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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    Maybe this is a hot take, I don't know. Why don't we just approve the money for the wall? Look, every parent knows that when you argue with a toddler, you have to pick your battles. This battle is over less than 1% of the total projected budget. We all know, even if he gets budgeted the money for it, it will never break ground anyway. He's going to try to give the contract for building it to friends of his. That will get delayed. The Senate can hold up construction on any number of reasons for a while. And even if it gets built, it's not going to actually do anything and we'll get to watch him lie his way out of that.

    Maybe I'm crazy. At least that gets the government back working again. Toddlers can scream for a long time if they don't have a firm hand guiding them. And we know he doesn't.
    $5 Billion dollar pacifier every time Trump throws a temper tantrum? No thanks...

  2. #282
    Actual toddlers can’t bring the government to a screeching halt while they pitch their hissy fit. And while that money could go lots of places, you and I both know it won’t. It’s just going to slide into defense spending anyway. That’s the only face saving compromise for Republicans.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    Actual toddlers can’t bring the government to a screeching halt while they pitch their hissy fit.
    The past week and a half disproves this.

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  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    Maybe this is a hot take, I don't know. Why don't we just approve the money for the wall? Look, every parent knows that when you argue with a toddler, you have to pick your battles. This battle is over less than 1% of the total projected budget. We all know, even if he gets budgeted the money for it, it will never break ground anyway. He's going to try to give the contract for building it to friends of his. That will get delayed. The Senate can hold up construction on any number of reasons for a while. And even if it gets built, it's not going to actually do anything and we'll get to watch him lie his way out of that.

    Maybe I'm crazy. At least that gets the government back working again. Toddlers can scream for a long time if they don't have a firm hand guiding them. And we know he doesn't.
    Yes, you're crazy.

    This is a matter of principle - principles far more important than just keeping the government open. The wall is a monument to White Supremacy that does nothing to enhance our border security. It is a non-serious idea that Trump and other Republicans run on in order to raise funds from the hapless racists who support him.

    Furthermore people who take hostages don't get to dictate terms, lest they take more hostages. If Trump gets wall money here, he wins at the tactic and he'll keep coming back for more. If Republicans are seriously concerned about the 25% of government that is shut down, there is 6 indepedented spending bills they could vote on, and Trump could sign, as they (minus Trump) did in December, that would open up the rest of government except Homeland security. If they want a fight over the wall, then just fight it out in a series of Continuing Resolutions for homeland security.

    The thing is, they don't want the fight. And they don't want the wall. The problem is that Donald Trump cornered himself with a promise he couldn't keep (building a wall, mexico paying for it, etc), and he doesn't know what to do. Republicans want the issue to go away. And Democrats want to punish Trump. And they're going to do just that.

    Trump was severely wounded by his loss in the 2018 midterm election. His power has been significantly reduced and he looks like a loser. His behavior over the past 6 weeks, as he's tried to buttress his failing authority, has only served to reinforce that point. His Presidency is in decline, and everyone knows it.

    If Democrats beat Trump here, on the wall, at the start of their control of the House, Trump's power will be utterly broken, for good. It'll leave him exposed and vulnerable for what is to come this year, which includes impeachment.

    If he wins here, his chances of surviving this whole ordeal go way up. Not impossibly up. But up enough. In November Democrats beat him. Here, they have a chance to destroy him.


    So no. Trump will get nothing. He won't get one damn cent. This will end because Mitch McConnell will decide enough is enough, that Trump is bad for business, and strike a deal like every other time. And President Individual-1 will sign it while whining about it.

    But he'll be broken.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    Actual toddlers can’t bring the government to a screeching halt while they pitch their hissy fit. And while that money could go lots of places, you and I both know it won’t. It’s just going to slide into defense spending anyway. That’s the only face saving compromise for Republicans.
    That's not at all how this works.

    The Pentagon is open for business. 75% of government is. For the first time in a decade, Congress funded government via a series of individual bills for each department / topic, rather than doing a last minute Omnibus. That is why only 25% of government is shut down.

    Within these budgets, the money is itemized for specific things. The level of detail is remarkable if you look at it.

    So $5 billion for the wall would mean $5 billion for the wall, not defense. That's why $1.3 billion for non-Wall border security, the Democrats offer, isn't "good enough" for Trump to accept. Because it means $0 for the wall.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    Maybe this is a hot take, I don't know. Why don't we just approve the money for the wall? Look, every parent knows that when you argue with a toddler, you have to pick your battles. This battle is over less than 1% of the total projected budget. We all know, even if he gets budgeted the money for it, it will never break ground anyway. He's going to try to give the contract for building it to friends of his. That will get delayed. The Senate can hold up construction on any number of reasons for a while. And even if it gets built, it's not going to actually do anything and we'll get to watch him lie his way out of that.

