Dungeons + Paladins

[sixeph]

So I have a dream, that one day I will be a level 60 paladin.

Quick background - I started when BC launched in early 2007, and never leveled Alliance until after Cata. I leveled a few Horde toons past 60 before they started nerfing the XP on Azeroth, and I have some fun memories of being a newb. I'm excited for Classic because I feel like Live is a giant timetable of things that you can do only when Blizzard says you can, and it feels like a job, not an adventure.

I want to play paladin again (I leveled a Belf one in BC) and I will primarily just focus on healing.

I've read a few of different places that tanking is considered acceptable for dungeons, but I wanted to ask about some specifics.

1. Was it really seen as OK for a pally to tank endgame dungeons (Scholo/Strat)?
2. Does holy damage still scale off of spell power? In BC I used a spell mace after 60 as I was told at the time it was good for threat. I'm wondering if this was a thing in Vanilla as well.

I know they aren't really good for raids cause of the whole no taunt thing, and I would have no desire to do that, but I also would love to have the flexibility to heal dungeons for my guild and friends.

Thanks!

[Thage]

So long as you were capable of holding threat, you could pally or bear tank the 60 dungeons fine. You'd need your DPS to hold back longer than with Warriors, though if you set up a kill order, with Consecrate you'll have an easier time holding aggro on adds than a stance-dancing Warrior. Not sure about what weapons you'd want; I do know that if you want to DPS in dungeons, speccing Holy and putting Crusader on Verigan's Fist turns paladins into wrecking balls.

[parcus]

Except for DM N I could tank everything with my hybrid holy/tank spec. DM N would require a decent healer and clever use of positioning though. Do bring a mage or you will spend too much money on water.

[smityx]

So I have a dream, that one day I will be a level 60 paladin.

Quick background - I started when BC launched in early 2007, and never leveled Alliance until after Cata. I leveled a few Horde toons past 60 before they started nerfing the XP on Azeroth, and I have some fun memories of being a newb. I'm excited for Classic because I feel like Live is a giant timetable of things that you can do only when Blizzard says you can, and it feels like a job, not an adventure.

I want to play paladin again (I leveled a Belf one in BC) and I will primarily just focus on healing.

I've read a few of different places that tanking is considered acceptable for dungeons, but I wanted to ask about some specifics.

1. Was it really seen as OK for a pally to tank endgame dungeons (Scholo/Strat)?
2. Does holy damage still scale off of spell power? In BC I used a spell mace after 60 as I was told at the time it was good for threat. I'm wondering if this was a thing in Vanilla as well.

I know they aren't really good for raids cause of the whole no taunt thing, and I would have no desire to do that, but I also would love to have the flexibility to heal dungeons for my guild and friends.

Thanks!

In the beginning paladins were only good for 1 thing. Sitting the side lines doing O.O.C. ressing during boss fights.

[Deleted]

You will do fine.

Paladins are actually good tanks in the endgame 5mans...because they can actually hold AoE Aggro (looking at you, warris, who start screaming if I even think about using Hellfire).

Their only downside is that they have to sit and drink after basically every pull.
But that's okay.

Only, do me one favor:
If you think about tanking UBRS, a) bring a warri or bear as your second, and give a killorder. Things can go shite pretty damn quick in that place when everyone's in starter gear :P

[Armourboy]

The undead ones you can so pretty well, UBRS is a bit tougher but doable. Pretty sure I used my healing mace back then, but that was ages ago so who knows. I kept a ton of gear on me that I would swap out all the time.

[garicasha]

Yah they could tank end-game dungeons. Drakkisath and Rattlegore are probably the two hardest-hitting and I don't see why a pally couldn't do them.

The very first time I did Dire Maul West we had an enhancement shaman tank Prince Tortheldrin. It wasn't pretty and it took hours with a few ragequits and replacements...but we got 'er done. (Back then enhancement shamans could use shields.)

Don't expect to be the darling of the min-max crowd, but that's what mythic raiding and mythic+ is for on retail. It'll probably take 5-10 minutes longer for a pally than a warrior with all the drinking for a 1-hour dungeon.

Killing mobs in order was a much bigger deal back then.

I believe +spell damage made holy abilities do more damage, it's not like live where attack power increases spellpower.

[anon5123]

Paladins are great for tanking dungeons, it's raids that they suck at.

Yes, they scale with spell damage, but only so much. And there's really not much plate gear with spell damage on it until T2. (and not until 1.9, if the server uses progressive itemization)

Scholo and Strat are the two dungeons Paladins really excel at since like half the mobs are undead, so you can use Exorcism to range pull or just get a bunch of extra threat. Even in blue gear I could tank Strat UD without much problem.

The only real issues you run into are bosses that have threat drops, like Cannon Master Wiley or Ramstein.

I use this spec: http://classicdb.ch/?talent#sVxubxsZVGzIczx

For tanking and healing. Not exactly optimal tanking (no Holy Shield), but does perfectly fine, and also lets you heal dungeons/raids perfectly fine as well, since the only thing you're missing is 5% holy crit. (Holy Shock is garbage)

Except for DM N I could tank everything with my hybrid holy/tank spec. DM N would require a decent healer and clever use of positioning though. Do bring a mage or you will spend too much money on water.

Huh? I've tanked DM N a shitload of times on my paladin without issues. No "clever positioning" required, I tanked it the same exact way that I did on my Warrior.

You'd need your DPS to hold back longer

Not really, you just put Salv on the DPS if they pull too much threat. I have 0 threat issues with salv'd DPS.

