Will Classic bring back player communication?

[Stormwolf64]

So you’re drunk right now?

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Uh huh. Interesting point. And how will the game being different impact the way the community engages with each other?

Sounds like you're saying the same as me.

[Drusin]

So you’re drunk right now?

In game. /10budligh--Imeanchars

[Savagedragn]

Sounds like you're saying the same as me.

Actually I’m asking you a legit question. Is your point that the game is not different? That the differences in the game will not cause the community of people playing the game to behave any diffeeently than they do in retail? I’m asking if you could expand on whatever point you have to make instead of just a statement =)

[Big Thanks]

People will communicate in Classic because they have to.
They have to if they want to do certain quests with elite mobs etc

Some buildings full of mobs are also easier with a group.

In terms of dungeons i THINK people will be more tolerable because no one wants to wait extra 30min to find a new guy for the group.

[JRZoid]

Well see there was a time like when it WAS HARD. and it took HOURS and the casual nooblets just ruined it stuff...DS really through it in even more with raidfinder...you have someone that will just que and not know jack about the fight and just try to do it and get carried through it.

The casuals killed the game man I swear to god lol...not how it works you don't get gear for 0 effort lol

[chooi]

Necessarily as Vanilla/TBC demanded player communication and socialization by game design and players that don't want this won't play Classic or not for long because you will quickly run out of solo content and hit a wall. Just have a look at private server communities that are usually very lively and doing well, at least from my experience.


(This is assuming they won't do any drastic changes for Classic.)

[anon5123]

Community will stay the same

You're either blind or ignorant or both if you think the communities will be the same.

In retail, you can be a complete jackass with no recourse because you're playing with random people from other servers that you will never see ever again after the run ends. You can be a horrible player and suffer 0 consequences beyond being removed from the group...in which you can just hop right back in the queue / group finder and join another random group.

In vanilla, if you're an asshole, or really bad at the game, you WILL become infamous on your server and people WILL refuse to invite you because they heard from others how much of a douchefuck / awful player you are. Server reputation is a thing, even on large private servers with tens of thousands of active players.

There's also the loot-whoring mentality retail has fostered by showering players with epics at every turn...yeah, in vanilla, if you expect to gear up quickly, you're in for a horribly rude awakening. Since vanilla is such a large time investment, lots of guilds use loot council systems to spread gear out to who needs it the most, and who will use it best to benefit the raid as a whole, with really the only exception being the main tank (usually the guild master or high ranking officer) getting the best tank loot first, since gearing up your MT is incredibly important.

As someone who played retail and private servers, I can tell you their communities are night and day.

[Zaqwert]

People will communicate in Classic because they have to.

This is what many people are seemingly missing.

Most Human beings by their very nature tend to only do what's required of them and nothing more. Old school vanilla wow required communication and community, they were mandatory for playing the game properly, so people did them.

Modern retail WoW makes communication and community optional, and most people choose not to participate.

Anyone who goes into Vanilla and tries to just do their own thing without talking to anyone or forming any bonds will be able to accomplish nothing and will either quit or adjust.

[Kralljin]

Anyone who goes into Vanilla and tries to just do their own thing without talking to anyone or forming any bonds will be able to accomplish nothing and will either quit or adjust.

Oh please, this is just one of those massive exaggerations going rampant in this thread.

You don't need communicate to move forward, you could level from 1 to 60 without talking to someone besides "inv" or "+ / -" as a sign of (dis)agreement (which i think hardly qualifies as communication in my book), even those are entirely optional if you want to pass up on Instances / Elite quests (which you can if you don't mind grinding or taking extra routes).

Take your 40man raid, unless you're one of the officers / leaders, you don't have to talk, it would be stupid anyway with if like a two digit number of people start talking.
Most people log on, get invited, do their Hps / Dps, log off, depending on the loot system the communication generally also goes towards the bare minimum unless it is "who can whine the loudest about not getting any loot".
Rule of thumb, if you are doing your job, no one will bother you.

Even if you want to argue that getting into a guild requires communication, which is true, that also can be seriously reduced, stand in Org / IF with good crafted gear on a decent class / spec (not some dps hybrid stuff) you'll get whispers from people naturally, because they'll be looking for people to improve their roster.

Once you're in, as elaborated above, actual communication is not that mandatory anymore.

If you want to pass up on raiding entirely because you want to avoid other people communicating with eachother, you can still look towards profession, farm yourself stuff, craft some shit, sell it, just make gold in general.
You could buy tons of solid BoE / craftable stuff off the auction house.

