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  1. #1

    New Elemental thread on damage and popularity

    It’s nice to see more Ele running around. I’m very use to just seeing myself in groups. I am enjoying some of the changes, for sure. But I’m still considerably lower than what I’ve summed at. Anyone else seeing these kind of trends? And when did crit become the overall better secondary stat? What are your %’s looking like? I’ve been going back and forth between resto and ele and I enjoy do’s much more, but I’m still feeling lackluster, especially considering I’m at around a 366 ilevel

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Quickie View Post
    But I’m still considerably lower than what I’ve summed at. Anyone else seeing these kind of trends? And when did crit become the overall better secondary stat?
    Crit has been a not terrible stat since WoD and became even better since Mid Legion.

    Rule of thumb, if Lava burst sucks, Crit gets very good.

  3. #3
    I could count the number of other elemental shaman I saw out in the world on one hand before 8.1.

    I've seen more than that in the past 24 hours alone since the patch.

    Seems like the shaman feel good factor is back for many who abandoned it.

  4. #4
    Damage is higher but the spec is possibly the clunkiest of all specs. With the new raid around the corner it remains to be seen if the damage can overcome itemisation and mechanics, I won’t hold my breath.
    Last edited by Razaron; 2018-12-21 at 08:01 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Razaron View Post
    Damage is higher but the spec is possibly the clunkiest of all specs. With the new raid around the corner it remains to be seen if the damage can overcome itemisation and mechanics, I won’t hold my breath.
    100% agree. DPS increased, but, I dont think it increased enough. Parse and Sims are meh, and they dont show what "actual" damage is. Depending on gear, and how the fights actually end up on launch of raid tier will determine. But.... I have seem so many more shams around, which is nice. Still, super clunky playstyle now, almost like they are forcing some particular look, or turret playstyle.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Quickie View Post
    100% agree. DPS increased, but, I dont think it increased enough. Parse and Sims are meh, and they dont show what "actual" damage is. Depending on gear, and how the fights actually end up on launch of raid tier will determine. But.... I have seem so many more shams around, which is nice. Still, super clunky playstyle now, almost like they are forcing some particular look, or turret playstyle.
    With the removal of gust of wind it's obvious they are trying to force a turret play style onto shams.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Quickie View Post
    100% agree. DPS increased, but, I dont think it increased enough. Parse and Sims are meh, and they dont show what "actual" damage is. Depending on gear, and how the fights actually end up on launch of raid tier will determine. But.... I have seem so many more shams around, which is nice. Still, super clunky playstyle now, almost like they are forcing some particular look, or turret playstyle.
    I have 374ele, and I am already almost outperforming my 384 fire mage... And I am ducking good mage... Ele has some crazy sustained dps now, and it is getting even better on m+. I was doing some +15keys on shamy and I was not falling behind much better geared players.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Quickie View Post
    It’s nice to see more Ele running around. I’m very use to just seeing myself in groups. I am enjoying some of the changes, for sure. But I’m still considerably lower than what I’ve summed at. Anyone else seeing these kind of trends? And when did crit become the overall better secondary stat? What are your %’s looking like? I’ve been going back and forth between resto and ele and I enjoy do’s much more, but I’m still feeling lackluster, especially considering I’m at around a 366 ilevel

    This is a learn to play moment for you. And you're in the right place.

    Here is what should happen.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9pjZh#fight=16

    That is an elemental shaman taking out a top parsing warrior and monk in heroic Uldir. 3 clearly good players, and the elemental shaman wins out.

    Keep practicing, try and copy the spec of this guy I linked for current fights.

    Thanks
    Chase

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    This is a learn to play moment for you. And you're in the right place.

    Here is what should happen.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9pjZh#fight=16

    That is an elemental shaman taking out a top parsing warrior and monk in heroic Uldir. 3 clearly good players, and the elemental shaman wins out.

    Keep practicing, try and copy the spec of this guy I linked for current fights.