    Maybe I'm crazy. At least that gets the government back working again. Toddlers can scream for a long time if they don't have a firm hand guiding them. And we know he doesn't.
    I used to have a toddler. We taught her that she can get things by asking nicely but not by tantrums. It's a long game, but it works if you are persistent and consistent. She also knows you can't always get what you want. (But if you try, sometimes you get what you need.)

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    Actual toddlers can’t bring the government to a screeching halt while they pitch their hissy fit. And while that money could go lots of places, you and I both know it won’t. It’s just going to slide into defense spending anyway. That’s the only face saving compromise for Republicans.
    Yeah, just pay for his tower in Moscow already. He will resign to oversee the project and the government can reopen. Everyone wins... /s
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  7. #287
    I think you guys are being rather optimistic about how this is going to go. And assuming he’s self aware enough to realize how much ground he’s lost.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    I think you guys are being rather optimistic about how this is going to go. And assuming he’s self aware enough to realize how much ground he’s lost.
    No. On the contrary, we're counting on him being entirely unaware and delusional and saying increasingly crazy things as he fails to recognize how broken his power is. It only serves to alienate him from the Senate.

    The answer will be 'no' from Democrats, period.. The shut down will end when McConnell decides enough is enough because he doesn't give a fig about the fucking wall. What he does care about is the hundreds of billions of dollars to all his Republican Senators and States that is on hold.

    He'll put a paper in front of Trump to sign, and Trump will bitch about it and that's it.

    Don't believe me? A senior Republican Senator just started to waffle.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...cbd_story.html


    Trump has no leverage left, and he's the only one who hasn't come to accept that.

  9. #289
    I'm wondering if the folks in this thread are still so confident the shutdown is ending very soon with no wall given the developments of the last few days.

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    I'm wondering if the folks in this thread are still so confident the shutdown is ending very soon with no wall given the developments of the last few days.
    It will last until the Republicans cave. There will be no wall funding. Separation of powers is very clearly defined in the Constitution, the President does not get to decide on the budget and it is frankly crazy that there are Republicans who want that to change.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    I'm wondering if the folks in this thread are still so confident the shutdown is ending very soon with no wall given the developments of the last few days.
    And most of us here are wondering when your self-absorbed ignorance in general will end.

    You think you have a magic bullet solution, and you somehow feel more validated the more people debunk your loony bin ideas instead. Like you know, the other thread literally only you and another nutter thought it was funny to claim moral superiority over an act of ignoring statistics.
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  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    It's Merry Fuckyoumas all around!

    House Republicans want 5 billion for this bullshit wall? They can pull it out of their own pockets.
    5 billion is nothing when we are in the hole 22 trillion.

  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    I'm wondering if the folks in this thread are still so confident the shutdown is ending very soon with no wall given the developments of the last few days.
    I don't think it'll go for 'Months, or even years' like Trump claims it will (him being a habitual liar aside), but I do think the Shutdown might end up lasting until the end of the month at this rate.

    Democrats refuse to move on this - because why would they? - and Trump's going to refuse to move on this because it's the last thing he has. Everything else he's tried to accomplish has been a garbage fire of failure to the point where even the things he should be getting bipartisan praise for are being flubbed so horribly, and the GOP might realize this as well and are trying to drag this out in hopes they can swing the messaging war back into their favor to turn it onto the Democrats.

    We've seen it with the 'Shumer Shutdown' malarkey that might've been more effective if Trump didn't decide to storm the stage and boldly proclaim: "IT WAS ME, AMERICA. IT WAS ME ALL ALONG!"

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    5 billion is nothing when we are in the hole 22 trillion.
    Another reason why you can take 5 billion out of your own pockets.

    Party of personal responsibility, please pay for your own things like responsible people do, thanks.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

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  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    Another reason why you can take 5 billion out of your own pockets.

    Party of personal responsibility, please pay for your own things like responsible people do, thanks.
    I thought the Democrats were all about handouts though?

  16. #296
    I am Murloc! Noxx79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    I thought the Democrats were all about handouts though?
    Nope, that’s both parties. The republicans want to give money to people who don’t need it though, while the democrats give money to the needy.

  17. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    I thought the Democrats were all about handouts though?
    Tired straw man aside; There's also the difference between $5B to a wall that may or may not even work and using those funds to aid in tangible issues like Infrastructure, Health Care and Poverty.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxx79 View Post
    Nope, that’s both parties. The republicans want to give money to people who don’t need it though, while the democrats give money to the needy.
    This made me laugh. Good one.

  19. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    Tired straw man aside; There's also the difference between $5B to a wall that may or may not even work and using those funds to aid in tangible issues like Infrastructure, Health Care and Poverty.
    Or even using it for actual border security. A drone with IR cameras, a handful of people and a helicopter can cover a large section of the border and doesn't cost five billion.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  20. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    This made me laugh. Good one.
    Yeah, the truth can be funny for a deluded fool.

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