Story and Lore Blizzard Livestream - A story going nowhere.

[Khuzog]

5 second recap:

Horde!
Horde?
Horde.
Zekhan.
Saurfang?
Horde…
Saurfang!
Horde?!
Mekkatorque T-shirt.

Bonus points:
We're excited to show you the consequence of player choice in quests!

Er. Unless you only play Alliance. In which case the only player choice relevant here is you didn't roll Horde.

[Rozz]

Welcome to wow lore, where the Horde story is rehashed BS and the Alliance story is just Jaina's autobiography.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Just like Alleria and Turalyon changed the world of Azeroth—Wait when did that happen?

[Aucald]

The news article thread is the place to go if you want to talk about the Livestream as a stream - this really isn't the place to complain about the quality of the stream or the presenters in it.

[Archibalde]

What annoys me is that the story itself just doesn't follow any logic.

In the next patch, when Anduin finds out that N'zoth is awakening he says that the Horde and the Alliance were "so close to peace" and that Sylvanas will ruin all of that if she manages to get her hands on Xal'atath. Like... seriously? Close to peace, after the Horde burnt down Teldrassil and the Alliance killed Rastakhan? Tyrande became an avatar of vengeance purely to kill the Horde. She does not want peace and neither does Talanji.

That's not just Anduin being naive, that's actual bad writing.

[Flutterguy]

At least they confirmed that the expansion was designed to develop the Horde story fairly exclusively.

[Archibalde]

At least they confirmed that the expansion was designed to develop the Horde story fairly exclusively.

You say develop, but they have done nothing but ruin it so far. The Alliance gets all the victories, the Horde gets splintered more and more. They keep telling us to hang on and "wait for the big reveal", while they keep making things worse. It's honestly not fun to play at all. What's the point of doing the war campaign when we already know we're going to lose?

[Thetruth1400]

This story will either be Garrosh 2.0 or Kerrigan 2.0, i.e. Don't expect any creativity whatsoever. At this point, N'zoth is the only one who can save this mess of an expansion. Blizzard needs to understand that 90% of the players want to learn more about the elusive Old God and don't care about yet another faction war.

This. The players are smart enough to see that no one can win this war, so in the end it's pretty much pointless. They've also straight up said that we're not killing Sylvanas this expansion which means another Garrosh "Don't you misbehave now or else!" resolution or a Grommash, "But I didn't know, so you can't hold me responsible!" like in WoD ending, both of which are pathetic writing. If the war ends and the biggest war monger (both in the opinion of the Alliance and many leaders of her own faction) isn't held responsible, you can pretty much kiss any hope for quality writing goodbye.

Alliance are getting a hollow victory in killing off a King that's only purpose in existing was as a story telling method for his daughter and the Horde are killing off an Alliance leader that has done next to nothing in the entirety of WoW.

Going forward, we see absolutely nothing on the horizon and we know the next patch isn't even going to be about the faction war, but about Azshara and Mecha Gnomes, again by Blizzard's own words, "Goblins and Gnomes venture together to explore this zone full of machinery.", the key word there being together.

After that, we know the stories will continue, but as of now, only if you're Horde.
- There will be a lot more interaction between Talanji and Bwonsamdi going forward.
- The team wanted to let the player have some agency in the direction of the Horde and not just watching it develop.
- The Saurfang quest is not necessarily fundamentally changing the questing system of the game, but it was a moment to add meaningful choices to the story.

In other words, "Alliance sit there and enjoy the story we write you, we've got interesting story with choices, character development and progression for the Horde we need to focus on."

[Flutterguy]

You say develop, but they have done nothing but ruin it so far. The Alliance gets all the victories, the Horde gets splintered more and more. They keep telling us to hang on and "wait for the big reveal", while they keep making things worse. It's honestly not fun to play at all. What's the point of doing the war campaign when we already know we're going to lose?

What they perceive as developing anyway.

[Kwento]

I do wonder just what they think a “deep and meaningful” ending to the faction war is.
I mean, they cannot be stupid enough to expect players to be ok with a rehashed story. Nor can they truly allow one side to win. So... What are we left with?
I like to pretend that there is a chance where both factions use up so much people in this war, that when the Old God emerges they won’t have anyone to actually send to deal with it, resulting in both sides loosing.

[Arrashi]

The news article thread is the place to go if you want to talk about the Livestream as a stream - this really isn't the place to complain about the quality of the stream or the presenters in it.

I think the issue is that there wasn't anything in this stream that you could complain in lore section.

[Aucald]

I think the issue is that there wasn't anything in this stream that you could complain in lore section.

Anything from the state of the lore in BfA, Steve Danuser's role in it, or Terran Gregory's role in it. Just complaining about the quality of the stream, however, isn't at all relevant to this subforum.

