Page 12 of 24 FirstFirst ...
2
10
11
12
13
14
22
... LastLast
  1. #221
    The communication aspect is one of the more compelling pieces of Classic for me. Some of the best WoW friends I still have were made back when I was spamming /2 for DPS for my daily Heroic Mechanar. (It only took me 83 attempts to get the sword.)

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Spazlord View Post
    Communication is the result of necessity. When people discover that they can't pull a trash pack without CC, someone will CC something, or they will ask, or say something. There is still communication in BFA but it isn't required unless you're doing something hard, and most things aren't. So most people can get by without every saying a word and they play their game it's fine.

    I can't wait for everything to be a little harder.
    There wasn't that much CC back in the day and most CC actually pulled mobs, you can't just polymorph a mob, you have to coordinate with tank and other CC. So communication is pretty much required.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    People that min-max aren't casuals, they're used to putting effort into the game, Vanilla is especially rewarding to people that put a lot of time into it.
    To be honest, i'm beginning to believe your definition of "min maxers" is different.
    Maybe. To me a min maxer is someone who does everything to have the best possible result in terms of raiding/pvp and i put them in a separate category from people who love every aspect of the game. I'm expecting the first group to stick around much less than the second.

    It's just a different time. 10+ of information / experience / theorycrafting are going to affect the game. At the time there was sperimentation involved, people were discovering stuff. Now since blizz clearly stated the game will be the same, all this is absent and there is a clear path to get the most out of your char. Much much quicker to achieve.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Mauzi92 View Post
    I havent decided yet if i want to play classic or not. At one point i will probably start to levelup a character.
    The problem is, there are too many dick-ish players out there who developed a rather bad attitude over the years. A good amount of those players will start to play classic for different reasons. But they still got their attitude of bad behavior, quitting parties (or kicking other party members) for like no reason. That kind of stuff noone wants to see.

    In classic wow you got punished for bad behavior over time. People stopped playing with you.
    The big question is.. how many 'good' players have they made quit classic before the bad ones quit themself?
    You're at the internet bro, you're also alive. There's no such thing as a safe place because there's people with a bad attitude everywhere.

    You're telling us you won't be playing classic because there's "bad" people there? Wtf are you even saying.

  5. #225
    Players will have to become 'social' again, or they wont get very far in a Vanilla environment. its so insanely different than what the game is now. Its literally two different games which will require a completely different mindset if current players want to do vanilla.

    There is no LFG, LFD LFR or whatever they're calling it these days. No easy modes. No 'magic arrows' to point you to things. The mobs hit like trucks. Your character is very weak vs the environment compared to today with relatively very little health and damage dealing potential. No free meal tickets. No loot falling from the skies or given freely from vendors. Everything must be worked for and earned, both socially and game play skill wise. Be prepared to grind your asses off and learn your class, as well as play well with others.
    Last edited by Demithio; 2019-02-11 at 05:27 PM. Reason: typo

  6. #226
    thats not at all what i was saying but i get the confusion.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    This never happened to the extent you and people like you pretend it did. Stop the lies. If you were good enough you could be an asshole and still be in a guild. If you were good enough you could be an asshole and still get into almost any group.
    We had a Dwarf Priest with a gnome helmet staying on the bridge and flaming people all day, he got invited for every party and was in the top because he knew what he was doing. Not saying that we all should be a-holes, but people generally are only nice to get what they want in the end. There are some genuinely nice people though, but it's to a degree more rare than we like to admit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Airlick View Post
    It's not popular because the developers believe it's not what players want. And they believe what players want is instant gratification, preferably amplified by lootboxes. They may not be wrong for the majority of players, after all, that is what the market told them. Coincidentally, the same majority of players that do not enjoy grindy, hard games, don't play MMORPGs. This is why many MMORPGs are failing, anyway, they are trying to put mainstream practices into a genre that is very much NOT mainstream. This doesn't mean there isn't a significant number of players who are looking for exactly the type of gameplay that Vanilla provided - a hard, time-consuming and highly "craftable" gameplay. If this wasn't true, private servers wouldn't have dozens of thousands of players after all those years. Them being free is not an explanation, either - there's a lot of other F2P MMOs out there now, that are better than the highly limited WoW that the private servers provide.

