Eh? ESO and TOR both have trinity systems. Destiny 2 is a shooter so that's hardly a fair comparison (plus, if you want to get nitpicky, Titans have a tank ability, Hunters a cloak/DPS ability, and Warlocks a heal ability). Only Guild Wars is an MMO that actually works to remove the trinity and the feedback I got from it is mixed at the very best of times as they then require band-aids to get around the lack of tanks and healers and they basically soft implemented it in higher tier content.
WoW revolves around the trinity, in PvE at least. It allows players to specialize and do something they like. It's been 14 years, it works, and it ain't going nowhere.
TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.
I would HATE it.
IMO, you need all 3
I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
I already have GW2 for when I get tired of beating up a target dummy (healer) in pvp. In pve honestly you don't notice much difference between trinity or none, at least if you're a dps anyway. I still kinda mind my own business in both systems and trinity has no effect on me either way, though there is tank & heal in GW2 raids I guess not a lot of people know that.
I would 100% be down for no trinity in WoW pvp , would be much less cancer.. it feels like you're another instanced pve these days which is another reason BfA is trash lul.
The system the OP is proposing wouldn't be THAT different from what the game is like now. In many ways, it feel more epic. It's not 20 players beating up 1 big bad-guy with the help of some extra NPCs. It's 20 players defeating multitudes of enemies. You feel more like a hero.
The main difference would be no healer role. Personally I find healing to be the most boring role in the game. Can't do it. But a support role that focuses on buffs and debuffs would be a lot of fun...
I'd like to get away from the Trinity system... but this is one of those things people have so ingrained within them, won't want to change even if another system is superior in every way.
Would be a complete disaster. See GW2 clusterfuck dungeons.
The result is a poorly balanced game that either requires minmaxing to complete difficult content, or there is no difficult content.
GW2 tries this and that game has atrocious balance that leans on cookie cutter builds because there are archetype generalists that are far stronger than any niche/interesting build.
Do I think there should be solo content? Absolutely. Mage Tower, for example, was a huge success.
They could do solo scenarios and so forth. A solo campaign could be really fun and challenging.
Do I think they should scrap the "trinity"? No. There is no trinity, there are hybrids like Disc Priests who do damage and heal.
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There are fights that had those "multitudes of enemies." Mount Hyjal raid comes to mind immediately. Unless you meant another type of multitude fight.
I applauded blade and soul for going with tank+dps system. no boring healer classes. Every spec had a thing or two that could keep them alive. plus you have to execute the strategies good enough. If only this game was not designed for whales. I could spent money for a regular sub and occasional chests for item upgrades but it was still too much to keep up with.
in before somebody says but summoner is healer...yeahhhhh righttttttt... they would fist your ass into oblivion with their cat while tearing your flesh away from range.
Last edited by Gref; 2018-12-19 at 01:53 AM.
Why are you talking about builds? No one is talking about that but you. Of course some builds are better than others. WoW is like that now too.
The thread is discussing roles... which are outdated.
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This is not for solo content. This would be for team-play. Mount Hyjal still had 1 big boss you had to all wail on while it hit the tank... Things like threat, tanks, healers, and damage dealers are extremely old concepts introduced to meet limited technology... they're just so ingrained now, that most gamers can't picture how much better the game could be without them.
No thanks, more times than not it turn in to a HUGE zergfest.
Actually, I think they should add support/buff type classes.
Last edited by Azzurri; 2018-12-19 at 02:43 AM.
No thank you. The trinity is one of the few things that keep me playing WoW/FFXIV.
Personally, I like to heal and not to dps/tank except on rare occasions.
Mistweaver Monk | Holy Priest
WoW tried something like it in BC. But what happened? Lo and behold, WoW "Bard" players (i.e. Ele shamans/Ret paladins/Spriests, etc.) QQ'd to no end because they couldn't top DPS parses. Which led to WotLK's Grand Homogeneization, and here we are, where some classes/specs are still left out in the cold for high end content. And we lost a great deal of class uniqueness in the meantime.
I know how those played in BC, I mained a paladin back then and I personally loved it. I felt I had my own unique niches. Who's to blame for this though? Is it the community for crying? Or is it Blizzard for not putting their foot down and saying "You have all this utility and damage buffs for your team, you are doing a lot" and keeping it that way? It is hard to say. I wish they had stuck to the support mentality for some specs, heck, it might be a way to salvage some of the current dead specs, of which I don't know is, as I haven't played for roughly 2 months.
Also, what the fuck is going on with the notion "The trinity is an old concept"? You want Blizzard to completely turn WoW into a singleplayer game? This is beyond measure of stupid.
Last edited by spalernTJ; 2018-12-19 at 05:44 AM.
You should have seen the massive QQ wave back in Vanilla/BC. It was all about OMFG MUH RUTZ PALI BAD BAD DEEPZ MUH NO HEALIN BLZ FIX PLZ. Blizzard should have stuck to their guns and iterated on their hybrid specs design, which had improved considerably in BC (by comparison to Vanilla). But Activision happened, and all classes were homogenized in order to make raiding more "accessible", Kodick (not a typo)'s buzzword at the time.
Btw, the "holy Trinity" IS an old concept. That doesn't make it necessarily bad, though. The problem is that in its current iteration kills any sort of actual class diversity, which is in turn is made worse by the three prunes in a row that we've had to go through. And what do we have to show for it?
Well, it wasn't already so impossible taking based on game original design. I mean possibilities for individual characters RPG customization (classes+talents, characteristics). I don't agree that WoW didn’t have anything to do with D&D system back then. Exactly then it was possible since such system let hybrid classes exist, and what became of them now? What become with all various characteristics that not so much reinforced "absolute" indicators of characters strength, but more players' "role" choice, even if taking into account "holy trinity" (also, this isn't ultimate truth because I repeat - don't forget support, which is 4th)? That is, any class was able to at least partially fulfill not only role assigned to it by devs, and therefore even "holy trinity" based encounters design didn't severely limit group as a whole (unbalanced from current point of view) abilities (also).Soon-TM
It's a neat idea. But it would require an entirely different approach to PvE (and also PvP, to an extent) from Blizzard. I don't think that the current crop of devs is particularly interested in such a fundamental revamp, or that they're even able to pull it off. After all, they are only good at pruning and trinity-based raids.
Even DK, which appeared in WotLK (MoP monks weren't already), still confessed this "religion", because tanking/dd role completely depended on character RPG customization... but now... everything depends on chosen "spec" and no one care what player thinks about it (the whole "role" RPG part is integrated inside it and you can't change anything), we have only one opportunity to play - the way it was decided by Blizzard and nothing else (by the way, "gladiators" part was the only bright ray in dark realm of specs after "design cataclysm" that destroyed everything, but it was just an exception, and what became of them only proves my point). I'd call this: "MOBA mentality", but it won't be fair to game genre mentioned; in any case, this wasn't fully true for “first” DotA (much more depended on only possible customization there - collected items and their characteristics), but as for current - sorry, I'm not following latest trends in this direction, not a fan.
Moreover, each next tricky "direction" found by players, even within limits of this dictatorial system, continues to be actively cut off by devs. Don't you notice it? Even action and slasher games rarely, but sometimes have more flexible and very often much more thoughtful (ideologically/fantasy) system.
It came to the point that such behavior became a kind of meme for this game:
- "Fun detected, fun nerfed/removed!"
Conclusion: not "holy trinity" based design oppress current system, but poor and incoherent RPG customization one.
ps. I'm not directly answered to quoted person, but more expressed my general thoughts on affected issue, sorry
Last edited by Alkizon; 2020-10-27 at 10:34 AM.
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