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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Considering that most games who started without had to patch in some sort of Trinity system, I would rather not.

    Even more so, I would love a 4th role in place for support.
    Question: how would you fit in a support role for things like M+, Arenas, etc? I feel like it would largely be limited compared to DPS in several situations and thus would be more unlikely to be taken on pug runs.

  2. #42
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    I've only ever made it to end game on another mmo and that was GW2 when it came out and I absolutely hated it. It was just a bunch of random stuff happening.

    Also if you want a spec that uses their shield as a weapon: Prot Paladin, they literally throw their shield like Captain America. Then backhand you in your face with it once it returns.

  3. #43
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    Abandoning it would be a bad idea. It works perfectly and flawlessly (which alone is a reason to not to abandon it: if it works, don't try to fix it), and sorts out clear roles which people can hone according to their own personal preferences.

    Class mechanics of certain other games are a complete clusterfuck with only a couple of "pure" classes and specs. You can see someone tanking, doing half the group's dps, and healing the whole group at the same time. Often groups are looking for a specific class to do a specific thing. That's not good design.
    Last edited by mmocd6a9ba639c; 2018-12-18 at 07:29 PM.

  4. #44
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    I think the holy trinity its fine.

    Blizzard should just split diferent speccs into diferent more specialized and unique classes.

    No more prot/fury/arms warriors... Split them into 3 diferent classes with unique talent trees more like the old style. But without 3 diferent to chose from.
    Make them noticible and unique talents with actually choices. Give us buffs... Lots and diferent.

    I dont see any class identity in current formats.

  5. #45
    Devs are creating game systems that people hate now. Getting rid of the Trinity would actually kill wow, the whole meme of "only thing that can kill wow is wow itself!" Sure wow will have its diehards, but most people will leave or play classic.

  6. #46
    EverQuest had 6-man groups where you ideally had 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 debuff/CC'er, and 3 dps (with each class being able to perform additional roles as needed) and it worked fine.

    The debuff/CC'er was typically more valuable than the healer, since mesmerizing (cc'ing) mobs was critical to not being overrun, and slowing/debuff'ing was the only way to prevent an average tank from being chewed up.

  7. #47
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    I would personally enjoy a variant approach on tanking how they did to Overwatch.

    Why couldn't paladins have a super shield that they can project (think Halls of Valor) creating an protective area behind them? Druids could lack having this barrier but maybe they'll have an ability that massively increases their hp and soaks a portion of all the damage done to his teammates around him.

    Warriors could do like Sonya in HOTS where they leap and create an LOS wall for a few seconds (just make sure to use your cds or else you might die from healers not being able to target you!). DKs having their AMZ-style ability to drastically reduce DoT style damage and negate a portion of direct damage.

    Monks, maybe something like Neji/Hinata's trigram style jutsu where they negate/deflect anything in a circle. It would be cool if it got "shot" from the circle and landed as an AOE on the ground nearby.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyvax View Post
    EverQuest had 6-man groups where you ideally had 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 debuff/CC'er, and 3 dps (with each class being able to perform additional roles as needed) and it worked fine.
    I would like to have 6 player groups in WoW. 1/1/4 would be nice for more dps to get in groups.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    I would like to have 6 player groups in WoW. 1/1/4 would be nice for more dps to get in groups.
    What i want is to return to vanilla / bc style 5 mans where the game didnt force roles on you at all so you could go 1 tank 2 heals 2 dps or 1 tank 2 dps 1 healer 1 offhealer or whatever you want. Forcibly role restricting to 1-1-3 or 1-1-4 sucks badly and modern 5 mans feel much more shallow compared to the old way.
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Considering that most games who started without had to patch in some sort of Trinity system, I would rather not.

    Even more so, I would love a 4th role in place for support.
    I'm not sure that's really possible given the player base and game direction. A support class would boil down to 2 components, supporting with buffs/debuffs and dps/healing. The thing is that we have had this in the past. Shaman, Paladin, and Druid all were more of a support model until Cata, even Shadow Priests fell into that catagory.

    Ultimately, the idea of a support class is great until people complain about not being able to be competitive with dps/heals. If you played Rift where support was an actual role, in non raid dungeons people expected the support player to set to a dps spec to make the run quicker. In raids, the support classes had extremely low skill ceilings and other than keeping buffs up, most of the healing/damage was inconsequential.

  11. #51
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    You just have to play GW2 to see how bad it is.

    There is a reason the trinity works. It promotes cooperation.
    GW2 turned those into boons and everyone brings different boons so you don't get one shot by bosses. But it is common to be one shot in GW2 and not getting why.

    Being hip and losing the trinity was one of the biggest mistakes GW2 did.
    Last edited by mmoc80be7224cc; 2018-12-18 at 08:12 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by americandavey View Post
    Devs are creating game systems that people hate now. Getting rid of the Trinity would actually kill wow, the whole meme of "only thing that can kill wow is wow itself!" Sure wow will have its diehards, but most people will leave or play classic.
    That would only keep wow alive for at least 2 years at best, wow vanilla was already a casual mmorpg compared to the competition back in the day
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  13. #53
    Yea, let's not fuck up with what works, 'eh?

    I have no interest whatsoever in destroying the few things that WoW still has going for it, the PvE group content in Mythic+ and Raiding.