    Like it or not, Vanilla will have some hundreds of thousands of players even after the initial bubble bursts. I personally doubt it will reach a million players even at launch, but an MMO, especially one that will pretty much be in maintenance state right after launch, doesn't need millions of subs. Vanilla will be fine with 100k players worldwide, and it WILL have at least as much.
    The only reason I personally like to play MMORPG's is because of the character building aspect, that includes getting through some tedious stuff to get to the good parts. Effort should equal reward and that is fine. I fully agree here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Airlick View Post
    But there will be no serious demands for new Vanilla content. Some people play Vanilla for years upon years on private servers, and they are not getting bored. PvP, for one, provides great replayability, and then the gearing process is much, much slower. Classes also play completely different. It's not retail, where if you've played one melee DPS spec, you've basically played them all.

    And then, if Blizzard sees a big turn-off of players from Vanilla after 2 years or so, releasing TBC servers is a safe call.
    I would love TBC but wouldn't mind Kara in Vanilla if they never release it either. I am still an advocate of the OSRS approach, but that might be too much to ask for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    So we're expecting them to continue this trend of re releasing expansions. Lol. Awful for the game.

    PVP was good in vanilla because of the game at the time - today it would be considered absurdly imbalanced. Vanilla servers are popular because they're FREE and have high turn over rates.
    I liked TBC PvP more, I would rate Wotlk and Vanilla around the same PvP wise. It isn't perfect but I prefer unique toolkits above everyone having the exact same toolkits and balance. Pokemon isn't balanced at all and is still extremely popular competitively. There is a degree of balance in imbalance if it's done somewhat right ;>
    Quote Originally Posted by Airlick View Post
    I'll take the "absurdly imbalanced" over "homogenized to the extent every arena/BG plays the same" every day. Vanilla PvP was rock/paper/scissors, and was made strictly with larger scale PvP in mind, where any imbalance is balanced by having 2 large teams covering their weaknesses and amplifying their strengths. Nowadays, it's like everyone is a rock, except one rock can heal other rocks, one throws pebbles at others, and the other charges around and bashes the other rocks in melee.

    Vanilla servers aren't popular because they are free. They are a limited version of the game, by no means a close recreation of what Vanilla used to be. There's dozens of free MMOs that are better than Vanilla private servers. People still play on them because they miss what Vanilla was.

    I don't see what's awful with releasing at least TBC servers after Classic.
    I love you
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Due Raid bosses only dropping a rather low amount of items, it takes a long time to get even close to decent gear.
    After all, lockout presenting a natural throttle on gear acqusition is how the game has worked for ages.

    Then there's also the fact that Blizzard staggers content.



    Those that like Vanilla perhaps?
    People that min-max aren't casuals, they're used to putting effort into the game, Vanilla is especially rewarding to people that put a lot of time into it.

    To be honest, i'm beginning to believe your definition of "min maxers" is different.
    If I play a lot, I want to be rewarded more than the ordinary Joe. If that ordinary Joe can catch up 2 weeks later with way less hours and effort spend, people that like to max everything out will start feeling demotivated. I wholeheartedly agree with this statement!
    Last edited by Shisui-kun; 2019-02-12 at 12:57 AM.

