There is NO ilvl difference between 8/8M raiders and 0/8 M players

[Roxxy]

Well yeah, it's a MMO. You progress content, see the story unfold and play with friends or guildies. An MMO isn't for you if you don't doing the same thing twice.

Yes but that's not the repeatable content, the repeatable content (Wq's, m+, raids) everyone grinds is to power up their character either through gear or empowering their necklace. No one would enjoy doing the same thing over and over, it would get stale quick, that's why mmo's have always had a carrot to do so. Because they literally couldn't provide new content fast enough if they weren't relying on such a method. Sure there are a few people that don't care about gear and do stuff just to be with friends but the majority of them made the friends while they went in to power up their characters.

[Deleted]

Blizzard published infographic during 10th anniversary. During the 10 first years of WoW around 90M people had tried it and quit during the first 10 years. A bit less than 10M were still playing at that point. I doubt the main reason for quitting is Blizzard's design choices.

I am talking about those 10m players what game reached during wod and legion than lost 70%+ player base withing first month.

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WoW is suffering from SJW's, everyone has to be equal. Join a battleground and everyone gets scaled to the same item level, in raids everyone gets the same loot. That's why WoW is all about aesthetics these days, gear doesn't matter anymore.

It's sad we have so many bad people with the power to push their SJW agenda.

Aesthetica also doesnt matter becouse only valuable aesthetics are mop challenge mod gear, legion mage tower and wod challenge mod weapons. Rest can be refarmed by everyone so they all lost value.

[molathwonker]

WoW is suffering from SJW's, everyone has to be equal. Join a battleground and everyone gets scaled to the same item level, in raids everyone gets the same loot. That's why WoW is all about aesthetics these days, gear doesn't matter anymore.

It's sad we have so many bad people with the power to push their SJW agenda.

No everyone does not get scaled to the same level. That happened in Legion. It was dropped for BFA.

Like most people using the word "SJW" you know nothing about anything. Even apparently the game you are talking about. Have you maybe considered doing what other people do and not talk about things you don't understand?

[ArenaDk]

WoW is suffering from SJW's, everyone has to be equal. Join a battleground and everyone gets scaled to the same item level, in raids everyone gets the same loot. That's why WoW is all about aesthetics these days, gear doesn't matter anymore.

It's sad we have so many bad people with the power to push their SJW agenda.

Oh no, you can’t out gear people anymore and you need skill. Oh my god that’s horrible. A pvp game should never be about skill. Always about one shoting and making silly videos to show how fast you can kill fresh players.

[Thontor]

Heaven forbid there is more than one way to get high level gear

Oh, I forgot. Raiding is the only legitimate way to get high level gear. my bad.

[Deleted]

Oh no, you can’t out gear people anymore and you need skill. Oh my god that’s horrible. A pvp game should never be about skill. Always about one shoting and making silly videos to show how fast you can kill fresh players.

This is RPG. Skill should never be only aspect what should matter. It should be like 50/50. And yes fresh players deserver to be killed becouse they spend less time playing a game absolutly nothing wrong about that.

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How do you know those 10M are not the subset of those 100M?
And how do you know these brand new 10M players who tried Legion left because they all hated the design choices?

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So you're saying that Blizzard devs DO listen to players after all?

Read forums, ask in game, as your friends why they left. You know ussual stuff. It is no like you need 1 000 000 of players opinions. All you need is small sample of players and chance taht rest left for same reason is pretty high. I dont know if you checked current stats on active characters for eu. But right know there is about 1.3 or something active characters for eu realms. Consider fact everyone have atles 3+ alts thats about 400k+ active players for entire eu realms. You dont need any specific numbers from blizz to rogure out game is at all time low subs and 99% of all reasons why people quit are all same. And it is not beoucse of they grow old, game is old or mmorpf are no longer popular non of it.

[Jazzhands]

This is RPG. Skill should never be only aspect what should matter. It should be like 50/50. And yes fresh players deserver to be killed becouse they spend less time playing a game absolutly nothing wrong about that.

