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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Outside of agreeing with having Bruce Timm & Paul Dini be the Kevin Feige of the DCEU....

    Man of Steel:
    I would have only changed the final battle to show Clark trying to save people that were put in danger, but every time he does, Zod just beats him down. Like really hammers him. So then when Clark tries to focus on fighting Zod, we actually see Clark recognize the danger and even injuries or deaths being caused by fighting Zod directly. An attempt to lead Zod out of the city just sees Zod turn his attention towards civilians. There should have been a building tension through the whole fight that there was no way to win so the final neck snap had more of a desperate resolution to a no win scenario.

    Suicide Squad - I'd just scrap that entirely and look for a different angle to introduce them. Fire the costume/make up designer for Joker before they even start.
    Really spot on about MoS. Instead of a CGI super fight, make it MEAN something. Just this change alone I think would have put this film in a much better light. Reluctant Superman comes through in the end, and makes a horrible choice in a no-win scenario and grows as a character because of it.

    Now for Suicide Squad, I'd say the film was going on the right path (Waller is the villain, Enchantress is a loose cannon and incredibly dangerous) but was just a mess otherwise. Also Will Smith was horribly miscast as Deadshot, he just played his typical Will Smith character in this film.

    SS should be an outlet to introduce villains without going too much into their whole origin and whatnot. Use it to give a glimpse at the various rogue galleries of the heroes, throw them at some OTHER set of villains due to bad intel or the like, and at the end of it all, show that everything that occurred is some chess game between Waller and Batman. To me, SS has the most potential to try different things and just have fun with it than any other DC franchise.

  2. #42
    A big mistake was abandoning The Dark Knight trilogy and starting over.

    Yes, they kept saying those movies were supposed to exist in a world without superpowers, but that doesn't automatically mean you should scrap one of the most successful and best received movie trilogies, especially when Christian Bale was entirely willing to come back.

  3. #43
    Wonder Woman's current film. Superman movie set with him as a teenager, or similar age, in the 1930's. They meet in WW2. Both retire after the war until Batman resurfaces in current day. Superman takes it upon himself to face this vigilante who the cops can't contain. Brainiac invades and the Flash, Green Lantern, and Jon J'onzz show up to help defeat him(first JL film). Solo prequel movies for all three. Solo films for the other 3 core heroes. JL2 Darkseid attacks(while remaining on Apokalypse). More solo films, SM3 is Doomsday and ends with his death. JL3 Darkseid invades, thinking Supes is dead. Supes shows up in the last 30 minutes, after being regenerated(much like the comics), and sends Darkseid packing. Whammy. $10B in revenue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Got to earn his turnips.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote13 View Post
    Man, you lost me with the "No changes to SS. Great film" comment. If you think SS was a 'great film' I don't know how to help you. The casting was awful. The plot was worse. And, if possible, the execution of the film was the worst part.
    Sorry to have offended you. I loved it from start to finish. As I said, I've liked all the DC movies, it's just that I can't think of even a minor change for SS that I would do.

  5. #45
    Lego Moderator GothamCity's Avatar
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    First, I would not have tried to compete with Marvel. By the time DCEU started really trying to make movies, everyone was enamored with Marvel. If DCEU movies started coming out around this time (late 2018 or 2019) they would be able to ride the wave of superhero love on the conclusion of Avenger's Endgame.

    Next, I would have taken a hard look at what heroes I have available, and attempted to build a compelling narrative spanning several movies. Superman would probably be out - he's very much a mary sue and as we saw in Justice League, he's ridiculously overpowered and a fairly dull character. I mean, Man of Steel was rated about as well as The Incredible Hulk (the most poorly rated MCU movie I believe).

    The interesting thing Marvel did was to take relatively unknown or unexplored heroes and give them a chance at the big screen. This allowed them to create characters from the ground up without really competing with other versions. I mean, how many times do we hear how the DCEU Batman/Joker are nowhere near as good as the Christian Bale trilogy? Or how today's Superman is just a pale shadow of earlier versions? The only well known character Marvel really brought in was Spiderman, and that was nearly a decade into the MCU.