  8. #228
    To answer to topic: Hopefully! There is already a greate set of ppl playing on the private scene. If Blizzard convince that crowd, they will succeed.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    ^ this. Dosn't metter if
    but conditions only matters (even if community will remain "same", it's just their behavior will change ). Of course, this doesn't happen immediately, but people will adapt. It has always been and always will be: people (mechanisms' regulation rules) don't change, they always adapt or die

    ~ people won't change, but only be forced to adjust their behavior in order to be successful within established system (this, by the way, doesn't negate their ability to create groups with alternative survival philosophy, the only question is how long they'd can stabile survive)

    Naturally, hype around Classic and its “survival conditions” may help a little in favorable outcome, but everything will depend on how much devs succeed in authenticating experience = playing conditions. All conversations and work will be empty without them. Moreover, these aren't just loud words, because even such trifle as chat moderation rules can be important, since is main mechanism of communication = valid condition (illogical/cheat-able/brutal conditions leads to desire for attackers to take advantage of them, and for respectable people - to avoid of using).
    Well, it doesn't refute expressed views, rather complements them. I don't see much controversy, only that someone felt need (=demand) for communication (couldn't find it with decent eng subs, sorry) so it just has happened. Secondary cause isn't important here, conditions have contributed to this.

    Something like that... yeap.

    Also from here:
    Yes, people will adapt, but only because the worst players won't really stick around for long. Well, that's what i think anyway.

  10. #230
    Mechagnome Pakheth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    The cold hell known as Norway
    Posts
    597
    I believe you won't last long in Classic unless you do communicate, especially if you plan to do group related content. Even if you only do emotes you will have to do more communication than what most do on current expac servers today.

  11. #231
    Dreadlord Alkizon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Strasbourg
    Posts
    978

    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    Yes, people will adapt, but only because the worst players won't really stick around for long. Well, that's what i think anyway.
    I'd venture to explain that any viable finally formed system strives for self-support and -regulation and that is why it's important not to "mess up" with launch and organization of "exactly same" conditions - which will help formation of exactly same closed system of relationships and dependencies (this is, by the way, one of moments why I don't understand the reason behind devs which year continue to mock "organism”)... but only I'm tired of doing it again already. No one, apparently, take into account simple well-known truths. It remains to hope for the best and wait for what will happen next
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-05-27 at 11:28 AM.
    __---=== IMHO(+cg) and MORE |"links-inside" ===---__

    __---=== PM me WHERE if I'm unnecessarily "notifying" you ===---__

  12. #232
    Do Mythic+ if you want communication.
    Many groups wont go without discord.
    Mythic raiding, obviously its mandatory too.

    Talking in game is usually not a good thing.
    If you are typing, it means you aren't pressing skills, and it usually means you are either inexperienced and need guidance, or are arguing with some one else.

    I don't know what this mystique of "communication" has arisen from, but other than role players and noobs, people will still communicate the same way they do now, mostly outside of game in discord.
    Owner of ONEAzerothTV
    Tanking, Blood DK Mythic+ Pugging, Soloing and WoW Challenges alongside other discussions about all things in World of Warcraft
    ONEAzerothTV

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Hey There Guys its Metro View Post
    Do Mythic+ if you want communication.
    Many groups wont go without discord.
    Mythic raiding, obviously its mandatory too.

    Talking in game is usually not a good thing.
    If you are typing, it means you aren't pressing skills, and it usually means you are either inexperienced and need guidance, or are arguing with some one else.

    I don't know what this mystique of "communication" has arisen from, but other than role players and noobs, people will still communicate the same way they do now, mostly outside of game in discord.
    Do players have to do mythic+? No they can just join easy mods and finish game there. Nobady cares about artificial difficulty sliders for content what they have alredy done. There wont be any community if your game will have accessible content. Never. And yes even players whar do not want communicate should be forced becouse this is mmorpg and not some single player arpg.