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Read forums, ask in game, as your friends why they left. You know ussual stuff. It is no like you need 1 000 000 of players opinions. All you need is small sample of players and chance taht rest left for same reason is pretty high. I dont know if you checked current stats on active characters for eu. But right know there is about 1.3 or something active characters for eu realms. Consider fact everyone have atles 3+ alts thats about 400k+ active players for entire eu realms. You dont need any specific numbers from blizz to rogure out game is at all time low subs and 99% of all reasons why people quit are all same. And it is not beoucse of they grow old, game is old or mmorpf are no longer popular non of it.

There's a reason people gather 100+ people when doing surveys. A small group isn't enough to form anything, this is a basic of statistics. You can say what you want, but going against long established and accepted methods won't get you far.

Also 3rd party population websites are rather inaccurate. The games population is likely not really stellar, but no one can really make a claim as to the number. Only Blizzard knows.

Also claiming EVERYONE has 3 alts? Yeah, unlikely.

[lappee]

Heaven forbid there is more than one way to get high level gear

Oh, I forgot. Raiding is the only legitimate way to get high level gear. my bad.

Having multiple ways is fine, M+, PvP and Raids being good examples of it. However getting high end loot from tasks that one is able to do the moment they ding? yeah, no.

[shise]

Sorry man but it only looks like you are what we use to call a "horny looter", only caring about loot and being better geared than anyone around.
The thing is, do you play for loots or for fun?
Gear is nice, everyone wants it, but you get nothing from being 10 times better geared than someone else, just because you did mythic 8/8.. none cares, thousands of players do the same.
If you are good, gear wont make a difference.

[ArenaDk]

Removing gear advantages hurts in more than one way.

Use me as an example. In the old days, if I took a break from the game, I'd come back and then get destroyed in a BG by players with much better gear. Because I'm competitive, it drove me to work on better gear so I could compete at a higher level again. I'm not saying I'm the norm, but I'm sure there are many others out there like me. My lack of relevant gear became a driver for me to invest time in the game, and I enjoyed the process.

Compare this to the game today ...

I took almost 3 months off, logged in and did some BGs. Even after an extended break, I remained one of the top players in every BG. I never felt undergeared and I never felt like gear was relevant at all. The result? I got bored after a few BGs and haven't logged in since. And sure, I know some people will say, 'hey just play for fun', but for vets like me ... wow does not mix up their pvp enough to keep it fresh enough to 'play just for fun' ... so additional incentives are needed to help create a desire to play. It's an ugly truth but one all the same.

In short - gear rewards are indeed important for many of us.

To be honest. Iam happy then if people like you leave. I rather play with people who enjoy the game than with people like you.
And it is not as if gear doesn’t matter at all. Only that in bgs the skill level is so low that it seem to don’t matter.

Play some high arena or rbg with under 370 and we talk about gear being useless.

[lappee]

To be honest. Iam happy then if people like you leave. I rather play with people who enjoy the game than with people like you.
And it is not as if gear doesn’t matter at all. Only that in bgs the skill level is so low that it seem to don’t matter.

Play some high arena or rbg with under 370 and we talk about gear being useless.

WoW is PRG though, not primary PvP only game. Don't want the RPG aspects of the game to modify your PvP experience? then please leave and play Fortnite all you want.

Doing high arena or rbg with sub 370 is nothing new, it just doesn't last very long since they do get rewarded with gear rather quickly.

[Deleted]

Sorry man but it only looks like you are what we use to call a "horny looter", only caring about loot and being better geared than anyone around.
The thing is, do you play for loots or for fun?
Gear is nice, everyone wants it, but you get nothing from being 10 times better geared than someone else, just because you did mythic 8/8.. none cares, thousands of players do the same.
If you are good, gear wont make a difference.

I play for fun. Getting new and powerfull loot what others dont own is fun.

[Deleted]

It is absolutely pathetic to see that people with no Mythic progression what so ever (or at best Taloc/Mother in pugs) have the exact same ilvl as my main that progressed trough Udlir and now counts 44 mythic boss killed actually sitting at 385 ilvl. I also see that with my alts, my DH is 384 and rogue 385 ilvl, both are not even close to have the same time and effort invested of my main.

