Loot Systems In Classic

[Deficineiron]

Seconded.

I have thought some on the raid loot system in classic, and have a very hard time imagining this not being an area blizzard will find a 'need' to fix or a new engine feature they cannot unfix. 2-3 items on a 40 man boss, once a week, as the only gearing method, on a game engine that already has personal loot and other new systems built-in?

Personally I expect boss drop quantity to increase notably (5?), and possibly an alternate incremental gearing system alongside it. I try to imagine a/b releasing a game a player can raid every week a few nights a week or whatever, and not get an upgrade at all in several weeks (RNG-possible old-style), and all I come up with is someone in the accessibility directorate having a stroke.

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The loot system was awesome as it made the loot really rare and hard to get. This made people really dedicated in order to get loot.

Most important is that it will be hard to pug, no more "join the 1-2 bosses I am not loot saved and then leave". Here lockouts are back to REAL lockouts and you can't just join what YOU need, you need to be dedicated.

or not, it could be boss-specific saves, since they are using the modern engine.

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Classic is looking more distant from Vanilla by the day, especially by using a BFA / Legion api and that's not a good thing, not to mention Classic could destroy retail WoW's popularity as a rival. But when I dare to peek at topics like this I always end up wondering if Blizz will abandon Classic when development gets this complicated, including loot issues.

yes, wondering, given a/b\s track record, is not only reasonable, but almost expected. I think what we are supposed to do is judge blue by what it says, not by what it has spent the last 10 years doing.

[garicasha]

At the beginning there will be very little loot, but since the loot will just pile up for years it'll eventually be plenty...there's no need to accelerate it.

Old-style lockouts are still in the modern engine.

I think people will have the most fun if they think of classic as a new game inspired by vanilla. Being based on the modern API was clearly necessary for support / bug / anti-exploit reasons, but it will definitely change the look and feel of the game.

[Vankrys]

i wonder how chill will the playerbase be. It's not like wow classic is the bleeding edge content, that people want to see brand new encounter, those encounter are well known by now. Given that, i feel the loot drama will not be as bad as it was back in vanilla.

[Ehrenpanzer]

There is absolutly no reason for this wall of text.

The loot system was shit. Expect to raid for months and months before getting your full set. No way around it unless everyone is willing to funnel all their gear to you.

So...... like how it is now... or used to be... except now you have to hope an item to drop at all for you? oh.. and titanforging...oh and that item has to actually be the thing you want...

Guessing you were some shit raider, or Vanilla raider pretender, butthurt your guild didn't give you "X" item simply by virtue of being there.... Vanilla raiding was NOT about YOU PERSONALLY getting loot, it was about the GROUP as a whole getting better, at least it was in the guilds that werent shit... maybe you just had a bad guild...

[Tommi]

I hope they use personal loot. Can't wait to see the autism kick off if they do......

[Deleted]

Council is the de facto best system, but it relies on people being fair, honest and reasonable. That is why it does not work for many guilds. It also scales badly, when you start getting more loot, more raid members and if your roster is ever changing.

EPGP is also a pretty good system, super easy to automate these days, and works well with less "tight knit" groups. That said, no loot system will save you from bad luck.

[Vankrys]

what is wrong with people in this forum.... I was stating the obvious. People raid for months in vanilla to complete their sets unless they got very lucky.

i don't understand your anger about loot system. You say it was shit, but it has been the same for a decade. Raid leader is a master looter, distribute loot according to guild's rule.

Now, guild's rules are up to the guild. it has nothing to do with the game.

[Alkizon]

There is absolutly no reason for this wall of text.

The loot system was shit. Expect to raid for months and months before getting your full set. No way around it unless everyone is willing to funnel all their gear to you.

I think there's something to be said for loot being harder to get than it is now, but there's also some pros. Many modern encounters hinge on having one of class X, and loot being easy to acquire makes it far more practical to gear that person up in a hurry if you didn't have one on the roster.

What I think was genuinely bad about vanilla loot though was how complicated it was. The power of certain stats and their interactions, such as intellect / spirit / mp5...it wasn't necessarily hard for people to know about their own class, but when there was competition for rings and necklaces and ALL the casters were going for it with class officers that weren't even healers trying to steer the discussion...it made it very difficult to casually figure out who needed it most.

Nowadays you can pretty much guarantee that anything 15 ilvls higher is an upgrade, except for maybe one or two outliers that are easy to understand, such as fire mages needing crit. (Do they still need it in BfA?)

The other good thing about loot being easier to get is that roster turnover is much less soul crushing than it was in vanilla.

You forget, that it was certain form of time gate mechanic, among other things, and it was completely logical in terms of world design: there was no such idiocy that is happening with items now (as well as their gradual, but inevitable transformation into frank garbage - +/+(+/+/+), together with very dictatorial and disagreeable with already mentioned normal world design rules for it distribution).

what is wrong with people in this forum.... I was stating the obvious. People raid for months in vanilla to complete their sets unless they got very lucky.

People aren't offended by obvious part of what you said, you're deeply mistaken, or just trying to focus everyone’s attention on this moment (because, in general, I don’t see that someone tells you anything even partly important about it). People're offended just by that you called it “shit” (since this part isn't true), while modern replacement system can dare to give good odds to any other at this (shitty) indicator.

Is that more clear?

i don't understand your anger about loot system. You say it was shit, but it has been the same for a decade. Raid leader is a master looter, distribute loot according to guild's rule.

Now, guild's rules are up to the guild. it has nothing to do with the game.

As you already could understand: it works "a little" different now.

[Vankrys]

It wasn’t the same.

Back in vanilla, u get 2 drops per boss and 40 people fighting for it.

