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  1. #21
    if that's the quest I'm thinking off... it also doesn't require much in the way of stealth either.

    though to be honest, stealth in swtor never really seemed all that 'right' killing any and all witnesses was a better way of remaining unknown with how they set you up. Storywise you're always good at 'sneaking' around despite your class abilities choices.

    edit:

    also, after playing stuff like dnd and other table top games (and seeing how they handle the concept of 'stealth'/'hide'/'move silently'/etc) I find that some of these concepts of deception aren't tied to one's ability to 'hide' but are better attributed to other skills.

    like in DnD it's far easier to perform/lie/diplomance your way through bullshit than it is to fall back on sight/sound concealment.
    Last edited by mickybrighteyes; 2019-01-11 at 01:44 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    And on top of that, for me, I was wanting to do some RP with it as well. Ok this quest wants me to be one with the enemy and gain their trust. Switching to Operative with the ability to stealth sounds like the way to go instead of walking in with a sniper rifle on my back lol.
    Honestly, leveling wise, Operative is the way to go IMO due to stealth and how much trash you can just skip through with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by zoefschildpad View Post
    That doesn't make any sense for the story. Your character trained for a long time to be a sniper, and now suddenly you pay some money, forget all about how to use a sniper rifle and suddenly gain the ability to stealth.

    It seems obvious to me that the design intent behind the advanced classes is that they are essentially the classes of the game. The only reason they share a base class is because making 8 class stories was already an unprecedented undertaking, making 16 would be insane. Other MMO's don't let you change classes either.

    Also this lets you do all the stories without having to level the same class twice.
    The issue is the class trained in both but then now suddenly only gets to use one set of the disciplines. For Imperial Agent specifically, the story shows them using both operative and sniper skills throughout the cut scenes so it is kind of weird that you can't use sniper skills at all once you turn into an Operative.

    For the other classes it's a bit more understandable, but as I said, for Imperial Agent it's a little weird.

    From a technical stand point though, I totally agree with you.
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are Stupid

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Honestly, leveling wise, Operative is the way to go IMO due to stealth and how much trash you can just skip through with it.



    The issue is the class trained in both but then now suddenly only gets to use one set of the disciplines. For Imperial Agent specifically, the story shows them using both operative and sniper skills throughout the cut scenes so it is kind of weird that you can't use sniper skills at all once you turn into an Operative.

    For the other classes it's a bit more understandable, but as I said, for Imperial Agent it's a little weird.

    From a technical stand point though, I totally agree with you.
    I don't know, I'm only level 35 with my Sniper, but so far the story and quests have been really lackluster. I was expecting to actually using my skill kit to complete certain quests. But all it is, is storm this droid factory, kill 35 droids, click on a few things that are highlighted blue and you're done.

    All the "intelligence" part of it is done for me prior, by Keeper and Watcher 2. And any class can do what I just did.

    Say what you want about WoW but at least their quests are unique at times. Heck, I felt more of an intelligence agent during the Murder questline in Westfall where I had to hide in a box at a certain rendezvous, listen in from a safe distance on a group, etc.

    I've heard raving things about this games "Story mode" but so far it's pretty boring and not giving me a class identity.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    I don't know, I'm only level 35 with my Sniper, but so far the story and quests have been really lackluster. I was expecting to actually using my skill kit to complete certain quests. But all it is, is storm this droid factory, kill 35 droids, click on a few things that are highlighted blue and you're done.

    All the "intelligence" part of it is done for me prior, by Keeper and Watcher 2. And any class can do what I just did.

    Say what you want about WoW but at least their quests are unique at times. Heck, I felt more of an intelligence agent during the Murder questline in Westfall where I had to hide in a box at a certain rendezvous, listen in from a safe distance on a group, etc.

    I've heard raving things about this games "Story mode" but so far it's pretty boring and not giving me a class identity.
    The story in and of itself is what gives the class it's identity, not the game play, as there would be balancing issues. Game play wise, Operative is literally identical to the Scoundrel.

    Imperial Agent is lauded as one of the better stories in the game, what about it is boring to you?
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are Stupid

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    I don't know, I'm only level 35 with my Sniper, but so far the story and quests have been really lackluster. I was expecting to actually using my skill kit to complete certain quests. But all it is, is storm this droid factory, kill 35 droids, click on a few things that are highlighted blue and you're done.

    All the "intelligence" part of it is done for me prior, by Keeper and Watcher 2. And any class can do what I just did.

    Say what you want about WoW but at least their quests are unique at times. Heck, I felt more of an intelligence agent during the Murder questline in Westfall where I had to hide in a box at a certain rendezvous, listen in from a safe distance on a group, etc.

    I've heard raving things about this games "Story mode" but so far it's pretty boring and not giving me a class identity.
    Your class identify is delivered through the narrative, not the gameplay. I really can't remember any class story where you needed to use specific class only abilities to reach a goal/defeat an enemy, you could literally swap classes and nothing would change. It's the story your character goes through that more defines your class identity, and which advanced class more informs your playstyle and your class identity.

