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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    ofc -but you live in 2019 - are you honestly naive enough to belive that 99% of guilds wont run with loot councils because this is the only way they can exploit recruits to gear their buddies ?

    like come on get real.
    Are you honestly naive enough to believe that people won't just drop the guild when they see that all the loot is being handed out to the GM's friends?

    like come on get real.



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    they will try to start them for sure - but knowing how toxic people are those runs will be "lfm MC everything reserved"
    and you seriously believe people will join a pug when "everything" is reserved

    lol

    How much is Blizzard paying you to shitpost against classic? It's hilarious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    LFR saved raiding
    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    LFR is not really easy. I would say it's a lot harder thant Mythic Dungeons
    get_a_load_of_this_guy_cam.jpg

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by wegwacc View Post
    And as you might have noticed by now, if you were not blinded by the self-centered assumption that your opinion is the "right" one
    Never claimed it is the "right" one, i pointed out that your comparison is faulty.
    Lootsystems have advantages and disadvantages, that is quintessence of the very first paragraph that i replied to you, you just read "Loot council is the best system ever" for some reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by wegwacc View Post
    Where is your proof that lootcouncil guilds are stable?
    Pointless question because i never made that statement.
    You just assume it, when in fact i said that loot council is in prone to corruption, which in return however doesn't mean that it is bound to happen in every guild or every disbanding due to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    ofc -but you live in 2019 - are you honestly naive enough to belive that 99% of guilds wont run with loot councils because this is the only way they can exploit recruits to gear their buddies ?

    like come on get real.
    I'm really in the mood to discuss this further but whatever.

    No, not every guild runs loot council to exploit others.

    Some Guilds use because they don't want to manage a DKP System, as it one big hassle to manage for both members and leaders.
    Some Guilds want to hand their loot in a intelligent manner, to avoid that extremely valueable items go to people that don't really need, if you give TF to a Rogue, despite your MT not having it solely due to DKP, then this lootsystem effectively gimped your raid.

    Can people exploit it? Of course they can. Will some people exploit? Of Course.
    Will 99% of all guilds that use Loot council abuse it? That's something i would love to see proven, similiar if you start to claim it's some kind of "majority".

    I'm not up for a moral debate regarding the evil selfish nature of man and naivety, the truth of the matter is simply that shades of grey exist, whether you like or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    they will try to start them for sure - but knowing how toxic people are those runs will be "lfm MC everything reserved"
    Supply and demand in some sense also applies here.

    People reserve things because it works, people join those groups because they are too lazy to form a group themselves.

    Making your own group remains the best solution to fight any of the "need Achievement / Ilvl X / R.IO score Y", but as those groups at least have some modicum success in forming a full group and completing their goal, those groups will form again under similiar rules.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2019-01-05 at 06:08 PM.

  3. #103
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Pointless question because i never made that statement.
    .
    Yes, you did.
    You brought up your own guild as an example.
    And now, that this nonsense has been thoroughly debunked as nothing but anecdotal sillyness, you try to backpaddle from it.

    As I said, this discussion does not have a fruitful future, but if you intend to continue it, just so you can put on a sad display of backpaddling and making weak excuses, I wont stop you.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Savagedragn View Post
    I joined a group as healer last night. Got bumped off a ledge and accidentally made a few extra pulls, but healed through it and we survived. Quipped a few jokes, apologized, literally nothing from the other four players.

    After a couple bosses I pulled some extra packs while we were clearing. Nobodies health was dropping, we were aoe dpsing anyway, and we were all sub 120. Still no issues clearing, but tank starts complaining and other dps start yelling at me and talking about how stupid I am, special needs, etc etc. Then I’m like “this is the first time you guys say anything and it’s this?” Some complaints about state of the game, and they kick me.

    We were almost at the last boss at this point. The group knows they can easily pick up another healer from LFD. They don’t give two shits about my time lost missing out on the final bonus exp and it doesn’t hurt them at all.

    Will we ACTUALLY get back to people communicating with each other in Classic?

    Groups will be harder to form and replacements will take travel time not to mention just finding someone. These same people would probably have preferred to work it out with me instead of kicking. Hell, I didn’t pull anymore after they said stop. I was just discussing why I thought the extra pulls made sense and they kicked me...

    You could argue that these people would never have grouped with me in the first place but forget that argument. Suppose they DID group with me and same scenario came up.

    I think either Classic DOES bring back tighter community that’s more willing to engage meaningfully with each other or it ends up falling flat and becoming just another desolate playground for those happy to piddle around with original wow either solo or with a tight group of friends.

    Yes, in Classic they would have not dared to kick you out, the hassle of teleporting back or abandoning the dungeon altogether would have protected you. Humans do NOT behave if they are not forced to. That's why everything needs to be regulated and watched with laws and rules. The majority of humanity would go rampart the second there are no repercussions to their cruel actions and words.

    If you build an environment such as LFD where you can randomly kick someone for no reason and get a replacement instantly abuse will happen plenty of times. The numbers of unjustified kicks must be insane, most don't bother complaining about it.

