alongside The Flash. The League ha disbanded, seen through flashbacks in the introduction (battling foes such as The Key.) Wonder Woman goes into hiding, J'onn has assimilated into humanity and Aquaman returned to his underwater kingdom. Establish Oliver's role as someone who will keep The League honest in its role as super powered Gods.

YEAR 2

TRINITY

Taking place in the 1980's. When Hal Jordan, Earth's mightiest hero suffers a tragic loss, he becomes Parallax, killing every Green Lantern and Guardian of Oa to bring his absolute order to the universe. Wonder Woman must come out of hiding while the world is just now being introduced to the Superman and Gotham's criminals are learning to fear The Batman. While Hal Jordan readily defeats most of his former friends (severs Aquaman's hand, kills Oliver Queen) until coming across the Trinity. Even they cannot defeat Parallax so Barry Allen sacrifices himself at the end to take Hal down. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman decide the Earth needs a new league to combat planet-threatening forces, but how can they keep themselves in check without Olliver? Mid-credits scene shows Batman forming a contingency plan. Post-credits scene shows Superman starting a recruitment drive; one of the inspiring young heroes is called Triumph.

ORION

When an intergalactic foe known as Brainiac threatens to destroy all of Apokolips, Highfather of New Genesis is instructed by Metron to help maintain order and balance, and reluctantly sends his adoptive son, Orion, Barda and Mr. Terrific on a mission to save Darkseid and Apokolips from certain doom. In the end, Darkseid uncovers Brainiac has spanned the cosmos chronicling knowledge as a means to try to stop the Anti-Life Equation found within a weapon of mass destruction known simply as Mageddon. Post credits scene sees Orion arriving on Earth at Highfather's behest to enter his bid to join The Justice League.

YEAR 3

JUSTICE LEAGUE: TRIUMPH

Infiltrating The League's Watch Tower, Triumph effortlessly takes down Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Orion, the new Flash (Wally West) and newbie members Cyborg and Firestorm. Revealing his agenda as a time-displaced hero and original founding member of The League lost to time due to tempering from The Gods, he is backed by multi-billionaire Lex Luthor, the super intelligent Prometheus, an expert in alternate realities in The Key, and Circe, an expert of mysticism and magic. In order to defeat this new unstoppable Justice Gang, the League receives some unlikely help from the new, yet last remaining Green Lantern in the universe; Kyle Rayner. Mid-credits scene has Wally West and Kyle Rayner playing Rock'em Sock'em Robots. A post credits scene reveals an acquitted Lex Luthor's ace in the hole--the creation of Aztek's helmet.

ZAURIEL

When an angel falls from heaven, new Leaguer Shayera Hol is sent to investigate by J'onn J'onnz while The League's heavy hitters are away on a mission in outer space. Zauriel reveals to Shayera that Asmodel, a Lucifer wannabe who was cast out from heaven enslaved her people on Thanagar to destroy God's favorite mortals as revenge; humans. As the invasion of Thanagar spearheaded by Asmodel begins on a city-wide scale, Hawkgirl and Zauriel find themselves utterly outmatched by the unrecognizable magic displayed by the Thanagarian tech crafted from schematics stolen by Asmodel. Forced to turn to the mystic arts, they seek out Dr. Strange in order to find a way to defeat Asmodel and turn back the invasion. Post-credits scene sees Zauriel join the League at Hawkgirl's suggestion.

AZTEK

Early November release. A detective story where Earth's newest hero, Aztek, is tasked by Q Corp. to crack Batman's contingency plan, believing Batman to be a threat to Earth's greatest super heroes. Cadmus counters with their own assassin, Connor Hawke, the new Green Arrow, whose mission is to put Aztek down and take his helmet to uncover its technology. In a clash of secret organizations, Aztek uncovers the underbelly of his origins and his true destiny found in the tech of his helmet; to destroy the destroyer of Gods. Post credits scene has Aztek approach Superman and Orion and removing is helmet, setting it down on the table with Connor behind him.

YEAR 4

JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA: TOWER OF BABEL

Orion knows Mageddon is coming, and he knows Darkseid knows, so he departs for New Genesis to counsel with Highfather. Meanwhile, The League is in full force with humanity's and the government's support, taking down The Joker's new Royal Flush Gang as if it was child's play; but The Joker was merely the first piece in Ra's Al Ghul's plot to destroy The Detective's team from within using The Batman's contingency plan. One by one, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Green Arrow, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, and Hawkgirl all fall. As Batman and Ra's Al Ghul clash, it's irresistible force vs. immovable object, but Batman's friends are at death's door, and Ra's does not relent. Ra's Al Ghul cannot be stopped unless Batman is willing to cross the red line; in the end it's The Huntress who has to pull the trigger.

THE BATMAN & THE HUNTRESS

Batman is excommunicated from the League he helped establish, and now a wanted man by Cadmus, so he goes on the run from the help of the woman who helped him save the League itself from certain doom. Together, the Caped Crusader and Huntress seek to weed out the mole within Cadmus who stole the information from him and provided it to Ra's. They uncover General Eiling's own contingency plan to use Batman's knowledge since Ra's Al Ghul failed. The US government does not trust The League after all! After credits scene sees Mageddon swallowing up (not a planet) Pluto as it enters Earth's solar system.