    Thanks
    Chase
    i would love to say that this proves that we are good but usually when a prepatch buff comes in and we feel powerfull the moment the new raid drops and everyone is fully geared we are at the bottom once more also he has like 386 ilv and doing heroic blowing bosses without mechanics without as much movement. did we get a buff in dmg ? yeah. is that really all we wanted ? not really

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Straga21 View Post
    i would love to say that this proves that we are good but usually when a prepatch buff comes in and we feel powerfull the moment the new raid drops and everyone is fully geared we are at the bottom once more also he has like 386 ilv and doing heroic blowing bosses without mechanics without as much movement. did we get a buff in dmg ? yeah. is that really all we wanted ? not really
    God stop crying, right now against similar geared Orange parsed Monks and Warriors, an ele shammy is beating them. That is all that matters in a raid environment.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    God stop crying, right now against similar geared Orange parsed Monks and Warriors, an ele shammy is beating them. That is all that matters in a raid environment.
    All that matters for parsing during farm when you're allowed to stand still and ignore mechanics* - fixed that for you.

    Elemental might do dmg, but movement and survivability are still beyond awful and so elemental will continue to be a complete liability for mythic progress. It's a joke.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihiel View Post
    All that matters for parsing during farm when you're allowed to stand still and ignore mechanics* - fixed that for you.

    Elemental might do dmg, but movement and survivability are still beyond awful and so elemental will continue to be a complete liability for mythic progress. It's a joke.
    dont even bother he has another troll post under this one i just didnt notice it was him and tried to use actual logic. But yeah pretty much pointless to watch farm content 40 ilevels above the requirements get blasted with half the mechanics skipped

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihiel View Post
    All that matters for parsing during farm when you're allowed to stand still and ignore mechanics* - fixed that for you.

    Elemental might do dmg, but movement and survivability are still beyond awful and so elemental will continue to be a complete liability for mythic progress. It's a joke.
    A passive that is healing you for 30% of your hp every 40s, self heals, 2x 40% dmg red cds, one on 2min CD one on 5, 20% dmg reduction in wolf form + huge self heal with traits. Do you even play Ele? Ale survi is on pair with all other range casters now.

    Ele is currently THE fotm range dps with the best st and aoe dps.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    A passive that is healing you for 30% of your hp every 40s
    Only heals for 20% and only procs once you drop below 35%.
    As an active, it would be more useful for PvE, as the "cheat death" interaction was removed AFAIK, it won't save you if you take like a hit that deals 110% of your max HP at 100%.

    Second, you gotta skip Windrush totem for that, which is kinda useful on some encounters.

    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    self heals
    Which heal for a bloody shit outside of PvP* (*assuming you run Swelling waves)

    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    2x 40% dmg red cds, one on 2min CD one on 5
    One is a talent and is blocked out while you use FE / SE.

    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    20% dmg reduction in wolf form + huge self heal with traits.
    Because nothing is more enjoyable than sitting 5 seconds in GW for 20% reduction, it's niche at best, you solely take Spirit Wolf because the other options are considered even worse in PvE.
    Both Spirit wolf and Pack Spirit are nice and all, but you simply do not want to sit in GW for an extended amount of time for obvious reasons.


    I don't think Ele defense is terrible, but you just basically list anything related to defense and think they'll add up to something good.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Only heals for 20% and only procs once you drop below 35%.
    As an active, it would be more useful for PvE, as the "cheat death" interaction was removed AFAIK, it won't save you if you take like a hit that deals 110% of your max HP at 100%.

    Second, you gotta skip Windrush totem for that, which is kinda useful on some encounters.



    Which heal for a bloody shit outside of PvP* (*assuming you run Swelling waves)



    One is a talent and is blocked out while you use FE / SE.



    Because nothing is more enjoyable than sitting 5 seconds in GW for 20% reduction, it's niche at best, you solely take Spirit Wolf because the other options are considered even worse in PvE.
    Both Spirit wolf and Pack Spirit are nice and all, but you simply do not want to sit in GW for an extended amount of time for obvious reasons.


    I don't think Ele defense is terrible, but you just basically list anything related to defense and think they'll add up to something good.
    You don't need anything better than that. Please list one mechanic in BFA that you HAVE to use CD on it to do not die. I will help you, there is no such mechanic. Blizzard learned them lesson from Legion where people where getting one shotted by abilities that cannot be dodged.

