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  1. #61
    The Lightbringer Ahovv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Oh no question if it is an opinion thing, but the way they wrote it out made it sound like that is was a known thing that it was the best, which we all know was bs.

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    Sure it had a 'good' playerbase, but it wasn't the best on the market at any point, which is what I was saying. And they fucked up things well before Storm Legion imo.
    The best available MMO, then. That's what I really meant, not stat-wise. At one point in its history I'm convinced it was the best MMO around. Too bad they fucked it up.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    The best available MMO, then. That's what I really meant, not stat-wise. At one point in its history I'm convinced it was the best MMO around. Too bad they fucked it up.
    The "best" at what though? Because history disagrees with this statement.

    That said, I can agree that it was amazing when it launched, had great potential and I still think the soul system in it is one of the best character defining/ progression systems out there.

    The problem, for me, was that because of the ability to macro your core rotations the game play for nearly every class could be simplified down to just mashing a few buttons endlessly. The only role where that's not true is obviously healer due to how reactionary it is but for DPS and tanks you could just mash your core rotation macro and do respectable if not top DPS.

    That and the core game play draw was Rifts....which were almost all the same and after a while just became super annoying because they disrupted the questing.

    This is even before they screwed up the game by introducing one of the worst F2P models I've ever seen in a game and monetizing the shit out of everything.

    I played on and off every once and a while before Storm Legion, then I got Storm Legion played for a few weeks and I don't think I've ever been back since.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    The "best" at what though? Because history disagrees with this statement.
    Putting out tons of pretty high quality content at a lightning pace. They had pretty meaty patches almost every month for quite a while, and if you combined 3 together they'd be equal to/greater than a usual quarterly WoW patch. They also had amazing communication and interaction with their community and were super quick to respond to tons of feedback, Elrar is still one of my all time favorite CM's both in terms of his ability to affect positive change via acting as a conduit for info between devs/community and in terms of his attitude and how he interacted with players.

    Seriously, of all the MMO's I've played over the years (which is just about every major/mid-sized MMO and a fuckton of smaller ones) since WoW (and EQ1 before that), the first year of Chocolate Rift was probably one of the best supported MMO's I can remember.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    That and the core game play draw was Rifts....which were almost all the same and after a while just became super annoying because they disrupted the questing.
    Sorta kinda. Rifts were a big part, but via zonewide events they helped trigger that provided great rewards if they were cleared. But realistically, it was a raiding-focused game from day-1. Open world rifts were nice, but it was very obvious that it was very firmly a WoW-esque second generation MMO focused on the raiding gear treadmill. There were probably more raids released than new rift types/zone events added in chocolate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    This is even before they screwed up the game by introducing one of the worst F2P models I've ever seen in a game and monetizing the shit out of everything.
    IMO early on it was one of the best in the industry. Yes, literally everything was monetized, but you didn't need 99.9% of it since it was stuff you could also buy in-game. What the cash shop unintentionally did was make it way easier to buy a ton of stuff without actually needing to go to the appropriate vendor : P

    But beyond the aggressive monetization of stuff in-game, the model was incredibly fair. Minimal player restrictions on things like bags etc., no content restrictions at all, and I think the only class restrictions were for the new SL souls, which is pretty dang fair. It got worse over time as their financials were in worse and worse shape and they could invest less in game content and focused more on monetization (still salty about NT monetization), but early on it was actually super awesome once you realized that the aggressive monetization was mostly a smokescreen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I played on and off every once and a while before Storm Legion, then I got Storm Legion played for a few weeks and I don't think I've ever been back since.
    SL was a big step down in quality compared to chocolate, and their push outward (they were working on Defiance at this point) seemed to take some resources away from their sole moneymaker at the time. They never recovered from their stumbles in SL : /

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Putting out tons of pretty high quality content at a lightning pace. They had pretty meaty patches almost every month for quite a while, and if you combined 3 together they'd be equal to/greater than a usual quarterly WoW patch. They also had amazing communication and interaction with their community and were super quick to respond to tons of feedback, Elrar is still one of my all time favorite CM's both in terms of his ability to affect positive change via acting as a conduit for info between devs/community and in terms of his attitude and how he interacted with players.