[Thage]

Not really, you just put Salv on the DPS if they pull too much threat. I have 0 threat issues with salv'd DPS.

I legit forgot Salv was a thing. Damn, it's been way too long...

[Soon-TM]

I believe +spell damage made holy abilities do more damage, it's not like live where attack power increases spellpower.

Yes, STR increased AP while spellpower increased holy damage. Pallies worked as actual hybrids in Vanilla AP giving spellpower was added in WotLK iirc.

[Vaelorian]

So I have a dream, that one day I will be a level 60 paladin.

Quick background - I started when BC launched in early 2007, and never leveled Alliance until after Cata. I leveled a few Horde toons past 60 before they started nerfing the XP on Azeroth, and I have some fun memories of being a newb. I'm excited for Classic because I feel like Live is a giant timetable of things that you can do only when Blizzard says you can, and it feels like a job, not an adventure.

I want to play paladin again (I leveled a Belf one in BC) and I will primarily just focus on healing.

I've read a few of different places that tanking is considered acceptable for dungeons, but I wanted to ask about some specifics.

1. Was it really seen as OK for a pally to tank endgame dungeons (Scholo/Strat)?
2. Does holy damage still scale off of spell power? In BC I used a spell mace after 60 as I was told at the time it was good for threat. I'm wondering if this was a thing in Vanilla as well.

I know they aren't really good for raids cause of the whole no taunt thing, and I would have no desire to do that, but I also would love to have the flexibility to heal dungeons for my guild and friends.

Thanks!

I tanked regularly in dungeons in Vanilla as a paladin. It was fine. Be prepared to DRINK every other pull (depending on your gear). That is mostly the downside. Good thing is that you can also heal yourself if required. I can remember that many times the healer we had sucked so bad that I just went tank and heal at the same time. Could clear every dungeon in that way. But I am unsure what kind of gear I had at the time. I played everything including naxx. Once you had naxx gear you could not get killed anyway.

[VanishingAct]

Pallies had a holy/prot spec that did good enough tanking for most end game dungeons. Undead dungeons like strat favors a pally more. But the problem was their mana management was terrible and it slowed the run down tremendously.

[Tekkommo]

Paladins should stfu and heal.

[anon5123]

But the problem was their mana management was terrible and it slowed the run down tremendously.

You only have to drink every other pull if you're a noob spamming consecrate and/or not wearing int gear.

Once you have lots of T1/T2 gear, you should have like 5k+ mana when buffed with arcane int / kings. I've got a mix of T1 and T2 gear + other stam/int pieces, and I only have to drink every 4 pulls or so. Not a bad trade-off for having super good AoE threat and being able to dispel myself / others.

[Rapti]

Id give you a chance for dungeons, but Id state at the very start that if you wont be up to the task for a more or less smooth (as in not wiping countless times on pulls/bosses etc. - occasional wipe or so is not a problem as its part of most of the runs) run you'd get replaced and in future denied to tank (it's Classic - so "And remember, respect is everything") in any group I would be in. Of course this works both ways (do good, be referred).

[RohanV]

In my opinion, in Vanilla dungeons, paladins and shamans were not tanks, healers, or dps. They were support, and a group was meant to be [tank, healer, dps, dps, support]. A paladin runs into melee, judges, seals, and then focuses on the group. Toss a heal if needed, use Blessings, maybe tank one mob to help out. Back up both the tank and the healer at the same time. That's why paladin combat was so passive.

[chooi]

In my opinion, in Vanilla dungeons, paladins and shamans were not tanks, healers, or dps. They were support, and a group was meant to be [tank, healer, dps, dps, support]. A paladin runs into melee, judges, seals, and then focuses on the group. Toss a heal if needed, use Blessings, maybe tank one mob to help out. Back up both the tank and the healer at the same time. That's why paladin combat was so passive.

There is no supporter role in WoW. There are tanks/healers/dps that bring additional group support (buffs, debuffs, CDs) to offset the fact that they are not 'pure' tanks/healers/dps but that's really it. Why would you want to bring a Holy Priest and a hybrid Paladin when you can just take a Holy Priest/Paladin and an actual DPS class? Not saying you can't or shouldn't because Vanilla dungeons were trivial and the social aspect was more important but it's surely not gonna be an optimal group composition.

[garicasha]

Although maybe the better question here is if paladins are good at levels when they're still looking for upgrades from dungeon bosses.

[anon5123]

There is no supporter role in WoW. There are tanks/healers/dps that bring additional group support (buffs, debuffs, CDs) to offset the fact that they are not 'pure' tanks/healers/dps but that's really it. Why would you want to bring a Holy Priest and a hybrid Paladin when you can just take a Holy Priest/Paladin and an actual DPS class?

Vanilla wasn't designed with the 15+ years of MMO experience we have now. It was designed around Diablo 2, Everquest and Ultima, mostly.

[chooi]

Vanilla wasn't designed with the 15+ years of MMO experience we have now. It was designed around Diablo 2, Everquest and Ultima, mostly.

Doesn't change the fact that there is no pure supporter role in WoW and never has been. I wish there was. But there is a reason why Tank-Heal-DPS is called 'the holy trinity' of WoW. If we want to make a stretch then early Vanilla Paladin buff bot might be closest thing to a supporter role as their primary job was simply blessing 40 raidmembers single-handedly each 5min and staying out of combat to resurrect dead people.

BTW: D&D was another major influence for original WoW devs.