[Combatbutler]

Anything from the state of the lore in BfA, Steve Danuser's role in it, or Terran Gregory's role in it. Just complaining about the quality of the stream, however, isn't at all relevant to this subforum.

Then please merge the threads, because honestly there wasn't enough stuff said in the stream, that would warrant one here.

[Orby]

I generally thought it was pretty good, they sounded passionate about what they love doing so you can tell they are into it. Nothing new was really told but you got a sense of what the process is like and I dig that stuff. Suppose if you were going in there expecting story leaks then I guess you would be disappointed.

[Broken Fox]

- The team wanted to let the player have some agency in the direction of the Horde and not just watching it develop.

- Choices will be used when it makes sense to create a more invested story.

- The payoff for your choices will be meaningful.

Really now

[Jastall]

OOhhh, "the payoff for your choices will be meaningful", that's a good one.

Apologies Blizzard, and it may be because I've played too many single-player RPGs, but to me a meaningful choice in a kingmaker scenario is one where the person I choose rules and the one I don't is killed, exiled, or otherwise suffers some horrible fate because vae victis motherfuckers. And I dunno why, but something tells me that this is a level of meaningfulness you can't provide even if you wanted/had the skill to provide, and that stream did not reinforce my faith in either to say the least.

Otherwise, a choice without such a payoff is just as "meaningful" as a vote in a Facebook poll as to which character the player likes more.

To say nothing of the fact that even as a Horde player, the near-total absence of the Alliance from the stream was not encouraging. Player choice, but only for the right faction it seems.

[Grosbill]

OOhhh, "the payoff for your choices will be meaningful", that's a good one.

Apologies Blizzard, and it may be because I've played too many single-player RPGs, but to me a meaningful choice in a kingmaker scenario is one where the person I choose rules and the one I don't is killed, exiled, or otherwise suffers some horrible fate because vae victis motherfuckers. And I dunno why, but something tells me that this is a level of meaningfulness you can't provide even if you wanted/had the skill to provide, and that stream did not reinforce my faith in either to say the least.

Otherwise, a choice without such a payoff is just as "meaningful" as a vote in a Facebook poll as to which character the player likes more.

To say nothing of the fact that even as a Horde player, the near-total absence of the Alliance from the stream was not encouraging. Player choice, but only for the right faction it seems.

It's not like the Alliance is in any kind of turmoil justifying a "player choice". The current player agency in BfA as a Horde player is to either betray our warchief and side with a traitor (with a toy as a reward) or tell Zekkhan to take a hike and get azerite instead.

In 8.1.5 it will be to snitch on BetaBaine or to (once again) side with a traitor. Do Alliance players want that kind of agency? When so far in this expansion everything is a victory for the aliance short of Teldrassil?

[etheldald]

In 8.1.5 it will be to snitch on BetaBaine or to (once again) side with a traitor. Do Alliance players want that kind of agency? When so far in this expansion everything is a victory for the aliance short of Teldrassil?

what we want is that they let us join tyrande, in unmerciful vengeance over anduin who is trying to forgive and heal the horde.

you know, this xpac could have been great if it was a morally gray conflict and minus a damn unprovoked genocide.
now is too late, it all went downhill since warbringuers sylvanas, i have no idea what the hell was blizzard thinking.

[Magnagarde]

what we want is that they let us join tyrande, in unmerciful vengeance over anduin who is trying to forgive and heal the horde.

Joining Tyrande, the Hearthstone priestess of emo eye-inking that requires the Alliance hero's help to get anywhere in a completely meaningless shore that oversees a charcoal tree, would be a lot worse in my opinion.

Anduin got into war at Lordaeron, Stromgarde and Dazar'alor to stop the enemy. If you leave aside the stereotype that he's a Golden-haired (intentionally capitalized btw) prince that is the perfect male for his writer, the Alliance has shown more in these two patches under his command than the night elves have under Tyrande for the past 14 years. I mean, sure, all of what he attempted at the aforementioned places didn't pan out as he planned, but at least he can pick a location to fight over.

[Combatbutler]

Joining Tyrande the Hearthstone priestes of eye-inking that requires the Alliance hero's help to get anywhere.

Meanwhile Anduin got into war at Lordaeron, Stromgarde and Dazar'alor to stop the enemy. If you leave aside the stereotype that he's a Golden-haired (intentionally capitalized btw) prince that is the perfect male for his writer, the Alliance has shown more in these two patches under his command than the night elves have under Tyrande for the past 14 years.

Yeah he went there so well prepared his entire army would have been utterly vaporized, if Jaina hadn't come by, I mean come on lets attack the forsaken capital, oh my Sylvanas uses the blight who could have thought this might happen.... oh well. She would sacrifice her own troops, utterly unthinkable, it is not like I have seen her literally seen her killing some of her own subjects just a weeks prior.

This whole narrative is a joke and so far every major character gets displayed as incredibly stupid.