    Also you are saying that Ele survi is bad. So why Ele becomes fotm in m+ where survive is MUCzh more important than during raid? In raid you don't need Def cds, only situation where you have to use them is:
    a) you are horrible and can't dodge mechanics
    b) u use then to help your healers save mana, and 40% dmg redu on 2min CD is enough for that

    And about self heals, my ele is currently on 373 Ilvl, and my healing surge is healing for around 40-50k, 3 good heals and I am at 100%. Maybe I am just a no name but healing from 0 to full in 3seconds seems to be rather strong.
    Last edited by HCLM; 2018-12-24 at 10:29 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    Also you are saying that Ele survi is bad
    Right off the bat, you haven't even read my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I don't think Ele defense is terrible, but you just basically list anything related to defense and think they'll add up to something good.
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    And about self heals, my ele is currently on 373 Ilvl, and my healing surge is healing for around 40-50k, 3 good heals and I am at 100%. Maybe I am just a no name but healing from 0 to full in 3seconds seems to be rather strong.
    No, you're just lying, ignoring that those are crits or that you have some kind buff that increases healing done / taken.



    That is how much Healing Surge heals on my 388 Ele, without Crit, it doesn't come near your described 40k-50k.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    A passive that is healing you for 30% of your hp every 40s, self heals, 2x 40% dmg red cds, one on 2min CD one on 5, 20% dmg reduction in wolf form + huge self heal with traits. Do you even play Ele? Ale survi is on pair with all other range casters now.

    Ele is currently THE fotm range dps with the best st and aoe dps.
    As Kralljin said, listing all those things doesn't suddenly make them strong. They're all average at best, and has anyone EVER had a good time sitting in Ghost Wolf for 4 seconds just for the DR? NG is a shittier unreliable cheat-death, self heals are a joke (lethal mechanics in raids usually happen while you're stuck in Ghost Wolf anyway), and Earth Ele's DR has so many situational restrictions that it's laughable. Elemental is sturdy-ish when you overgear content and your hp is higher, but how on earth can you think that ele's kit is comparable to other casters? What's REALLY crippling elemental anyway is the lack of movement.

    In a world where Shimmer/Blink, Tiger Dash/Wild Charge, Burning Rush/Demonic Circle, and Disengage/Aspect of the Cheetah exist, elemental is just useless. Only shadow is comparable to elemental, but shadow's sprint is 40 % and doesn't silence them - and their baseline DR is 75 % which is so much stronger for surviving lethal situations.

    I'm happy that elemental is doing well numbers wise in overgeared content, but the BfA incarnation of elemental is still absolute shit for any serious progress situation and will continue to be so until the spec gets some proper movement tools back.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    You don't need anything better than that. Please list one mechanic in BFA that you HAVE to use CD on it to do not die. I will help you, there is no such mechanic. Blizzard learned them lesson from Legion where people where getting one shotted by abilities that cannot be dodged.

    Also you are saying that Ele survi is bad. So why Ele becomes fotm in m+ where survive is MUCzh more important than during raid? In raid you don't need Def cds, only situation where you have to use them is:
    a) you are horrible and can't dodge mechanics
    b) u use then to help your healers save mana, and 40% dmg redu on 2min CD is enough for that

    And about self heals, my ele is currently on 373 Ilvl, and my healing surge is healing for around 40-50k, 3 good heals and I am at 100%. Maybe I am just a no name but healing from 0 to full in 3seconds seems to be rather strong.
    "In raid you don't need Def cds," this was the point when you lost pretty much all credibility. and most of what you listed is situational at best and players who are a bit more experienced in higher levels of raiding all have been saying that ele need survivability and you know mobility to actually be used in any of those cases

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihiel View Post
    All that matters for parsing during farm when you're allowed to stand still and ignore mechanics* - fixed that for you.

    Elemental might do dmg, but movement and survivability are still beyond awful and so elemental will continue to be a complete liability for mythic progress. It's a joke.
    Game is not, and should never be balanced around 20 man Mythic Progress,

    Every single fight this tier had a "best" class to bring.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Game is not, and should never be balanced around 20 man Mythic Progress,

    Every single fight this tier had a "best" class to bring.
    Weird that every single fight was Rogue, Warlock, and Warrior.

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