YEAR 5

JUSTICE LEAGUE: DESTROYER

13 months ago, Highfather and New Genesis are the first to fall to Mageddon. Darkseid receives word his "Anti-Life Equation" is here. He deploys Brainiac-based drones to investigate, only to be assimilated into his intended weapon. Darkseid arrives on Earth, bringing hell, and all active Leaguers are on call! The final battle for the fate of the universe begins.

Phase 2 can touch upon alternate Earths, I’d keep phase 1 simple.

[Mormolyce]

I suppose you have to start with the core Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman films. I'll put aside WW since they pretty much nailed that one (only thing I'd change is the ending, remove the stupid Zach Snyder action scene).

Superman is a very difficult character to do in 2018 because we're a much more cynical society than we were in the 1930s. Superman is a symbol of a bright hope for the future. Last year I read a bunch of old Superman comics (would've read a lot more but DC doesn't have an equivalent of Marvel Unlimited the pricks) and tried to get an idea of how you could do Superman justice in a modern film. I think the most important thing is, you have to be faithful to the original concept. He has to be positive and hopeful and yes, corny. Even the 70s Superman films had to deal with that - but they made a clever choice which is to frame him as an anachronism who everyone in the film finds unbelievable but never have him waver in his beliefs, ultimately vindicating him. I think you could do something similar now, with some very careful writing.

The other aspect you need to capture is the escapist fantasy of Superman. At his core he's a very simple character, he has a daily life where he's the dorky Clark Kent who nobody takes seriously, which he bears with a wink to the audience, and then when duty calls he's a fantasy character who can do anything. That kind of simplicity reads as corny now. But I don't think there's any other way to do Superman, you have to commit 100% to that vision and do it well enough that the audience is caught up in the enthusiasm of the movie.

I think the key to Superman is to challenge him morally, not physically. He's going to win any physical fight, we all know that.

And then there's Batman, who has the opposite problem - he's TOO current. Batman's had numerous popular depictions since at least the 80s, which have become more and more similar in tone and style. I don't think you can really do a new version of Batman without comparing unfavourably to one or all of those. The best approach IMO is to go with the "universal Batman", like the Arkham series did. Try to capture the epitome of Batman across all interpretations - comics, TV film etc. Loads and loads of continuity nods. But concentrate on making him feel like the Batman the audience already has in its imagination, which is a composite of all that's gone before.

The only things I'd like to see added would be more emphasis on some of Batman's traits that haven't been adequately explored in film before. For example, his PTSD-level hyper preparedness. Make the subtext text, make it clear to the audience that this Batman is so obsessed with his job that he's running thousands of simulations of possible outcomes back in the Batcave, preparing for anything that could happen in the crazy world of DC, so that he's ten steps ahead of most villains. I feel like this is a core aspect of his character and is necessary for his mythic stature. Also I want to see more detective work from the World's Greatest Detective, damnit.

Whatever they did with The Dark Knight.

In other words just give it back to Christopher Nolan!

IMO that was part of the problem, Snyder tried to emulate Nolan to the point that they had him as a co-writer or something on MoS. That tone and style do not work for Superman at all.

[McFuu]

Problems with DCU vs MCU:

MCU has an over arching story and connection between movies before any other hero is mentioned in any other hero's movie.
DCU has movies that just don't go together, the time line doesn't make sense, and it's hard to see where these heroes fit together. Or if they should even fit together...

In a perfect world... All of the DCU movies should follow the tone of the Dark Knight trilogy, and be set in that world. They ran into a huge issue when Superman came out attempting to recreate a tone from the DK Trilogy... except the DK Trilogy is not part of the DCU. There are really 2 options here roll back time and keep the Dark Knight as the basis of DCU story/theme or roll back time and the DK Trilogy never gets made.

Basically DCU is fucked and will never recover, their best options require either a time machine... or a hard fucking reboot. The first movie that actually starts the DCU is BvS, which is a problem. You have a payoff movie that should require watching other movies to really get into (ala Avengers). But there was no world building, the Supes movies attempted to recreate the tone of Batman movies that aren't actually part of the DCU. Hell the Supes movie doesn't lead into BvS, they are just used as a rough back story. An origin story for Batman and Wonderwoman should have been done, prior to BvS.

Honestly it needs to be detonated, the whole thing... you can't save it at this point. It's disjointed. Even the good movies like Wonder Woman doesn't feel like it belongs to a universe.

DC should have never attempted to replicate MCU. They should have stuck with epic inclusive stories like TDK Trilogy. They could have tapped WW for that, telling stories from WWI moving forward. Aquaman looks like shit already so that's dead. Suicide Squad doesn't make sense but could have been a great dark humor series... except dump Joker and HQ. Joker had his time in TDK Trilogy, HQ is just an unfortunate casualty of being too associated with Joker. I'm sure there is another female that can fill that role. These movies shouldn't be related, they should be movies that are epic and unique... like the TDK they should function as just movies with the Heroes and Villains taking a back seat to the sheer fact that these are fantastic stories.

But it's too late... Unless they just stop now.