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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Please explain. It had the exact opposite effect for me. I play (and enjoy) WoW much less, because I can no longer farm the previous expansion's content.
    What?

    I'm saying the 11 lvl rule for legacy loot is a malicious decision to make farming Legion items harder as to artificially increase play time. They probably saw how popular farming WoD raids was in Legion, but in WoD you could simply set up a group in group finder so you could change loot settings. They even were so vile to argue that the 11 lvl rule didn't change anything because the same counted for WoD content at 110, completely ignoring the fact people could do the aforementioned group finder trick.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Please explain. It had the exact opposite effect for me. I play (and enjoy) WoW much less, because I can no longer farm the previous expansion's content.
    Agreed, it just feels silly to farm Legion content now for things I missed knowing that next xpac it will be much easier. At the same time, WoD content is just too easy with BfA Gear (except Hellfire Assault, fuck Hellfire Assault)

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle June Bug View Post
    I'm saying the 11 lvl rule for legacy loot is a malicious decision to make farming Legion items harder as to artificially increase play time.
    If that was their intention, it hugely backfired. I never, ever, enter Legion dungeons or raids. Again, you have an 85% chance of getting no loot whatsoever with each kill, and a 15% chance of getting one piece of loot. This change didn't extend the amount of time I farm Legion content, it made me not farm Legion content at all.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    If that was their intention, it hugely backfired. I never, ever, enter Legion dungeons or raids. Again, you have an 85% chance of getting no loot whatsoever with each kill, and a 15% chance of getting one piece of loot. This change didn't extend the amount of time I farm Legion content, it made me not farm Legion content at all.
    Ofcourse it backfired, just like it has for every other aspect of the game where they implemented it (Titanforging treadmill, Islands etc)

  5. #65
    I don't think that was their intention. From what they actually wrote, it seems like they don't want players to farm content one expansion back, when it's actually challenging. They killed a large part of the game I enjoy and it's not clear why.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibalus View Post
    RNG is RNG and that is pretty clear to me that this promotes potentially infinite playtime. Which makes the mounts more valuable than something that you get in 20 chests. Collecting stuff can create this little moster in your head that thinks that everything that you did not collect prevents you from being whole or whatever. It's a misconception that many people have, this entitlement, this absolute form of materialism projected over pixels. It is the reason shitty FTP games are thriving because people are desperate to collect every shitty cosmetic, pet etc.
    It's certainly better to not get OCD over completing collections, I'd agree. I wouldn't use the word "entitlement" though, given that people are actually quite willing to put in a lot of work on things, they just like to have some sense that their work won't go to 100% waste. "Absolute form of materialism" also seems a bit melodramatic. Usually "materialist" is a description for people who prioritize the material over human relationships, spirituality, or any other more higher-purpose thing, and we never really know much of anything about the real lives of people who are lodging complaints about a reward system in their favored hobby.

    I'd also say entitlement is a word that kind of lets game designers weasel out of their conscious decisions to encourage people to pursue rewards and then design those rewards to work off of punishing RNG models. "Oh, the problem's not our model, it's that these players are just too entitled."

    This kind of stuff can really backfire too. One thing I've noticed about collector types over the years is that IF they fully give up on a goal, because the goal just became too extreme in RNG investment, it can break their desire to invest in the game entirely. Once a collector type stops trying to "keep up," it's often a prelude to a perma-quit. People quit and come back to the game all the time, but the collectors I've seen quit (at least personally seen) as a result of RNG rage never came back.

  7. #67
    Well, it's probably a good thing that it's very difficult or impossible to collect everything in a game.

    You can only have a sense of exploration and discovery when there is so much content in the game that it's hard to gather or even know about everything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    I don't think that was their intention. From what they actually wrote, it seems like they don't want players to farm content one expansion back, when it's actually challenging. They killed a large part of the game I enjoy and it's not clear why.
    Because there is a problem when a large part of the playerbase spends most of their time on last expansions content instead of the current expansion.
    We are often struck down easily. However no matter how often beaten, we can't forget the joy we felt during the dispute. The pleasure of stretching our willpower. The pleasure of trying out our own strength. The pleasure of seeing a manifestation of real comradely emotions among friends. The pleasure of seeing the world clearly split into camps of foes and friends. The pleasure of seeing an improvement in our own personality. by Sakae Osugi

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Torvald View Post
    It's certainly better to not get OCD over completing collections, I'd agree. I wouldn't use the word "entitlement" though, given that people are actually quite willing to put in a lot of work on things, they just like to have some sense that their work won't go to 100% waste. "Absolute form of materialism" also seems a bit melodramatic. Usually "materialist" is a description for people who prioritize the material over human relationships, spirituality, or any other more higher-purpose thing, and we never really know much of anything about the real lives of people who are lodging complaints about a reward system in their favored hobby.

    I'd also say entitlement is a word that kind of lets game designers weasel out of their conscious decisions to encourage people to pursue rewards and then design those rewards to work off of punishing RNG models. "Oh, the problem's not our model, it's that these players are just too entitled."

    This kind of stuff can really backfire too. One thing I've noticed about collector types over the years is that IF they fully give up on a goal, because the goal just became too extreme in RNG investment, it can break their desire to invest in the game entirely. Once a collector type stops trying to "keep up," it's often a prelude to a perma-quit. People quit and come back to the game all the time, but the collectors I've seen quit (at least personally seen) as a result of RNG rage never came back.
    THIS. I didn't understand why I hadn't played in a bit. I knew it was frustrating realizing that the RNG was layers on layers now but usually I find other hobbies in game. It just permeates the game now and it made me feel like, "why bother?"

