A Perspective on the Current Loot System

[Nazrark]

Hello all, first of all this is a very anecdotal view on how things are perceived among my guild and our experiences with the new system.

Someone said very thoughtfully that there is a current divide in the player base. Those who are used to earning things through a week or weeks of work. But the knowledge that eventually you can earn it. The pay check method, if you put in the time you will get paid. The other is the current method of loot boxes. Each boss has a chance to give everyone something. But it may not be what the raid needs. The dropping of loot is very inconsistent, something we didn’t have much of an issue with having Master a Loot as an option, because we always knew that so many items would drop. Now in a group of 20. You can have anywhere from 2-6 items drop.

As of 8.1 they fixed the emissary rewards for gear. Now instead of saying you get an Azerite cache or 370 boots. You get a Loot Box with a 370 item in it. It may not be what you need. But it might upgrade an item. Something our guild was okay with because we knew up front what we were getting from a Loot Box.

One of the other sore spots among us was the randomness of Warforge and Titanforge. I suggested the idea of bringing back item upgrading and having 4 upgrade slots. Warforging providing 2/4 and Titanforging providing 4/4. I would also suggest bringing back the Valor system to pay for upgrading the gear. Sure it’s anothet currency to earn. But as a player base we seem to be okay with extra weekly tasks. Example; Mythic Plus and Azerite Power from Expeditions. Just add Valor as a reward from those and Emissary tasks. I would also suggest adding in a vendor for buying gear with Valor back. To satisfy those older players who were used to the Paycheck method. They can decide if it’s Bracers, Feet and a Ring this raid tier. It is something outside of running Raids and M+ to help with upgrading gear.

Mythic Plus as a gearing system is great because it’s guaranteed to drop gear usable by the group based on spec. And you know it’s two per chest.

The old system wasn’t perfect. It had a lot of great things in it that they’ve dumped by the wayside over the past couple of expansions. Perhaps it’s time to bring some of them back. I know it is the lack of transparency regarding the number of items that drop based on group size that irks our guild.

I would like to hear on other people’s thoughts on how to improve the current End Game Loot system.

[styil]

Titanforging needs to go.

[kamuimac]

you people are funny

wonder how many times you need to be told in Q&A that titanforging is working like intended :0

but sure make 1 more whining thread im sure it will work wonders

[Deleted]

Titanforging needs to go.

Why? Please stop with this randomness nonsense.

In the end you will have the same amound of titanforged gear like everyone else that does the same amound of content. I looked at my guild and the guild of a friend. In both guilds the players that do alot of mythic+ (200-300 in BfA) have 5-6ilvl more then the players that only do their weekly mythic+. When you look at the difference between players that do the same amound of content, it comes mainly from the class dependence on secondary stats.

Most players i know ingame that bitch about the randomness of titanforged are the players that only log in during raid night and the m+ they do after the raid. So if titanforge is a problem for you maybe you should slack less.

[Dilbon]

Current system is working fine. Item level difference between those who do harder content and those who do not is not very large (which is good) but those who do harder content get there faster and have better items (raid and m+ dungeon gear).

[styil]

Why? Please stop with this randomness nonsense.

No, Blizzard needs to stop with this randomness nonsense.

[nekobaka]

No, Blizzard needs to stop with this randomness nonsense.

To me it is how Blizzard has gutted aspects of the game to make titanforge a large aspect of the progression system. It's a shallow system that was supposed to be just a bonus "fun" thing here and there. I want gear to chase and use. Personally chasing the ilvl is just bland and boring. Games that have players grind pieces of gear for the nth time make the gear more interesting while WoW does the opposite.

[Prime92]

Titanforging needs to go.

Where's the upvote button?

[Deleted]

Casuals need LFR titanforging to feel relevant

[Steelcryo]

Oh look a thread about titanforging and warforging. Haven't seen one of these before...

Now to upset people and get called a casual:

I like titanforging and warforging.

[nlc]

Although i think personal loot this tier has been worse than master loot it's not been overly onerous. My guild for example adopted a policy where people can choose to trade or keep gear; if they chose to trade it it would go though loot council as normal. Most people are sensible and have been willing to give up minor upgrades if they are major upgrades for other members. Clearing the raid is the common goal after all. However I'm not sure how the new azerite system is going to play out. If people start withholding upgrades for azerite gear because they would rather destroy it for currency I think people are going to get quite acriomonious about gear overall and be less willing to trade. That is very bad guild cohesion. We'll have to see but I think raid azerite gear shouldn't give currency when destroyed instead raiders should get it directly from boss drops or as a bonus roll conoslation prize or something.