  5. #105
    The loot council discussion is going a bit off topic. Maybe you guys should make a new thread related to how loot will be handled in Classic =)

  6. #106
    It should... LFD/R doesn't exist in Classic - as far as I know - and that's one of the reasons it disappeared. I think cross-realm also added to this, but at that time, communities were still a thing, and it emboldened server pride for a brief time.

  7. #107
    I doubt it. Look at how things are IRL. Nobody talks to anyone anymore. People go out, get on their phone and never talk to anyone around them. The other day I was waiting in line at Chipotle, it was maybe 20 or so people all of them looking at their phones. Never looked at anyone or talked to anyone else. Classic isnt going to fix that. Even with retail, a lot of the problem is also with the community. It may just be that MMOs cant work because society is no longer interactive with each other.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucks01 View Post


    Look at all that talking!
    Exactly this.

    I do believe it’s a common misconception that cell phones have suddenly made people stop talking to each other.

  9. #109
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Xirrohon View Post
    I doubt it. Look at how things are IRL. Nobody talks to anyone anymore. People go out, get on their phone and never talk to anyone around them. The other day I was waiting in line at Chipotle, it was maybe 20 or so people all of them looking at their phones. Never looked at anyone or talked to anyone else. Classic isnt going to fix that. Even with retail, a lot of the problem is also with the community. It may just be that MMOs cant work because society is no longer interactive with each other.

    "Hello Miss, I see you're waiting here in line with me. Wanna talk about your kids or something?"

    Yeah, I wonder how that conversation would go.
    Likely, it'll involve a can of pepperspray and a restraining order at some point.
    Last edited by mmoc76fffd2ed2; 2019-01-06 at 08:58 AM.

  10. #110
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    A lot of the way early WoW was constructed was that it forced you into that communication state. If that will translate over to us now who knows, maybe some of it will, I don't expect it to be as exactly as communicative as it was.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    they will try to start them for sure - but knowing how toxic people are those runs will be "lfm MC everything reserved"

    gl pugging in classic this will end well for sure.
    My server had weekly MC Friday pug for alts back in Vanilla. Shit was faster than my guild MC clear because people were actually there to clear the instance and not be AFK auto attacking shit head hunters.

    I really wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing for BWL and other instances.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Savagedragn View Post
    I joined a group as healer last night. Got bumped off a ledge and accidentally made a few extra pulls, but healed through it and we survived. Quipped a few jokes, apologized, literally nothing from the other four players.

    After a couple bosses I pulled some extra packs while we were clearing. Nobodies health was dropping, we were aoe dpsing anyway, and we were all sub 120. Still no issues clearing, but tank starts complaining and other dps start yelling at me and talking about how stupid I am, special needs, etc etc. Then I’m like “this is the first time you guys say anything and it’s this?” Some complaints about state of the game, and they kick me.

    We were almost at the last boss at this point. The group knows they can easily pick up another healer from LFD. They don’t give two shits about my time lost missing out on the final bonus exp and it doesn’t hurt them at all.

    Will we ACTUALLY get back to people communicating with each other in Classic?

    Groups will be harder to form and replacements will take travel time not to mention just finding someone. These same people would probably have preferred to work it out with me instead of kicking. Hell, I didn’t pull anymore after they said stop. I was just discussing why I thought the extra pulls made sense and they kicked me...

    You could argue that these people would never have grouped with me in the first place but forget that argument. Suppose they DID group with me and same scenario came up.

    I think either Classic DOES bring back tighter community that’s more willing to engage meaningfully with each other or it ends up falling flat and becoming just another desolate playground for those happy to piddle around with original wow either solo or with a tight group of friends.

    I hear you. Early December I went back to EverQuest (Agnarr) and what can I say - no regrets! That game is not for everyone but I am having a blast!
    The point is, there is communication all the time in every group you are in. The game is just designed that way. And that is what keeps me in. Also character development takes time. Making friends is easy and rewarding. There are risks you either take or not. It's not as harsh as it used to be but as mentioned I am still having a blast.

    WoW has kind of gone the other direction -- became a solo RPG (without any RP at all actually) in an MMO dress -- and that might be cool for the most people playing it. But it's no longer cool for myself and apparently not for you also. I was looking forward to play classic. But as others in this thread have mentioned, the community will still be the same (mostly) so I now refrain from playing classic at all because -- and that is the answer to your question -- we will not get back to people communicating with each other in Classic (imho) which is a huge deal for me personally. I actually like the multiplayer part in an MMORPG -- not just inside a guild.

    Good luck to ya, mate!

  13. #113
    Probably, people will still be bags of dicks though, they were dicks back then and they will be dicks now.

    I honestly have more negative memories of pugging in Vanilla than I do positive, whether thats because we as humans tend to remember negative experiences better than positive I don't know, but I do know that I had plenty of negative experiences with people in Vanilla.
    People like to say that such people will be blacklisted and never be invited into groups but thats bullshit.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Communication will come back as we'll have downtime on flightpaths, mana breaks, corpse runs etc.
    To be honest, I think that's alt+tab time.
    Mother pus bucket!