Truth is, Mythic raiding will only give you gear a little bit faster in this game, but at the end of the day: Blizzard is just throwing Mythic ilvl gear to everybody and for no reason. Just for the sake of everybody being equal, even if you don't do shit in this game they want you to be as geared a hardcore player.

This was already the case in Legion but in BFA this issue has just been so inflated it's seems like a parody. This game has gone to pure shit in every way possible it's fucking pathetic.

WHy you care so much about ILVL? is that something important to you? ? is high ilvl some SKILL BADGE? xD

[Deleted]

WHy you care so much about ILVL? is that something important to you? ? is high ilvl some SKILL BADGE? xD

This is RPG not compettive game.

[bigbleach]

It is absolutely pathetic to see that people with no Mythic progression what so ever (or at best Taloc/Mother in pugs) have the exact same ilvl as my main that progressed trough Udlir and now counts 44 mythic boss killed actually sitting at 385 ilvl. I also see that with my alts, my DH is 384 and rogue 385 ilvl, both are not even close to have the same time and effort invested of my main.

Truth is, Mythic raiding will only give you gear a little bit faster in this game, but at the end of the day: Blizzard is just throwing Mythic ilvl gear to everybody and for no reason. Just for the sake of everybody being equal, even if you don't do shit in this game they want you to be as geared a hardcore player.

This was already the case in Legion but in BFA this issue has just been so inflated it's seems like a parody. This game has gone to pure shit in every way possible it's fucking pathetic.

Man you sound like a snowflake... "MUH ILVLS R MINE NOT URS CASADRULS. MUHNE"

[velikanthehunterr]

The difference between a pleb and a top raider is that the top raider has had 388+ ilvl for months now, but a pleb has only just gained it.

Ofcourse given 4 months you'll be decked out, it's common sense at this point.

[-aiko-]

It's the end of the tier. Who cares?

Mythic raiders got to this item level much faster and when it was actually relevant. I don't care if random Joe just hit 385 by opening his latest weekly box.

[Onikaroshi]

The thing is, do you play for loots or for fun?

You make it sound like they're mutually exclusive, they're not, getting gear is what's fun for a lot of people.

[ArenaDk]

That's a little bit ignorant to say the least.

Players like yourself seem to get immediately offended by the idea that perhaps WoW PVP has gotten stale for those of us that have played since vanilla. And you are offended by the idea that the game should provide a robust reward system ... in addition to being fun.

I guess you are probably one of those people that don't like kids keeping score in soccer so that there are 'no losers - everybody wins'.

Well, have fun with that lol.

Not really. Iam just sad that some people need their power feeling to get a rush. Pls build your safe space somewhere else or accept that you suck at pvp without op gear.

[Thelin]

It is absolutely pathetic to see that people with no Mythic progression what so ever (or at best Taloc/Mother in pugs) have the exact same ilvl as my main that progressed trough Udlir and now counts 44 mythic boss killed actually sitting at 385 ilvl. I also see that with my alts, my DH is 384 and rogue 385 ilvl, both are not even close to have the same time and effort invested of my main.

Truth is, Mythic raiding will only give you gear a little bit faster in this game, but at the end of the day: Blizzard is just throwing Mythic ilvl gear to everybody and for no reason. Just for the sake of everybody being equal, even if you don't do shit in this game they want you to be as geared a hardcore player.

This was already the case in Legion but in BFA this issue has just been so inflated it's seems like a parody. This game has gone to pure shit in every way possible it's fucking pathetic.

You clearly missed why raiding is around. It's just one of many outlets to obtain gear but a different way of doing so. Sure its quite a bit different than previous expansions but you'll certainly gear faster. It's the patch before the next raid tier where people can farm invasions/darkshore/etc to catch up since 385 is meaningless here pretty soon. Raiding has always been about the greater challenge than standard content.

TLDR Cry less.