The only thing that seriously relies on communication and grouping up with other people: PvP.
That is probably still true to this day (albeit less), connections rule the PvP world, without connection to solid players, your chances to climbing rating are rather slim.
You need that one guy that brings you in to meet other good pvp'ers which in turn might recognize you down the line.

Unless you have something really to show for, you're not getting into decent PvP groups on your own.


The MMO fanbase is at this simply rather contradictory, on the one side people play an MMO to group up with other people, on the other hand some people try to avoid contact with other people unless neccessary.

Communication sometimes just happened because you sometimes spent less time playing the game and wait for shit, if you took a flight from Org to Silithus, you might as well chat with your guild (because it took like 10-15minutes), now you take a Portal and do that what you actually wanted to do.
Same story with meeting people at the boat / Zepelin, you might start chatting simply because you "happen to meet" (It's not like you have anything better to do while waiting for the Zepelin / Boat and trying to fake AFK seems also stupid), whereas now, Portals, Portals, Portals!

[Alkizon]

Togabito
People will communicate in Classic because they have to.
They have to if they want to do certain quests with elite mobs etc

Some buildings full of mobs are also easier with a group.

In terms of dungeons i THINK people will be more tolerable because no one wants to wait extra 30min to find a new guy for the group.

^ this. Dosn't metter if

Stormwolf64
Community will stay the same

but conditions only matters (even if community will remain "same", it's just their behavior will change ). Of course, this doesn't happen immediately, but people will adapt. It has always been and always will be: people (mechanisms' regulation rules) don't change, they always adapt or die

~ people won't change, but only be forced to adjust their behavior in order to be successful within established system (this, by the way, doesn't negate their ability to create groups with alternative survival philosophy, the only question is how long they'd can stable survive)

Naturally, hype around Classic and its “survival conditions” may help a little in favorable outcome, but everything will depend on how much devs succeed in authenticating experience = playing conditions. All conversations and work will be empty without them. Moreover, these aren't just loud words, because even such trifle as chat moderation rules

Sluvs
To the best of my knowledge there is literally no game that has an AI that can identify if somethign is offensive or not.

And it's for this reason, that I insist on using not automat system (it's not AI, not even close), but a full-fledged filtering system and chat settings, this is why I insist on using "individual/personal" (= reasonable and moderated) protection, rather than giving everyone right to active and potentially dangerous "actions" , that is why I insist on return of status quo of full-fledged "internal" social regulation, rather than selfish individualization cultivated by "automatic-feeder" (even if only simply because it's deprivation of full will, and hence awareness and responsibility), game's internal problems can and should be solved without going beyond its world.

"Automat" isn't good in itself, it's good only for and in those hands that are engaged in setting up and managing it, and only personally for them, which means that all that "public machine" have right to do is reading and applying individual settings of users to their "personal" locale and collecting statistics and evidence in case of need for a full-fledged "public" moderation of conflict. Under no circumstances should it make any decisions or allow players to directly abuse system, with good or bad intentions, it doesn't matter.

In this particular case, social contract itself doesn't (shouldn't) have full-fledged legitimate force (there is no true, complete and recognized by majority definition/meaning of "good" and "bad"), only carry wish/warning to maintain level of morality and self-awareness, since non-compliance with it can ultimately lead to response actions by both players (if we return to the old social regulation) and devs (if you carelessly go beyond allowed rules when cheating and abuse the system), that's all.

ps. Automatic system has been and will continue to be good only in those places where you need to make "accurate" decisions, but not in those where you need to make "right" ones.

(you can decide only for yourself and shouldn't for others) can be important, since is main mechanism of communication = valid condition (illogical/cheat-able/brutal conditions leads to desire for attackers to take advantage of them, and - to avoid of using for respectable people).

Kralljin
Communication sometimes just happened

Well, it doesn't refute expressed views, rather complements them. I don't see much controversy, only that someone felt need (=demand) for communication so it just has happened. Secondary cause isn't important here, conditions have contributed to this.

In other words, controlled interactive individual self moderation by "mature" player is worse solution than ban emotes and put stupid automatic counter on reports with distribution of auto-mute... oh, yes! You're moving in a very "right" direction

This isn't even sarcasm already, but rather ordinary laugh of person tired of being surprised. I hasten to upset you, but toxicity of your audience is not so much in words as in behavior, and ability to "correct" it is often prohibited by your "newfangled innovations". Your design is hindrance to that, and your feigned "decency" is its inspiration. Good luck, of course, but I'm afraid, that you have no idea how wrong you are in choosing of impact's direction

ps. However, they may not consider their audience "mature", adequate and capable of making independent decisions.