  15. #115
    No, because most of the people who played back then, are gone, and are not coming back.

  16. #116
    The answer is NO.
    The only thing you need to get this back is a Dolorean that can go 88mph

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tankbug View Post
    To be honest, I think that's alt+tab time.
    or alt f4 actually

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elidan456 View Post
    My server had weekly MC Friday pug for alts back in Vanilla. Shit was faster than my guild MC clear because people were actually there to clear the instance and not be AFK auto attacking shit head hunters.

    I really wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing for BWL and other instances.
    At the end of vanilla, I cleaned BWL (or almost) in a pug group with my alt (soon to be main in BC) hunter
    I remember having some retards on my guild, or people without TS (girls...) ect. We still cleared everything until emperor (then I switched guild)

    Please tell me what is hard about bwl/mc :/ Vael is harder because you need some stuff (and tries are limited, if I remember right) but thats all

  17. #117
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Savagedragn View Post
    I joined a group as healer last night. Got bumped off a ledge and accidentally made a few extra pulls, but healed through it and we survived. Quipped a few jokes, apologized, literally nothing from the other four players.

    After a couple bosses I pulled some extra packs while we were clearing. Nobodies health was dropping, we were aoe dpsing anyway, and we were all sub 120. Still no issues clearing, but tank starts complaining and other dps start yelling at me and talking about how stupid I am, special needs, etc etc. Then I’m like “this is the first time you guys say anything and it’s this?” Some complaints about state of the game, and they kick me.

    We were almost at the last boss at this point. The group knows they can easily pick up another healer from LFD. They don’t give two shits about my time lost missing out on the final bonus exp and it doesn’t hurt them at all.

    Will we ACTUALLY get back to people communicating with each other in Classic?

    Groups will be harder to form and replacements will take travel time not to mention just finding someone. These same people would probably have preferred to work it out with me instead of kicking. Hell, I didn’t pull anymore after they said stop. I was just discussing why I thought the extra pulls made sense and they kicked me...

    You could argue that these people would never have grouped with me in the first place but forget that argument. Suppose they DID group with me and same scenario came up.

    I think either Classic DOES bring back tighter community that’s more willing to engage meaningfully with each other or it ends up falling flat and becoming just another desolate playground for those happy to piddle around with original wow either solo or with a tight group of friends.
    The games always been toxic. Been kicked and I've kicked people from groups for petty reasons since 2006. It was a simple process of boot the scrub hearth to the main city and spam trade for a new what ever whilst every one else in the group takes a smoke break.

    It was common to see LF1M [insert role] [insert instance] 1/5 or what ever they were up to when they booted some one.

    People forget wows toxicity began at the end of vanilla as sson as we had ways to gauge if some one was good or not.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Interesting question. I suspect not. There's a theory that software drives behavior which implies that personal responsibility has little to do with it. I think that's completely wrong.

    Social gaming at this scale was a relatively new thing in 2005. Everyone was essentially terrible at the game and finding their way. So many reached out. Today, social gaming is a swamp of hostility, trolling and bad behavior unless it's very firmly controlled (which it will not be if Blizzard's history means anything). Classic will have today's "Grow a thicker skin, it's the Internet" audience, not the audience of 2005.

    Good community will still mean guilds or friends. You'll need one or both if you want to avoid the swamp.
    I agree 100% with you.
    Players back in the day had to be social because we were lost, we knew almost nothing from the game and such.
    The new classic will be full of the new players trying to be good at "vanilla".

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Thats because pservers only have a tiny fraction of players compared to real one, ofc you know half the servers when theres only like 50 people active.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    50 people active.
    Most recent vanilla server gets up to 10k online every single day.

    But go on, keep preaching about how private servers are "only 50 people"
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    LFR saved raiding
    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    LFR is not really easy. I would say it's a lot harder thant Mythic Dungeons
    get_a_load_of_this_guy_cam.jpg

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Corydon View Post
    I hear you. Early December I went back to EverQuest (Agnarr) and what can I say - no regrets! That game is not for everyone but I am having a blast!
    The point is, there is communication all the time in every group you are in. The game is just designed that way. And that is what keeps me in. Also character development takes time. Making friends is easy and rewarding. There are risks you either take or not. It's not as harsh as it used to be but as mentioned I am still having a blast.

    WoW has kind of gone the other direction -- became a solo RPG (without any RP at all actually) in an MMO dress -- and that might be cool for the most people playing it. But it's no longer cool for myself and apparently not for you also. I was looking forward to play classic. But as others in this thread have mentioned, the community will still be the same (mostly) so I now refrain from playing classic at all because -- and that is the answer to your question -- we will not get back to people communicating with each other in Classic (imho) which is a huge deal for me personally. I actually like the multiplayer part in an MMORPG -- not just inside a guild.

    Good luck to ya, mate!
    Love that you’ve found a new home!

    I think you contradict yourself in your statement. The people playing Everquest and the people playing wow come from the same societal pool. If Everquest folks can get back to good communication between players then so can WoW folks. There is no magical barrier separating these groups of people.

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