  14. #234
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Nifelheim
    Posts
    2,017
    Communication is required for Classic, yes.
    If you're strictly a solo player that hates interacting with other humans, you are not going to have a good time. I'm also very confused as to why you'd try to play an MMORPG if the whole "MMO" thing isn't your deal.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Do players have to do mythic+? No they can just join easy mods and finish game there. Nobady cares about artificial difficulty sliders for content what they have alredy done. There wont be any community if your game will have accessible content. Never. And yes even players whar do not want communicate should be forced becouse this is mmorpg and not some single player arpg.
    If you do easy mode you have not finished the game, easy mode usually lack mechanics, you can't earn certain achivement/title/mounts

    That slippery slope of saying "Doing myth+ mythic raiding is not relevant" I really don't understand it.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Murthag View Post
    If you do easy mode you have not finished the game, easy mode usually lack mechanics, you can't earn certain achivement/title/mounts

    That slippery slope of saying "Doing myth+ mythic raiding is not relevant" I really don't understand it.
    Yes you did. Thats what players like you dont get. Majority of people consider it as finished game. Nobady cares about titles you can earn them next patch or expansio. Nobady cares about mounts you can earn them next patch, buy boost, or farm next expansion. Not mentioning most people have 300+ mounts anyway so another new mount no matter how good looking is really isnt that fun reward. Achievements again nobady cares about some filled bars what nobady can see without putting effort into inspecting someone. In classic you can actualy instanly tell what progression player done by just looking at their gear.

    New difficutly isnt new content it is same content but harder and iniciative to actualy do harder content isnt there at all. Classic is far more appealing and far more fun to participate in different types of content exactly for that fact there are no difficulty levels. It is far more fun complete Wailing Cavers than Wailing Caverns +1,+2,+3 etc...
    And i am not metioning how fragmented community is becouse of this.

    You can say how is moder game harder becouse of mythic +10 or mythic raiding. Fact that you have to use difficulty slider type of excuse to defend retail content only proves its in horrible state. No matter what you say. As long as moder wow will have easy mods it never will be harder than classic becouse game difficulty is determined by lowest possible difficutly.

    There is so many games what are pretty hard on hard difficulty yet only about 1 it is said all the time. Darks Souls. Even when some games can be harder on hardest difficulty level DS will be alwers mentioned as number 1, becouse it has no easy mod. You do 1 set difficulty or you wont finish game. And thats how it should be.
    Last edited by Elias01; 2019-05-25 at 10:42 PM.

  17. #237
    The Lightbringer SinR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    My Own Personal Hell
    Posts
    3,358
    Quote Originally Posted by kronides View Post
    The game will be an older version of the game, but the community will not be an older version of the community (the "better community" of vanilla is largely mythical, anyway). You'd better believe there will be lots of min-maxers who want to zerg through everything ASAP. And people WERE kicked from groups in vanilla for perceived incompetence, etc.

    Of course, not everybody will be like that. But everybody isn't like that now in BfA.
    and we have a winner.

    /Thread
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I had BfA Alpha. Then I had BfA Beta. Now I has BfA. Meh
    No Classic Beta. Even if I got it I probably wouldn't play.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Murthag View Post
    If you do easy mode you have not finished the game, easy mode usually lack mechanics, you can't earn certain achivement/title/mounts

    That slippery slope of saying "Doing myth+ mythic raiding is not relevant" I really don't understand it.
    I have question.. how it is relevant for average player? Where is the "fun"? It's really doing same thing for 5 more item levels really the soul of MMORPG games? Isn't that just bad ARPG or looter shooter?

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by ManiaCCC View Post
    It's really doing same thing for 5 more item levels really the soul of MMORPG games?
    Yes. That is quite literally exactly what MMORPGs are fundamentally based around. Doing the same thing you just did (picking up items, kill a thing using spells, clearing a dungeon, etc.) but with higher health/damage numbers, for gear with higher numbers on it. The difference between killing wolves in Northshire Abbey and killing wolves in eastern Elwynn, and killing wolves in Duskwood, and killing wolves in Felwood is largely just higher numbers and high numbered gear.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2019-05-25 at 10:50 PM.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Yes. That is quite literally exactly what MMORPGs are fundamentally based around. Doing the same thing you just did (picking up items, kill a thing using spells, clearing a dungeon, etc.) but with higher health/damage numbers, for gear with higher numbers on it.
    Damn, so I was playing wrong MMORPGs for years I guess.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •