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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Straga21 View Post
    "In raid you don't need Def cds," this was the point when you lost pretty much all credibility. and most of what you listed is situational at best and players who are a bit more experienced in higher levels of raiding all have been saying that ele need survivability and you know mobility to actually be used in any of those cases
    I didn't say you don't need survi cds in raid I even listed when you need those. People on MMO champ have hard time reading posts. Ele sham has currently one of the best kits for surviving the raids. In Uldir there was a lot intermission phases where dmg did not matter but dmg migration does. Vectis, running to eggs on Fetid, orbs on Ghuun, crossing walls on mother, ghost wolf with trait for healing is amazing in these situations.

    Tell me where you needed CD more often than 2minutes in Uldir. You have to understand that spells like blinks, ice blocks are truly necessary for people who can't handle mechanics well and they have to use them to cheese bosses. How many times you see mates using Ice Block just to survive instead of using it for something useful? 90% time of the time or more. Mage ice block in Uldir was only necessary on Zul in this tier.

    To sum up, def cds are useful but they are not mandatory, and shouldn't be taken into account to measure if the class is viable for mythic or not.
    Last edited by HCLM; 2018-12-25 at 02:00 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Game is not, and should never be balanced around 20 man Mythic Progress,

    Every single fight this tier had a "best" class to bring.
    What else would you want to balance the game around?

    Raiding has always been the core of World of Warcraft, and since difficulties were introduced, the highest difficulty has been what arguably most of the community is striving for.

    In Uldir when most competent guilds were progressing mythic (that is, 2½ months ago) elemental as well as shadow were complete liabilities, they were underperforming and had no niche at all and no strengths worth mentioning. They were also the two ranged specs with the least movement options. Do you think their performance was a coincidence?

    Now, was there ever any fight in Uldir where elemental (or shadow) was the best spec to bring? No, there wasn't. Every single fight was a melee burst orgy sprinkled with affliction dots, and the occasional BM hunter spamming their space bars while doing their full dmg rotation. Elemental was missing (and still is) a useful niche role, as well as survivability and movement. If you've ever delved into current content on mythic difficulty you'd know this.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    Weird that every single fight was Rogue, Warlock, and Warrior.
    Monk or DK to tank, Monk or Priest to heal.

    Hell even Resto shaman to cheese Mother,

    Its not as bad as people on here make it out. Class equality is not how the world inside of Warcraft works, and it is not how the real world works. Stop being naive

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihiel View Post
    What else would you want to balance the game around?

    Raiding has always been the core of World of Warcraft, and since difficulties were introduced, the highest difficulty has been what arguably most of the community is striving for.

    In Uldir when most competent guilds were progressing mythic (that is, 2½ months ago) elemental as well as shadow were complete liabilities, they were underperforming and had no niche at all and no strengths worth mentioning. They were also the two ranged specs with the least movement options. Do you think their performance was a coincidence?

    Now, was there ever any fight in Uldir where elemental (or shadow) was the best spec to bring? No, there wasn't. Every single fight was a melee burst orgy sprinkled with affliction dots, and the occasional BM hunter spamming their space bars while doing their full dmg rotation. Elemental was missing (and still is) a useful niche role, as well as survivability and movement. If you've ever delved into current content on mythic difficulty you'd know this.


    They will NEVER and SHOULD NEVER balance around content that doesn't effect 90% of the player base.

    Understand if you will, Shaman and Priest had very powerful PVP choices as well.

    You want cutting edge, you have 1 of every class at the ready just like high end guild players do. Otherwise you stand in line with the rest of the community, when you understand, the power of having a FOTM class, you will understand far more then simply a video game

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Monk or DK to tank, Monk or Priest to heal.

    Hell even Resto shaman to cheese Mother,

    Its not as bad as people on here make it out. Class equality is not how the world inside of Warcraft works, and it is not how the real world works. Stop being naive

    - - - Updated - - -





    They will NEVER and SHOULD NEVER balance around content that doesn't effect 90% of the player base.

    Understand if you will, Shaman and Priest had very powerful PVP choices as well.

    You want cutting edge, you have 1 of every class at the ready just like high end guild players do. Otherwise you stand in line with the rest of the community, when you understand, the power of having a FOTM class, you will understand far more then simply a video game
    You don't need fotm class to get cutting edge. Just 2-3mandatory classes for cheesing boss and eveyrthing else can be anything, and the only requirement is feeling required amout dpa which is east to score with higher ilvl.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    You don't need fotm class to get cutting edge. Just 2-3mandatory classes for cheesing boss and eveyrthing else can be anything, and the only requirement is feeling required amout dpa which is east to score with higher ilvl.
    Glad we agree, have 1 of every class ready and you'll be good for cutting edge.

  6. #26
    Our pop #'s will remain as one of the lowest 3 classes in the game (fighting for bottom of the barrel with Monk s and Rogues). I run the Census+ mod on the 2 servers I play on each and every day (pruning accounts not seen in 30 days to help rule out alts/bank toons/flavor of the moments/ect) and we are consistently there. We feel better since 8.1, but are still a very off-setting spec to put it mildly.

  7. #27
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    They will NEVER and SHOULD NEVER balance around content that doesn't effect 90% of the player base.

    Understand if you will, Shaman and Priest had very powerful PVP choices as well.

    You want cutting edge, you have 1 of every class at the ready just like high end guild players do. Otherwise you stand in line with the rest of the community, when you understand, the power of having a FOTM class, you will understand far more then simply a video game
    So, balance around normal-heroic raids, mid-level m+, and 1400-1700 rating arena? Okay, Shamans still sucked, and the usual suspects still shone.

    Despite what people claim, relative class and spec performance matters at all level of play. Playing a strong class when you're not very good gives you better results than playing a weak one (especially if the strong class is simple to play, and in strong primarily because of high DPS), and (especially these days, with fast levelling) for many players takes less time and effort than learning to play better.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    So, balance around normal-heroic raids, mid-level m+, and 1400-1700 rating arena? Okay, Shamans still sucked, and the usual suspects still shone.

    Despite what people claim, relative class and spec performance matters at all level of play. Playing a strong class when you're not very good gives you better results than playing a weak one (especially if the strong class is simple to play, and in strong primarily because of high DPS), and (especially these days, with fast levelling) for many players takes less time and effort than learning to play better.

    Yes it should be. And elemental can now compete in all levels of Uldir. Resto could always compete but it took everyone else being better which is a problem with their Mastery

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Yes it should be. And elemental can now compete in all levels of Uldir. Resto could always compete but it took everyone else being better which is a problem with their Mastery
    Every spec has always been able to compete in heroic and normal, i still don't see proof of elemental competing on progress though, it's always just oh you could've brought another X instead with better ability to do mechanics, survive and dps.

    if you're here to argue elemental can do normal & heroic you're arguing against no-one because no-one is saying it can't, Linking 3:34 heroic kills when you're in full mythic ilvl gear is some of the weakest sauce i've seen.
    Fan reaction was muted, but fan's reactions at BlizzCon confirmed Diablo Immortal will be well received by players around the world.
    "Do you guys not have phones?"
    "You think you do, but you don't"

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    Every spec has always been able to compete in heroic and normal, i still don't see proof of elemental competing on progress though, it's always just oh you could've brought another X instead with better ability to do mechanics, survive and dps.

    if you're here to argue elemental can do normal & heroic you're arguing against no-one because no-one is saying it can't, Linking 3:34 heroic kills when you're in full mythic ilvl gear is some of the weakest sauce i've seen.

    Those logs are against other 90+ mythic raiders. Dont be quick to disregard actual evidence

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Those logs are against other 90+ mythic raiders. Dont be quick to disregard actual evidence
    so are you just completely new to the game?

    elemental doesn't struggle on farm when overgeared, then again who does? it struggles on progression on mythic where it can't face tank damage, and there's more mechanics, therefore more movement which cripples elemental.

    but no keep going on about heroic like anyone ever said a spec can't do heroic mode....
    Fan reaction was muted, but fan's reactions at BlizzCon confirmed Diablo Immortal will be well received by players around the world.
    "Do you guys not have phones?"
    "You think you do, but you don't"

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    so are you just completely new to the game?

    elemental doesn't struggle on farm when overgeared, then again who does? it struggles on progression on mythic where it can't face tank damage, and there's more mechanics, therefore more movement which cripples elemental.

    but no keep going on about heroic like anyone ever said a spec can't do heroic mode....
    And exactly when Ele did not struggle on farm? On Antorus Ele was 7th worst spec, NH 5th worst spec, ToV 3rd worst spec, EN 4th the worost spec on Farm. Your point is not valid for over 2 years now.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    And exactly when Ele did not struggle on farm? On Antorus Ele was 7th worst spec, NH 5th worst spec, ToV 3rd worst spec, EN 4th the worost spec on Farm. Your point is not valid for over 2 years now.
    Actually the same else Shaman I linked went from losing to winning against the same people on the same fights, he is 8/8 of and claims Ele is in a competitive but safe spot atm.

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