    I do think Aquaman was a good choice. He has a loyal fan base who would love to see him on the big screen. Shazam, Green Arrow (assuming the TV show was never made), Martian Manhunter, Jonah Hex, Swamp Thing, Hawkgirl, Nightwing, maybe even Green Lantern all could have been decent choices to flush out the DCEU. I think the DCEU is held back by their "stars" in Superman and Batman. Perhaps bring them in later in the series, but I would not have lead with them for the aforementioned reasons.
    "Okay, Robin. Together, we're gonna punch these guys so hard, words describing the impact are gonna spontaneously materialize out of thin air."
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    What if the next Superman turns out to be a villain? We need a team to combat that.
    >includes a woman with no powers and a baseball bat

    I mean, I'm okay with them using the anti-Superman preparation as a lie to justify the squad, then using them for wet work black ops type stuff, but that lie would be really flimsy under any oversight considering your team has next to no powers. Slipknot, Boomerang, Harley, arguably Deadshot, and Croc are practically no-powers and you're building a team to deal with potential Superman level threats? Heck, Katana qualifies on this level as well.
    I know, right. If they had sent the SS up against Zod, or even one of his Kryptonian minions, every single one of them would have died in under a minute. The Pyro guy and Sorceress maybe would have lasted 2 or 3.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by GothamCity View Post
    First, I would not have tried to compete with Marvel. By the time DCEU started really trying to make movies, everyone was enamored with Marvel. If DCEU movies started coming out around this time (late 2018 or 2019) they would be able to ride the wave of superhero love on the conclusion of Avenger's Endgame.

    Next, I would have taken a hard look at what heroes I have available, and attempted to build a compelling narrative spanning several movies. Superman would probably be out - he's very much a mary sue and as we saw in Justice League, he's ridiculously overpowered and a fairly dull character. I mean, Man of Steel was rated about as well as The Incredible Hulk (the most poorly rated MCU movie I believe).

    The interesting thing Marvel did was to take relatively unknown or unexplored heroes and give them a chance at the big screen. This allowed them to create characters from the ground up without really competing with other versions. I mean, how many times do we hear how the DCEU Batman/Joker are nowhere near as good as the Christian Bale trilogy? Or how today's Superman is just a pale shadow of earlier versions? The only well known character Marvel really brought in was Spiderman, and that was nearly a decade into the MCU.

    I do think Aquaman was a good choice. He has a loyal fan base who would love to see him on the big screen. Shazam, Green Arrow (assuming the TV show was never made), Martian Manhunter, Jonah Hex, Swamp Thing, Hawkgirl, Nightwing, maybe even Green Lantern all could have been decent choices to flush out the DCEU. I think the DCEU is held back by their "stars" in Superman and Batman. Perhaps bring them in later in the series, but I would not have lead with them for the aforementioned reasons.
    I have to say I feel the opposite.

    I'm all for pushing some of the lesser know heroes; Green Arrow and Swamp Thing being two of my favorites. But I would be totally uninterested in some tease like you describe where the Big 3 are held off until several movies in.

    I also have to say I really, really don't understand the hate for MoS. It was f'ing amazing to me. Definitely better than Routh's film, and as good as Superman 2 (my favorite of the Reeve films).

    If I had to say, for me MoS is better than even that 1. I enjoyed it far more, and it doesn't have all the campy bs that the Reeve films did. And I don't really see Cavill's Superman as himself "darker" or something. Rather, for me he stands out (against everything going to sht around him) as a hopeful, good, decent man. Or as Batman once said of him:

    "Then Clark throws fire from the sky, and it is hard not to think of him as a god. How lucky we all are that he would never think of himself that way."

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by McFuu View Post
    In a perfect world... All of the DCU movies should follow the tone of the Dark Knight trilogy, and be set in that world. They ran into a huge issue when Superman came out attempting to recreate a tone from the DK Trilogy... except the DK Trilogy is not part of the DCU. There are really 2 options here roll back time and keep the Dark Knight as the basis of DCU story/theme or roll back time and the DK Trilogy never gets made.
    No. Seriously, what the fuck, hell no. This is EXACTLY why DC Failed so hard in establishing a decent Superman reboot. The Dark Knight should NEVER have been used as a template to attempt to set the tone for the DCU.

    Gotham does NOT set the tone for the entire DC universe. Gotham is Gotham. Metropolis is Metropolis. The two characters of Superman and Batman literally exist as polar opposites of each other tone wise, which is evident in everything about the characters in the comic books from the way they are drawn, to the way their cities look, right down to the villians that they fight and the way they each individually approach solving problems. Marvel did this right. They did not try to make every single movie follow the same tone or setting. Every movie is different, yet still fits pretty much seamlessly into the whole.

    DC fucked shit up because they have tried to shoehorn their ENTIRE universe into the Tone set by Batman, and seem to think that the entire world of DC Earth somehow is just a giant extension of Gotham city... Pretty much every single movie in their existing Extended Universe up to this point has been needlessly Dark, Gritty and Grim (with the exception of Wonder Woman, which struck a pretty much perfect balance in it's setting as a War Movie) and they are only FINALLY pulling their heads out of their asses with Aquaman.
    Last edited by Surfd; 2018-12-20 at 05:25 AM.

  9. #49
    Lego Moderator GothamCity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realitytrembles View Post
    I have to say I feel the opposite.

    I'm all for pushing some of the lesser know heroes; Green Arrow and Swamp Thing being two of my favorites. But I would be totally uninterested in some tease like you describe where the Big 3 are held off until several movies in.

    I also have to say I really, really don't understand the hate for MoS. It was f'ing amazing to me. Definitely better than Routh's film, and as good as Superman 2 (my favorite of the Reeve films).
    I'm not a movie critic so it's hard to me to enunciate why I didn't really like it. Probably because I don't really like Superman in general. Regardless, I wasn't really talking about my personal opinion on the movie, more about the general perception. It's hard to get a cinematic universe rolling when your headline character's solo movie received more hate than the worst movie from your competitor. It's even worse when that is considered your "best" movie for several years (until Wonder Woman breathed some life into the DCEU).

    It's obvious that the public likes Wonder Woman, or at least the way her movie was done. Again, I'm not a movie expert, but whatever they captured in that movie, they should try to expand it to others. Marvel has their "formula" which works wonders. The DCEU needs to find theirs.
    "Okay, Robin. Together, we're gonna punch these guys so hard, words describing the impact are gonna spontaneously materialize out of thin air."
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    No. Seriously, what the fuck, hell no. This is EXACTLY why DC Failed so hard in establishing a decent Superman reboot. The Dark Knight should NEVER have been used as a template to attempt to set the tone for the DCU.

    Gotham does NOT set the tone for the entire DC universe. Gotham is Gotham. Metropolis is Metropolis. The two characters of Superman and Batman literally exist as polar opposites of each other tone wise, which is evident in everything about the characters in the comic books from the way they are drawn, to the way their cities look, right down to the villians that they fight and the way they each individually approach solving problems. Marvel did this right. They did not try to make every single movie follow the same tone or setting. Every movie is different, yet still fits pretty much seamlessly into the whole.

    DC fucked shit up because they have tried to shoehorn their ENTIRE universe into the Tone set by Batman, and seem to think that the entire world of DC Earth somehow is just a giant extension of Gotham city... Pretty much every single movie in their existing Extended Universe up to this point has been needlessly Dark, Gritty and Grim (with the exception of Wonder Woman, which struck a pretty much perfect balance in it's setting as a War Movie) and they are only FINALLY pulling their heads out of their asses with Aquaman.
    It should have, and could have. MoS was pretty good considering. DC sucks at making comic book movies. DC is pretty good at making good movies with comic book characters.

  11. #51
    Herald of the Titans Thekri's Avatar
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    I think what the DCEU really needs is an identity. More importantly it has to embrace being that identity. A film that trys to be something it is not tends to suck, hard. For example, look at the latest Tarzan, which was trying to be a silly movie about a man that gets in fist fights with gorillas... and a harsh reminder of the atrocities connected with colonialism. Either could have been a good movie, but it had no idea what it is, so it sucked, hard.

    The DCEU is essentially that on a larger scale. It reinvents itself constantly, and the mood whiplash kills the whole thing, because you never know what you are looking at. The DC universe does just fine when it sticks to something, the Nolan Batman movies killed at the box office. Wonder Woman did well too, because at least internally to its own movie, it had an identity that was made clear from the trailer to the credits. The rest of the universe... well has been all over the place.

    What I would do is sit down with a complete team, and figure out the core identity of each aspect, and that isn't too hard to do. Superman is hopeful, just, good, and idealistic, he is a serious character, but not dark. Wonder Woman is hopeful, determined, and a lot more relaxed and humorous, she is also feminine, while still being strong. Batman is broody, dark, serious, but still dedicated to good, and justice. Each character should carry that strong theme in their independent films, and then use the contrast in the ensemble films. It isn't like Marvel, where it feels like every character is essentially the same, with an entire universe full of attractive, wisecracking, smartass tough guys.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    I know, right. If they had sent the SS up against Zod, or even one of his Kryptonian minions, every single one of them would have died in under a minute. The Pyro guy and Sorceress maybe would have lasted 2 or 3.
    Sorceress would have ripped them apart,Kryptonians have almost no resistance to magic,the rest would have been toast though.

  13. #53
    Killed Superman in the first movie and then build the first story arch ending with his return. The character movies would focus on franchise characters filling the void left by Superman, but not dwell on it, to make everything overtly morose.