This translates to a system where ut takes a looong time to actually get what you want. And you could go for months without getting to see your tier set from blackwing for example.

This is why i called it a shitty system by today standard

i know, i play since beta, i lived it. But we had the same system (master loot) up till wod. I became casual in legion, used personal loot in pug essentially.
what you describe is the rate of drop, but the system is the same.

Typically, in a week, we killed 6-7 bosses since only ragnaros was challenging without enough fire resistance, + onyxia and eventually some world boss. With the BOE and craft, count on 15-20 piece of usable loot a week, that means, in average one new piece every 2-3 weeks. (i say usable because damn that cenarius gear that keeps on dropping with druid in raid)

We have something like 17 slot, that make about 40 weeks to get fully decked out, a lot less if you factor zul gurub gear (and dungeon blue superior to tier one because vanilla wacky itemization), so 30 weeks maybe (7 month).

sounds about right.

[babyback]

i wonder how chill will the playerbase be. It's not like wow classic is the bleeding edge content, that people want to see brand new encounter, those encounter are well known by now. Given that, i feel the loot drama will not be as bad as it was back in vanilla.

It will be on the same level as it is now. The whole attitude towards the game and meta gameplay has changed since vanilla. In vanilla no one really cared if you didn’t play your class in a super optimal way or you died a few times in a dungeon. Come classic the toxicity and flaming will be much more apparent than it was 15 years ago.

[Vankrys]

It will be on the same level as it is now. The whole attitude towards the game and meta gameplay has changed since vanilla. In vanilla no one really cared if you didn’t play your class in a super optimal way or you died a few times in a dungeon. Come classic the toxicity and flaming will be much more apparent than it was 15 years ago.

That's true. Also, now you have sophisticated addon that allow you to analyse on the fly who failed, who subpar dps, who slacks during trash/boss, who doesn't dispell etc...

It's both a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing because the first step to become better is to know where you failed, but also a curse because people shame you when you are on your learning curve.

[dcc626]

The loot system was awesome as it made the loot really rare and hard to get. This made people really dedicated in order to get loot.

Most important is that it will be hard to pug, no more "join the 1-2 bosses I am not loot saved and then leave". Here lockouts are back to REAL lockouts and you can't just join what YOU need, you need to be dedicated.

depends on the people i suppose. people on retail are complaining at how long it takes to save for azerite gear on the vendor. how will they feel about months without particular drops.

will be interesting to watch the drama.

[Battlebeard]

I have thought some on the raid loot system in classic, and have a very hard time imagining this not being an area blizzard will find a 'need' to fix or a new engine feature they cannot unfix. 2-3 items on a 40 man boss, once a week, as the only gearing method, on a game engine that already has personal loot and other new systems built-in?

Personally I expect boss drop quantity to increase notably (5?), and possibly an alternate incremental gearing system alongside it. I try to imagine a/b releasing a game a player can raid every week a few nights a week or whatever, and not get an upgrade at all in several weeks (RNG-possible old-style), and all I come up with is someone in the accessibility directorate having a stroke.

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or not, it could be boss-specific saves, since they are using the modern engine.

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yes, wondering, given a/b\s track record, is not only reasonable, but almost expected. I think what we are supposed to do is judge blue by what it says, not by what it has spent the last 10 years doing.

We can only pray they don't implement boss-specific locks. Getting 40man to begin with was HARD back in the day. Finding new people every boss cause they are loot saved will make raids take, I swear, 10 hours to do full clears.

Not to mention how absolutely awfully boring the "jump into the bosses you need" mentality of retail is. I hate the way the game works atm, when I raid, I want fresh raids that don't stop until the last boss is dead.

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depends on the people i suppose. people on retail are complaining at how long it takes to save for azerite gear on the vendor. how will they feel about months without particular drops.

will be interesting to watch the drama.

Yes, unecessary drama, cause I don't think people who try this game realize what they are attempting. One can't complain about an intended system. "gearing is slow, wue wue" will flood the forums and the complainers wont realize it's suppose to be that way and the people who begged for these servers for years WANT it this way.

But sadly, the game is not just for us vanilla purist fans who begged for years, it's gonna be mainstream, to make more money. And it will be interesting to see if Blizzard mess this up or not. If they cave in to the general population and turn away the hardcore fans, the result might be catastrophical, and it should be, cause this might sound selfish, but these servers are for the vanilla purist fanboys, not for the general public, that's gods honest truth!

[Echocho]

Turn up for farm nights and skip progress raids for the first month FTW

After which you would still be at zero DKP and have to work yourself up a couple of raids before you win something. Or you win a lot of items nobody else wants and is forced to grind DKP for months before you win anything again. Great plan.

[Kralljin]

depends on the people i suppose. people on retail are complaining at how long it takes to save for azerite gear on the vendor. how will they feel about months without particular drops.

will be interesting to watch the drama.

Some will complain or just leave, as always.

However, others will simply adjust to the speed you are gearing sooner or later.
If you don't speed through every 5 Man within minutes, you are not going to expect to be in full blue gear within a day, it's that simple.

Fire grows hungrier the more it's fed, in a way.

The issue with the Azerite is simply any other slot basically can be acquired at a rather quick pace, yet with Azerite you are bound to the Weekly raid lockout and Weekly cache (or used to).

[AeneasBK]

After which you would still be at zero DKP and have to work yourself up a couple of raids before you win something. Or you win a lot of items nobody else wants and is forced to grind DKP for months before you win anything again. Great plan.

If you play zero sum, then you gain a lot more DKP for being there on a farm night and not getting any loot than being there on a progress night and not getting any loot.

[Kuja]

And is ninja looting again a thing? Or can you only need roll for BOP stuff you can equip, and make it BOP if it's BOE?