Something like that... yeap. Kind of continuation Here.


Also from here:

There shouldn't be any world layers associated with individual character progress, server is united and only measure of progress... just NONE. Therefore, "phased" parts basis world organization (and here I'm talking not about it only, but about all similar mechanics) is unacceptable, it doesn’t matter if it’s “bronze dragons time travel help” or some other nonsense, people are obliged to see each other being within same territory except for intervenes directly by lore's supported mechanics (abilities/magic/other dimensions), or it had to be instances' content - scenarios. It was in this way how competitive spirit "between servers" (it's hard for guilds, of course, since beta testing advantage, but it possible for open world progression - where each participant contribution is important) was achieved, and it makes no sense to pay attention to "defectors" if process of "run-away" itself is as difficult as possible (almost impossible, very expensive, has certain substantial penalties in terms of time and amount of allowed taken junk)... but now they have CRZ, micro-transactions with tokens, phasing, shards and other rubbish, with which they help themselves to close their eyes to all real problems associated with current "accounts" activity.

There should be no possibility to exit, otherwise whole essence of community is lost (this isn't session bull$hit, we're talking about long-term cohabitation) - need for mutual constantly adaptation (individual or collective, but adaptation). Possibility of easy (CRZ&Co stuff) or uncontrolled (automatic) runaway/escape devalues ​​decision made ⇒ choice ⇒ serious attitude to it ⇒ need to make such choice and to at least somehow associate yourself with concept of social adaptation in closed group, and it means that you don't get formation of similar experience, skills, learning ⇒ changes all your subsequent behavior as part of a team (same stuff true for wPvP events)... etc. So, same fundamental mistake turns WM (same as CR-LFR(G)-alike stuff), into absolutely useless piece of $hit in social sense.
(this, however, doesn't negate their additional silly consequences for game design as a whole, but complements them very much).

They didn't listen us, so - consequences.

Some words about patch-balance mechanics here and about automation here.

[Leodric]

I think it will change compared to retail. Playing on certain servers in 2017 it was lot's of communication beginning from the dead mine instance already until raiding. I loved it and can only imagine the game being better with a tighter community and all people able to speak the same language.

[czarek]

Yes im sure but im not sure the good behavior will back. Community is pretty toxic now. If you join party from random dungeon no one speak on chat until you or someone made mistake. Not always but mostly. People want to blame against others than just talk to each other say "Hi" or smth. In vanilla it was standard to talk in a party. Talk about tactic, cc items, bosses, loot or whatever about football :P The LFD/LFR tool isnt that big problem about communication. Its more about dungeons in it self. You just dont have to talk to each other to finish it. Now you enter duneon and zerg it quick without any special tactic or CC. Who use CC in dungeons this days? Try to finish BRD without communication and CC in vanilla or LBRS.

[vsb]

In vanilla, if you're an asshole, or really bad at the game, you WILL become infamous on your server and people WILL refuse to invite you because they heard from others how much of a douchefuck / awful player you are. Server reputation is a thing, even on large private servers with tens of thousands of active players.

I doubt it. Public shaming is prohibited and those who would try to publicly shaming other players on official forums or in-game public chats, will be banned. You could use discord, but very few players would use it. I played since TBC and have no idea what are you talking about, I never ignored anyone because someone wrote something. I played on private server and did not see anything about it. Huge server is like retail, there are hundreds players around you and you won't remember anyone. Classic is likely to launch huge servers with sharding and dynamic spawns, you won't get your beloved server community consisting of 3 guilds.

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Who use CC in dungeons this days?

Like, everyone? Did you even try to finish a single +10? Ghuun affix is pretty much requires CC.

[czarek]

Like, everyone? Did you even try to finish a single +10? Ghuun affix is pretty much requires CC.

On mythic+ ye but i mean NORMAL. In vanilla you cant even finish lvling dungeons without CC. In TBC also.

[evogsr]

I doubt it. Public shaming is prohibited and those who would try to publicly shaming other players on official forums or in-game public chats, will be banned. You could use discord, but very few players would use it. I played since TBC and have no idea what are you talking about, I never ignored anyone because someone wrote something. I played on private server and did not see anything about it. Huge server is like retail, there are hundreds players around you and you won't remember anyone. Classic is likely to launch huge servers with sharding and dynamic spawns, you won't get your beloved server community consisting of 3 guilds.