    Seriously, of all the MMO's I've played over the years (which is just about every major/mid-sized MMO and a fuckton of smaller ones) since WoW (and EQ1 before that), the first year of Chocolate Rift was probably one of the best supported MMO's I can remember.



    Sorta kinda. Rifts were a big part, but via zonewide events they helped trigger that provided great rewards if they were cleared. But realistically, it was a raiding-focused game from day-1. Open world rifts were nice, but it was very obvious that it was very firmly a WoW-esque second generation MMO focused on the raiding gear treadmill. There were probably more raids released than new rift types/zone events added in chocolate.



    IMO early on it was one of the best in the industry. Yes, literally everything was monetized, but you didn't need 99.9% of it since it was stuff you could also buy in-game. What the cash shop unintentionally did was make it way easier to buy a ton of stuff without actually needing to go to the appropriate vendor : P

    But beyond the aggressive monetization of stuff in-game, the model was incredibly fair. Minimal player restrictions on things like bags etc., no content restrictions at all, and I think the only class restrictions were for the new SL souls, which is pretty dang fair. It got worse over time as their financials were in worse and worse shape and they could invest less in game content and focused more on monetization (still salty about NT monetization), but early on it was actually super awesome once you realized that the aggressive monetization was mostly a smokescreen.



    SL was a big step down in quality compared to chocolate, and their push outward (they were working on Defiance at this point) seemed to take some resources away from their sole moneymaker at the time. They never recovered from their stumbles in SL : /
    I don't disagree with any of this, fundamentally, I just never felt that anything they did was enough to overcome the issues I had with it at it's core, which were mainly the oversimplified game play due ot your ability to macro your core rotations and the VERY apparent gear treadmill as you pointed out. I know most MMO's are a gear treadmill, but most of the ones I play have something else going on that doesn't make it feel so apparent for a while at least, there comes a point where that's literally all you're doing, but once it gets there I usually unsub unti the next major patch when more of the "other stuff" is introduced.

    I don't remember the Storm Legion souls being monetized any more than a new class is in WoW/ any other MMO that introduces them in a new expansion, you just had to buy and register the expansion to get access to them. NOW, since they really don't sell the expansions that way they monetized it through their in game shop, but at launch it was just part of buying the expansion.

    I really do miss it, as I remember leveling on both factions was entertaining and enjoyable but after a certain point i just couldn't stomach mashing 2-3 keys on the classes I played. I know I did it to myself by macroing the abilities but it's hard to pass up when that optimizes your game play and DPS output so much. Chloro/Harbinger Hybrid was one of my all time favorite classes to play both in and out of dungeons.

  5. #65
    The Lightbringer Ahovv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I don't disagree with any of this, fundamentally, I just never felt that anything they did was enough to overcome the issues I had with it at it's core, which were mainly the oversimplified game play due ot your ability to macro your core rotations and the VERY apparent gear treadmill as you pointed out. I know most MMO's are a gear treadmill, but most of the ones I play have something else going on that doesn't make it feel so apparent for a while at least, there comes a point where that's literally all you're doing, but once it gets there I usually unsub unti the next major patch when more of the "other stuff" is introduced.

    I don't remember the Storm Legion souls being monetized any more than a new class is in WoW/ any other MMO that introduces them in a new expansion, you just had to buy and register the expansion to get access to them. NOW, since they really don't sell the expansions that way they monetized it through their in game shop, but at launch it was just part of buying the expansion.