[Nazrark]

Oh look a thread about titanforging and warforging. Haven't seen one of these before...

Now to upset people and get called a casual:

I like titanforging and warforging.

I'm not saying I don't like it. I am just trying to find a way to improve upon the system to balance it a little. It's nice to see the item upgrade and see it's gone up 20 ilvls. At the same time it doesn't really feel earned. It feels like a lottery in that regard.

I would like it if Valor came back and served the purpose it did in previous expansions. I am trying to tie in our current Warforge and Titanforge into it to create that balance.

[Soon-TM]

Unfortunately, WF/TF and Loot Casino are here to stay. Maybe Ion thinks that such features make ppl play for longer, but it's been the exact opposite in my case

[Echocho]

Whenever you use the phrase "bring back" you can pretty much be sure that they're not going to do it. Blizzard refuse to use and seem to have a genuine distaste for any retired system from the past.

[Onikaroshi]

Whenever you use the phrase "bring back" you can pretty much be sure that they're not going to do it. Blizzard refuse to use and seem to have a genuine distaste for any retired system from the past.

They're "bringing back" artifact weapon trees, because the constant "gain a trait, lose a trait" of the current azerite system wasn't working.

[Ribesal]

Well, i don't think you can "improve" it, but also can't make it worse. Some like it how it is now, some massively hate it.

I personally hate it. First thing i would like to mention is the situation with weapons in uldir. Its quite obvious, that the items within the raid were created with the regular class distribution in mind. This results in having only one 2-hand agility weapon, but 5 different caster weapons + 4 offhands.
2-hand agility classes are not often seen in a group. Usually zero or only one. If you're the single person in the group, have fun getting the weapon. Assuming a 20% chance per boss to get an item and 4 items in the table the chance to get a weapon there is 5% per week. Which is similar to what most legondary weapons had in the past. Meanwhile the casters have more weapons to chose from and also more people in the group they could possibly trade with.
Now add warforging to that calculation ;D
For this reason most 2-hand weapons had strength and agility on them in WoD, why not now
And this going to continue in the new raid. two 2-hand weapons vs 5 caster + 4 offhands. Well, atleast a slight improvement.

To warforging itself.
What is the positive effect of this in the long run? Yeah, it's nice you had luck once to get a nice item, but you need luck again to get an upgrade in the future which wouldn't need much luck previously. not-titanforged drop has lost is value and a titanforged one is required to be usual upgrade compared to pre-legion. Nice...
This (and Artifact Power) results in every time spend on another character besides the main one to feel a bit wasted.

In the end you will have the same amound of titanforged gear like everyone else that does the same amound of content. I looked at my guild and the guild of a friend. In both guilds the players that do alot of mythic+ (200-300 in BfA) have 5-6ilvl more then the players that only do their weekly mythic+. When you look at the difference between players that do the same amound of content, it comes mainly from the class dependence on secondary stats.

But is it really neccessary to split the player base even further? If you wan't to play on some kind of level in the game you need to spend some similar time amount. With titanforging, etc. you would need to spend the same time doing similar stuff as everyone within your playerbase part group (i hope it's understandable what i mean with that) every week, otherwise you would fall behind. So within your part group the positive effects of it vanishes (as everyone has it and needs to have it [due to how the playerbase reacts, not to how the game mechanics define it]) and only the negative part remains (stress of "having" to do it everytime). The same counts for artifact/azerite power.

So, i would say go back to how the loot system was pre Legion and "improve" that, but don't change it so massively at once again...
Atleast throw away that massively stacked randomness in the current system as it achives nothing positive. Can something that is almost random be called a "System"...?

Also, everything added in Legion and BfA to increase the play time (warforging, AP, M+) actually achives the opposite for me (either directly or indirectly *cough* raider.io *cough*).

[Baroclinic]

Hello all, first of all this is a very anecdotal view on how things are perceived among my guild and our experiences with the new system.