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Anon is right. Players were routinely ostracized publicly in-game or official forums from their server if they garnered a poor reputation from their actions; ninja looting, unreliable at group/guild commitments, same faction griefing, and other repeated/unredeemed behavior, and even sometimes the inability to not consistently be the weakest link. Absolutely zero of that was against the rules, and absolutely no one was ever banned from creating advertisements letting other players know about these individuals - that it was in everyones best interest to be wary of them. To a lessened effect and much limited scope (communities more or less gone), this method of giving other players awareness of poor behavior/whatever through the official channels still exists today, with no penalty to those spreading the awareness.

You couldn't be any more wrong about this. At best, there may have been times where Blizzard may have closed a thread that went from awareness to harassment, but no one has ever been banned for tipping off their server community.

[bloodykiller86]

no because communication in classic was bs as well. i played around 6-8 months after it dropped and i barely spoke to anyone from 1-60.....just did it mostly by myself

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On mythic+ ye but i mean NORMAL. In vanilla you cant even finish lvling dungeons without CC. In TBC also.

no true at all....you can def get along without saying a word because once people learn how to do it all or they outgear it

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Anon is right. Players were routinely ostracized publicly in-game or official forums from their server if they garnered a poor reputation from their actions; ninja looting, unreliable at group/guild commitments, same faction griefing, and other repeated/unredeemed behavior, and even sometimes the inability to not consistently be the weakest link. Absolutely zero of that was against the rules, and absolutely no one was ever banned from creating advertisements letting other players know about these individuals - that it was in everyones best interest to be wary of them. To a lessened effect and much limited scope (communities more or less gone), this method of giving other players awareness of poor behavior/whatever through the official channels still exists today, with no penalty to those spreading the awareness.

You couldn't be any more wrong about this. At best, there may have been times where Blizzard may have closed a thread that went from awareness to harassment, but no one has ever been banned for tipping off their server community.

pffft idk what server you played on but servers i played on we just called those the top players on the server lol

[Magicon]

I joined a group as healer last night. Got bumped off a ledge and accidentally made a few extra pulls, but healed through it and we survived. Quipped a few jokes, apologized, literally nothing from the other four players.

After a couple bosses I pulled some extra packs while we were clearing. Nobodies health was dropping, we were aoe dpsing anyway, and we were all sub 120. Still no issues clearing, but tank starts complaining and other dps start yelling at me and talking about how stupid I am, special needs, etc etc. Then I’m like “this is the first time you guys say anything and it’s this?” Some complaints about state of the game, and they kick me.

We were almost at the last boss at this point. The group knows they can easily pick up another healer from LFD. They don’t give two shits about my time lost missing out on the final bonus exp and it doesn’t hurt them at all.

Will we ACTUALLY get back to people communicating with each other in Classic?

Groups will be harder to form and replacements will take travel time not to mention just finding someone. These same people would probably have preferred to work it out with me instead of kicking. Hell, I didn’t pull anymore after they said stop. I was just discussing why I thought the extra pulls made sense and they kicked me...

You could argue that these people would never have grouped with me in the first place but forget that argument. Suppose they DID group with me and same scenario came up.

I think either Classic DOES bring back tighter community that’s more willing to engage meaningfully with each other or it ends up falling flat and becoming just another desolate playground for those happy to piddle around with original wow either solo or with a tight group of friends.

yes, else you would be left out and have to do solo-stuff

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And I saw someone writing about people being dicks in dungeons.

Remember, what comes around comes back around. If a player acts like shiet, I think karma will hit him back hard in vanilla.

[evogsr]

pffft idk what server you played on but servers i played on we just called those the top players on the server lol

I was on Gorgonnash from launch day all the way until early BC. It was a med pop PvP server. Either way, my point still holds true.

[czarek]

no true at all....you can def get along without saying a word because once people learn how to do it all or they outgear it

A way from start to learn and outgear was waaaay long in vanilla. Communication was a base to do something back in the days. I cant even count how many times i wiped go back and push again and again and again... etc. Now if someone made wipe = kick no excuses (not always but mostly). For a reason back than was way hard to find replace in a sec and ofc all know all can do mistake or learn. Now players think all should know all and do best.

[Savagedragn]

A way from start to learn and outgear was waaaay long in vanilla. Communication was a base to do something back in the days. I cant even count how many times i wiped go back and push again and again and again... etc. Now if someone made wipe = kick no excuses (not always but mostly). For a reason back than was way hard to find replace in a sec and ofc all know all can do mistake or learn. Now players think all should know all and do best.

I have a sneaky suspicion many posters in here did not actually play vanilla =). My experience was similar to what you’re describing, and you don’t get through that kind of stuff in silence.