    I really do miss it, as I remember leveling on both factions was entertaining and enjoyable but after a certain point i just couldn't stomach mashing 2-3 keys on the classes I played. I know I did it to myself by macroing the abilities but it's hard to pass up when that optimizes your game play and DPS output so much. Chloro/Harbinger Hybrid was one of my all time favorite classes to play both in and out of dungeons.
    In Storm Legion (specifically mid 2013 to late 2014) the rotations were the most complex/fun of any MMO I've ever played. I had 20-30 keybinds depending on the class, and it was just really fun to learn and master each new spec.

    Nothing in WoW came close in terms of complexity + fun factor combined.

    The macros you describe were mostly just an artifact from the first year of Rift, before specs got more complex. Nobody in 2013 or 2014 would be caught dead spamming a macro unless you just didn't care about your performance.

  6. #66
    I'd argue that the specs becoming more complex, and the macros being nerfed, contributed to the decline of participation in the game. Even first year Rift was too difficult for casual players (Hammerknell was a blocker for them).
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  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    In Storm Legion (specifically mid 2013 to late 2014) the rotations were the most complex/fun of any MMO I've ever played. I had 20-30 keybinds depending on the class, and it was just really fun to learn and master each new spec.

    Nothing in WoW came close in terms of complexity + fun factor combined.

    The macros you describe were mostly just an artifact from the first year of Rift, before specs got more complex. Nobody in 2013 or 2014 would be caught dead spamming a macro unless you just didn't care about your performance.
    I honestly never lasted long enough to get to the level cap, I was still only leveling and the specs that I played (Cleric Druid/Shaman and Mage Harbinger/Chloro mainly) still functioned just fine using the macros. Granted, I had to make a few of them to make best use of the different skills but even in Storm Legion there were macros being circulated for classes that provided performance good enough for leveling and even dungeons...as far as I remember anyway.

    I don't doubt what you're saying, but it honestly doesn't line up with what I'm remembering from back then, but I wasn't hardcore into it and wasn't paying attention to performance. As long as I could quest and kill things reasonably well and wasn't dying, I was fine...I didn't really know better, it wasn't until a bit later with WoW and other games where I started really paying attention to actual performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I'd argue that the specs becoming more complex, and the macros being nerfed, contributed to the decline of participation in the game. Even first year Rift was too difficult for casual players (Hammerknell was a blocker for them).
    I'd agree with this a little I think. I do remember being inundated with abilities to use due to how the soul system worked. The macros were really one of the only ways for the average player to manage it all.

    As I said though, I wasn't paying attention to performance or whether I was being optimal or not, as long as it was functional I was fine with it.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I never picked it up because I figured it didn't stand a chance in the long run against WoW or ToR, and I'd hate to invest time and attachment in characters that are just going to get server wiped when they pull the plug, you know?
    If you had played in "chocolate" Rift, itwas totally worth it. SL was pretty good as well, right up to the F2P transition that they had previously promised would never happen. It was a great game before that, and still pretty good fun for a while after the transition. I do not regret the time I spent in "Chocolate" and SL, though NT was a pretty big letdown.

  9. #69
    RIFT being dead is so damn sad - I really enjoyed the support role and how the entire game played. Honestly, at the time - it played better than WoW even despite its heavy Macro usage (Until it was nerfed / changed). I really miss that role, no modern MMORPG that I know of actually has one.
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  10. #70
    Immortal Zandalarian Paladin's Avatar
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    I always felt like the biggest draw back from Rift was how unresponsive it felt. The physics and movements were clunky at best - that's what killed it for me.

    The universe drew me in, the lore had so much potential. I remember playing a lot of the huge city battleground at launch because it was incredible all around.

    That's another case of a MMO who tried to recreate what wow had and failed.
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  11. #71
    We can only hope that RIFTS gets made soon. That would be an awesome game, should it ever get made.
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  12. #72
    Is it actually dead though?

  13. #73
    Legendary! jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muajin76 View Post
    We can only hope that RIFTS gets made soon. That would be an awesome game, should it ever get made.
    RIFTS would be an unmitigated disaster, it's way too badly balanced to begin with.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

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