    Lots of games out there without the trinity system.

  14. #54
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    Question: how would you fit in a support role for things like M+, Arenas, etc? I feel like it would largely be limited compared to DPS in several situations and thus would be more unlikely to be taken on pug runs.
    Support role, in WoW's system by Blizzard's words is not possible yet, just like removing the trinity. The only way to add a support role is to make it defined by being attached to a specc that can either DPS, Tank or Heal. Arenas it can easily function if the support is strong enough, just like tanks and healers can. For Mythic+, it won't have that much function unless again - depending on what kind of support tools it brings, else that is more about reaching a goal at higher pace than necessary. For raiding, it can easily be weaved in for fights of future contents again by depending on what toolsets.

    A support could be brought because they can assist in higher survival, high dmg buff or higher mobility for the raid - just examples from other games that has support roles.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhoria View Post
    I'm not sure that's really possible given the player base and game direction. A support class would boil down to 2 components, supporting with buffs/debuffs and dps/healing. The thing is that we have had this in the past. Shaman, Paladin, and Druid all were more of a support model until Cata, even Shadow Priests fell into that catagory.

    Ultimately, the idea of a support class is great until people complain about not being able to be competitive with dps/heals. If you played Rift where support was an actual role, in non raid dungeons people expected the support player to set to a dps spec to make the run quicker. In raids, the support classes had extremely low skill ceilings and other than keeping buffs up, most of the healing/damage was inconsequential.
    None were a true support model. Blizzard said themselves that they would like to make a true support class but just not able to with the current, just like removing the trinity. As I've said in the comment above this, it would for WoW's system have to be merged with one of the trinity.
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  15. #55
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    It would be nice to have more variety, like some tanks are soley focused on tanking - main tanks, then an off-tank who is more of a "bruiser" like in hots, where they have more utility/dmg and only tank for off-tanking.

    Then support specs instead of pure healing, ie discipline, could be reworked again to be more utility/support, but the problem would be why bring it, it either becomes mandatory b/c blizz makes it or no one brings one.

    The game just isn't built that way, they'd have to seriously change things drastically to a point where you HAVE to bring them, and then it feels good for no one.

    I don't think blizz will change it. It doesn't make sense, why fix it if it's not broken (granted blizz LOVES doing that). I get they need to innovate, but they need to innovate on things to keep us occupied, new evergreen content.
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Considering that most games who started without had to patch in some sort of Trinity system, I would rather not.

    Even more so, I would love a 4th role in place for support.
    Yea, that would be a cool tossup. make groups (balanced around) 1 tank, 1 heal, 1 support, 2 dps.

  17. #57
    The Unstoppable Force Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    I would tell them to stop being retards, or at the very least get their current shit under control before attempting to rework even more things.

    I haven't enjoyed a single one of the "no trinity"-MMORPGs however, so that could end badly.

  18. #58
    It's something I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard did, and would officially help me bury WoW for good as a game that has alienated its fanbase.

    What I want back is the feeling of the opposite, where each character is specifically their role and you are vulnerable without your allies. I can best compare it to FFXIV where the healer, tank, and DPS are all, with a few exceptions, fairly balanced in soloing in that almost everyone is poor at it, with some more hybrid-roles allowing players to be a sufficient lone wolf if that's what they specifically want (warrior and red mage).
    You are your role and you are good at that role, that role is engaging, but that's why you're brought to a raid and the importance of those roles and how they interact is how you can accomplish basically anything in the game. Tanks need healers because while tanks can take damage, they're not exceptional at recovering it. Healers need tanks because while healers are exceptional at restoring health, they're fragile and have limited MP pools (less so these days, but the point still stands). DPS need both of those roles, but they also need DPS because almost every boss has some semi-narrow enrage that can and will kill you without them, and DPS as a whole do significantly more damage than any tank or healer could.

    It works because they complement each other. WoW's roles do not do that at all. The tank is as good or better at restoring their own health as a healer is, the healer is just kinda there and mostly bored until shit hits the fan and then they blow a CD and frantically mash healing spells as much as they can. DPS are not nearly as fragile as they used to be in WoW, and virtually every class is designed to be good at surviving on their own these days.

    I miss the days of relying on your allies and needing each role. I see a DH soloing a +13 or more and while yes it's impressive it's also kind of sad that the game has strayed so far from the idea of your role mattering, and that role being engaging and fun. To see what I mean try going from playing a healer in a game like FFXIV to going back to WoW and healing and tell me they are even comparable in terms of enjoyment and engagement.

  19. #59
    I could imagine it for some game modes. But at least some others should have the trinity. I kinda missed it in Guild Wars 2 to be a "real" tank or healer (I know it kinda was possible).
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  20. #60
    /shrug

    I kind of hate the trinity system, especially healing. Being durable is something I can usually reconcile in my head and dps, well makes sense to inflict damage. Both of these are also involved in the actual fight for the most part. Healing though.. fuck that shit. Throwing around health and "undoing mistakes" always felt cheaty to me, also the way healing works in wow makes it more like a browser game than actually participating in the encounter. I couldn't stand it 13 years ago and I still just don't like it.

    A triage system for these cases would be more interesting imho, but this is a tab target mmo, so I probably shouldn't expect too much.

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