Someone said very thoughtfully that there is a current divide in the player base. Those who are used to earning things through a week or weeks of work. But the knowledge that eventually you can earn it. The pay check method, if you put in the time you will get paid. The other is the current method of loot boxes. Each boss has a chance to give everyone something. But it may not be what the raid needs. The dropping of loot is very inconsistent, something we didn’t have much of an issue with having Master a Loot as an option, because we always knew that so many items would drop. Now in a group of 20. You can have anywhere from 2-6 items drop.

As of 8.1 they fixed the emissary rewards for gear. Now instead of saying you get an Azerite cache or 370 boots. You get a Loot Box with a 370 item in it. It may not be what you need. But it might upgrade an item. Something our guild was okay with because we knew up front what we were getting from a Loot Box.

One of the other sore spots among us was the randomness of Warforge and Titanforge. I suggested the idea of bringing back item upgrading and having 4 upgrade slots. Warforging providing 2/4 and Titanforging providing 4/4. I would also suggest bringing back the Valor system to pay for upgrading the gear. Sure it’s anothet currency to earn. But as a player base we seem to be okay with extra weekly tasks. Example; Mythic Plus and Azerite Power from Expeditions. Just add Valor as a reward from those and Emissary tasks. I would also suggest adding in a vendor for buying gear with Valor back. To satisfy those older players who were used to the Paycheck method. They can decide if it’s Bracers, Feet and a Ring this raid tier. It is something outside of running Raids and M+ to help with upgrading gear.

Mythic Plus as a gearing system is great because it’s guaranteed to drop gear usable by the group based on spec. And you know it’s two per chest.

The old system wasn’t perfect. It had a lot of great things in it that they’ve dumped by the wayside over the past couple of expansions. Perhaps it’s time to bring some of them back. I know it is the lack of transparency regarding the number of items that drop based on group size that irks our guild.

I would like to hear on other people’s thoughts on how to improve the current End Game Loot system.

I hate M+. It wouldn't be so bad, except it is one of the only two "pay and you will get rewarded" systems in place. Atleast I am guaranteed a piece of loot unlike if I spend 2-4X the work and effort in the latest raid. Heck, better loot usually unless you suffer through finding over 20 people to go mythic. In fact, I feel like raid has been slowly overshadowed because of it. I'm sorry, but the addition of random exploding volcanos, earthquakes, and extra trash with a timer doesn't make things any more fun.

Myself, I would for one, have those stupid coins give a 100% chance off raid boss. That would help kill making M+ a necessary evil for gearing for raids. And heck, I could go through the raid knowing I would atleast get 2 drop guaranteed. They might be the bracers of disappointment, but eventually I would get what I needed.

Second, let that stupid "dust" drop off raid bosses instead of grinding it out of random chance drops and daily quest rewards. Way to make yet another grind and push us to need to do that damn chest each week. They should have never made azurite armor sharable if they planned on this (eff, they shoulda never made azurite not out off M+ to begin with)

I like titanforge/warforge though. Who cares if its the lottery, getting a damn piece of loot is the lottery here unless its M+ or Conquest. Whose who cant handle it, give it to someone else or compact it. Quit whining. I'm more, hey, I don't have to upgrade this so soon now!!! If someone else gets a forge, well damn, that's saved time when downing a boss with them. Everyone wins generally, but people want to cry because someone gets "lucky".

I miss the old token currency systems like valor, but usually, most that stuff was crud by the time you could buy it.

[Deleted]

Also, everything added in Legion and BfA to increase the play time (warforging, AP, M+) actually achives the opposite for me (either directly or indirectly *cough* raider.io *cough*).

And for me it is the opposite. I want to log in and play my main character. I dont want to only log in on raid night and then ignore my main outside of it. This has ALWAYS been the biggest problem in WoW. Raiding was the only thing with value in PvE and everthing else was useless, as soon as you got raiding gear.

As for raider io score. Maybe stop playing with randoms all the time and find a guild. I dont care about my raider io score and it doesnt affect my game at all, because i play with my guild mates. I think alot of players that blames BfA for the bad time ingame is just playing with randoms all the time, because alot of players also bitch about raider io score and in this case i can understand that you guys dont have fun. Playing only with randoms is not fun.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

No, Blizzard needs to stop with this randomness nonsense.

Sadly never going to happen. But maybe one day you can buy something off the store that "increases the chance of titanforge" for 29.99 a month.