    That being said, I found the Imperial Agent storyline to be...less than exciting compared to what a lot of others said. Has some of the better dialogue IMO, but the overall narrative is...pretty ludicrous to the point where it ruined a lot of the fun for me.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Honestly, even back then I doubt they'd have been able to. The beta version they used seemed extremely janky and BW as a company overall has never really seemed to have a crop of talented engineers.

    They made a stupid decision to go with the beta Hero Engine that's just repeatedly bit them in the ass time and time again as they run into one engineering problem after another. And given that they've never really had strong engineers, it's only compounded the problem : /
    Sadly, every bit of that is true when it comes to swtor from launch to now. I would not be shocked at all if that were to ever actually get released and we find out that to be exactly why bioware was and has never been able o=to do certain things in swtor. That damn beta hero engine.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    The story in and of itself is what gives the class it's identity, not the game play, as there would be balancing issues. Game play wise, Operative is literally identical to the Scoundrel.

    Imperial Agent is lauded as one of the better stories in the game, what about it is boring to you?
    I already exclaimed what is boring to me. I would rather DO Sniper only things then hear about it during a conversation. The quests are almost all the same like I pointed out. Where's the quest where I have to hide in a bush and lay a trap for the leader of the Balmorra resistance to come out then use my Snipe and take him out quietly? The quests are literally: WE(not you you) gathered all of the intelligence. WE(not you) found out this persons weakness. WE(not you) found this person. You job is to click on the highlighted blue thing and blow throw 15-35 enemies. I don't feel like an Intelligence Agent. I feel like a balls to the wall mercenary for hire.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    I already exclaimed what is boring to me. I would rather DO Sniper only things then hear about it during a conversation. The quests are almost all the same like I pointed out. Where's the quest where I have to hide in a bush and lay a trap for the leader of the Balmorra resistance to come out then use my Snipe and take him out quietly? The quests are literally: WE(not you you) gathered all of the intelligence. WE(not you) found out this persons weakness. WE(not you) found this person. You job is to click on the highlighted blue thing and blow throw 15-35 enemies. I don't feel like an Intelligence Agent. I feel like a balls to the wall mercenary for hire.
    Fair enough, but remember, your characters role in the Imperial Intelligence organization is not intelligence gathering, not directly anyway. Your role is more of an enforcer/ closer. The heavy intelligence lifting is already done by the time you get brought into the situation, you're just sent in to finish the job. You'll gather SOME information along the way, but your main purpose is infiltration, sabotage, assassinations, etc... on targets that have already been chosen by those in your command structure. You're a highly skilled and lethal grunt, not a decision maker.

    Also, as dumb as this sounds, for the sake of the story you're not a sniper, you're just an Imperial Agent. As others have said, there are no missions (in any class story) where you have to use your specific class skills to get the job done. Since they tie the class stories to the base class they couldn't do that since the two advanced classes don't have the same abilities.
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are Stupid

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    I already exclaimed what is boring to me. I would rather DO Sniper only things then hear about it during a conversation. The quests are almost all the same like I pointed out. Where's the quest where I have to hide in a bush and lay a trap for the leader of the Balmorra resistance to come out then use my Snipe and take him out quietly? The quests are literally: WE(not you you) gathered all of the intelligence. WE(not you) found out this persons weakness. WE(not you) found this person. You job is to click on the highlighted blue thing and blow throw 15-35 enemies. I don't feel like an Intelligence Agent. I feel like a balls to the wall mercenary for hire.
    Think about the class stories in terms of the base class, not the advanced class. The advanced class theming has little to do with the story you'll play, that leans more on the base class - in this case Imperial Agent. So think of it less as your "sniper" story and more your "agent" story, but you just happen to be an agent that's a sniper too.

  10. #30
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    Yeah I get all of that. I just want some more diversity in the actual quests.

    For me, I found that I need to focus on the story quest line first before I do any side or heroic quests. Other wise all of the talking just gets lumped together in my mind just like it did in college listening to 3 different profs in the same day lol. And even then I had to turn on the subtitles. Nothing against the game, just something I discovered about myself.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    Yeah I get all of that. I just want some more diversity in the actual quests.

    For me, I found that I need to focus on the story quest line first before I do any side or heroic quests. Other wise all of the talking just gets lumped together in my mind just like it did in college listening to 3 different profs in the same day lol. And even then I had to turn on the subtitles. Nothing against the game, just something I discovered about myself.
    Well, side quests are entirely optional now. Even as a non-sub you can get to 50 pretty easily with the class/planetary quests alone (and maybe the odd flashpoint here or there). Same goes for heroic quests (which IIRC are pretty easy while leveling now since they did the big 4.0 companion update that made them super strong).

    It's pretty easy to keep up with just the class/planetary quests, especially since each planetary storyline is self-contained. And yes, subtitles are a must IMO but that may just be me. I put them on in every game I play so I can always have the text there in case it's hard to understand someone or there's loud noises drowning out the dialogue.

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