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Torvald View Post
    This kind of stuff can really backfire too. One thing I've noticed about collector types over the years is that IF they fully give up on a goal, because the goal just became too extreme in RNG investment, it can break their desire to invest in the game entirely. Once a collector type stops trying to "keep up," it's often a prelude to a perma-quit. People quit and come back to the game all the time, but the collectors I've seen quit (at least personally seen) as a result of RNG rage never came back.
    This is me.


  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Because there is a problem when a large part of the playerbase spends most of their time on last expansions content instead of the current expansion.
    So it's better for them to spend time on expansions 2 or more releases back? I don't get that reasoning. If that was the case they would have never implemented legacy loot in the first place, forcing personal loot for everything and killing farming old content dead.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    My only issue with Islands is the transmogs. The rest I think I will eventually get, if not now then on the next xpac when you'll be able to chain solo Mythic Islands fairly fast. But the transmogs are so many. I just wish there was a better way to get them (make them ensembles or have those tokens they are adding in 8.1.5 cover all slots and drop the island mogs).

    On the world quests I agree that it is bullshit. I still think they should reduce the RNG of world quests by changing them to be selected with a "deck of cards" method instead of full RNG.
    The only issue i have with islands is that loot is no longer targetable. But thats the result of the vocal majority getting what they asked for.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    I don't think that was their intention. From what they actually wrote, it seems like they don't want players to farm content one expansion back, when it's actually challenging. They killed a large part of the game I enjoy and it's not clear why.
    I would guess one reason would be so the people who didn't get BFA and are still playing on Legion can't just go in a mythic raid with a few 120's and get geared up right away.

  13. #73
    Yeah, that seems super unlikely.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyrinx View Post
    Yeah, BFA's biggest issue for collectors is Islands, period full stop.

    The Emissary system was 10x... maybe 100x.... better than this nonsense.
    Honestly, sort of, yes. Looking back at my list, islands do stand out as the worse part maybe, but still so many issues as well...

    And again this is compared to also other expansions RNG
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  15. #75
    Everyone complaining about RNG understands it has existed since day 1 that this game came out, right? It’s not a new concept. The major difference is that there are now many more areas for it to be so prominent as there are more things for the average player to do and notice.

  16. #76
    I'd rather farm boring IEs than ever have to take a step on Timeless Isle again. Both are horrible for collectors though.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Explicit Teemo Nudes View Post
    I'd rather farm boring IEs than ever have to take a step on Timeless Isle again. Both are horrible for collectors though.
    We'll yes, timeless isle was a total turd for a few grinds. Obviously bigger bags is wow's worst shit ever. But Islands for me was more a fun, semi-casual, content but now its the most hard-core wow grind since...well yes timeless isle, or I guess a few grinds back in vanilla, tbc or wotlk?
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  18. #78
    The problem with islands is the real rewards as designed are complete garbage that few people care about (azerite), so the only real reason to do them is the supposedly rare stuff (and leveling, I suppose).

    And since the gameplay didn't work out too well they aren't actually fun to do, you just run around killing randomly generated and placed monsters. It turns into a enormous RNG grind.

    They should make all the various pets and whatnot tied to specific monster-types on the island relatively common, so players are overwhelmingly likely to get all the pirate themed toys/mounts/etc in, say, 10 mythic or PvP islands with pirates. (Or 20 heroic, or 40 normal.) And then you just never do islands with pirates ever again. That would still be a ton of islands overall, but the grind would feel more targeted, and it would feel like it has an end.

    Then every month or two you add new island monster types with corresponding rewards and people go back and grab 'em.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2019-03-18 at 07:57 PM.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    The problem with islands is the real rewards as designed are complete garbage that few people care about (azerite), so the only real reason to do them is the supposedly rare stuff (and leveling, I suppose).

    And since the gameplay didn't work out too well they aren't actually fun to do, you just run around killing randomly generated and placed monsters. It turns into a enormous RNG grind.

    They should make all the various pets and whatnot tied to specific monster-types on the island relatively common, so players are overwhelmingly likely to get all the pirate themed toys/mounts/etc in, say, 10 mythic or PvP islands with pirates. (Or 20 heroic, or 40 normal.) And then you just never do islands with pirates ever again. That would still be a ton of islands overall, but the grind would feel more targeted, and it would feel like it has an end.

    Then every month or two you add new island monster types with corresponding rewards and people go back and grab 'em.
    Hire this person!

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    The problem with islands is the real rewards as designed are complete garbage that few people care about (azerite), so the only real reason to do them is the supposedly rare stuff (and leveling, I suppose).

    And since the gameplay didn't work out too well they aren't actually fun to do, you just run around killing randomly generated and placed monsters. It turns into a enormous RNG grind.

    They should make all the various pets and whatnot tied to specific monster-types on the island relatively common, so players are overwhelmingly likely to get all the pirate themed toys/mounts/etc in, say, 10 mythic or PvP islands with pirates. (Or 20 heroic, or 40 normal.) And then you just never do islands with pirates ever again. That would still be a ton of islands overall, but the grind would feel more targeted, and it would feel like it has an end.

    Then every month or two you add new island monster types with corresponding rewards and people go back and grab 'em.
    Could be one solution yes.

    PS I just noticed, rather late, that paragon chest rewards are also fucking faction specific...I mean it never stops. So much fucking faction only items in BFA. WOD had what 1 faction only mount, legion...? had what, and BFA has like 300-500 hours of faction only grinds...
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