    Edit: Superman has to be the center piece, but he is also an anchor. DCEU needed to maintain him as the center, but also get rid of him to not be an anchor. He needed to be sacrificed to make new character seem stronger and give the over all arch a sense of progression towards a greater good. You can also go all political and have the substory be the hunt for the ultimate weapon, that is Superman.
    Last edited by Felya; 2018-12-20 at 04:33 PM.
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  14. #54
    Immortal Beazy's Avatar
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    I would have cast Jason M as Lobo, not AquaMan.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    I would have cast Jason M as Lobo, not AquaMan.
    Oh man... you don’t want to know what DC did to Lobo... lipstick Lobo...



    The old Lobo is already back, with lipstick Lobo being the only being not saved from the yellow lantern and is floating in space, inside of a glass tube. Oh... I get the glass tube, lipstick joke... took me a sec...
    Last edited by Felya; 2018-12-20 at 04:46 PM.
    Entropy won't yield to you.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf

  16. #56
    The Lightbringer Blade Wolf's Avatar
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    Do not make a cinematic universe when you don't have a cinematic universe.
    "when i'm around you i'm like a level 5 metapod. all i can do is harden!"

    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    The people who cry for censorship aren't going to be buying the game anyway. Censoring it, is going to piss off the people who were going to buy it.
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    I would have cast Jason M as Lobo, not AquaMan.
    I did not even consider that and now I can't not see him as Lobo.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by McFuu View Post
    It should have, and could have. MoS was pretty good considering. DC sucks at making comic book movies. DC is pretty good at making good movies with comic book characters.
    Actually, no. Other than Batman (under Nolan) and Wonderwoman (which was pretty much an accident), the current DC movies have a terrible track record of doing either. Both Superman movies were medeocre to awful, both as Comic Book movies AND as Superman movies. Same with Justice league. Most of which I blame on the fact that absolutely none of the suits running the DC movies division actually understand or properly appreciate either comic books OR the characters that the books are about, and other than for Wonderwoman, are unwilling to put directors in charge of their movies who understand either.
    Last edited by Surfd; 2018-12-21 at 05:15 AM.

  19. #59
    The problems start at the fact that there really isn't a good starting spot. Because of the Nolan trilogy being so close to the next film it jumbled the chronology. Along with the CW universe it just felt like no one knew where the story really was as viewers.

    So taking Man of Steel as movie one I would have done a few things. I would have kept the story, despite not really liking Zod, but I would have had Luthor be in it already and with a different casting. I like bald, super tough guy, super smart, and super rich Luthor from the comics, I would have used him. I would have toned down the dark on it though, I'd keep Pa Kent dying of a heart attack and being less keep yourself in the closet Clark. I wouldn't have killed Zod and I would have shown Superman preventing and mitigating a lot more of the damage (ice breath for fires etc). I would have also mixed in some Bruce Wayne (maybe an interview for Clark or something of that nature, but really it being nods to Bats checking out this Superman guy)

    Next, I would have released Wonder Woman. Change nothing about this movie, thought it was completely fine. Done an after credits of her in the modern era seeing something Superman did.

    Then Aquaman, haven't seen it, but whatever, introduce him get it out of the way.

    Then I'd drop the Batman movie. It start mostly as a Batman flick, probably use Penguin and Luthor as my two main bad guys. Batman battling some street level crime while Luthor goes on a Super Heroes/Vigilantes are bad while he runs for President. Bruce battles him in some way on the front end while taking out Penguin who was being funded by Luthor. Batman makes contact with Superman to discuss this whole Luthor thing. Keep traditional dark Batman tone.

    Drop a Flash film in the mix here.

    Then drop a Batman Superman team up. Let Luthor win the election, set him up as the long run big bad. Maybe Brainiac/Gorilla Grod/something have Luthor be the reason.

    Drop Cyborg film. Darkseid stuff tossed in

    Drop GL film. Darkseid stuff tossed in

    Drop JL film, now bring in Doomsday. Have Luthor Swoop in at the Death of Supes yadda yadda yadda you see where I'm going.


    The problem for DCEU is that they just went too hard too fast and blew the load. There is some questionable casting. A mix of too recent Batman films. Too many TV shows unrelated borrowing characters. Hell you could even skip a Justice League movie all together and just do solos or small team-ups (probably the better route). The best thing Marvel did was pace themselves with their releases and intro of characters.
    Last edited by Zoldor; 2018-12-21 at 05:36 AM.

  20. #60
    Deleted
    A Lobo movie might be amazing, if it was made like Deadpool; by people who love the comic, with someone in the role who has always loved the character, and basically is the character.

    Of course, apparently it's Michael Bay. So, 1/10 before it comes out. Michael Bay is the big budget Uwe Boll nowadays, it seems.

    Also, shouldn't this thread be here instead: https://www.mmo-champion.com/forums/...ws-Music-Books
    Last edited by mmoc3ff0cc8be0; 2018-12-21 at 07:21 AM.

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