pvp nerf mindset

[sephro22]

just got on and saw that ele is getting nerfed on earth shock damage stormbringer damage and surge of power proc numbers. Now im no pro but doesnt the combination of these nerfs exponentially lower our damage a lot? so earth shock will do less damage and our stormbringer will hit for less for a lower number of times. Do ya think this is reasonable or was it a bit too much?
P.S. im not trying to be all "the sky is falling" just trying to understand the thought process of tuning down a class by nerfing so many things at once and possibly overnerfing

[carlos9949]

elemental shaman are OP at pvp right now, the nerf is to bring them down to earth with the rest of the classes.

[ornichi]

shamans are not allowed to be op, this spot is reserved for rogues

[Razaron]

Like I said in another post, expect elemental nerfs in pvp if shaman are too strong. Only the staple classes can be op, this is known.

[Kaver]

People crying about nerfs never gets old

“Oh god, Blizzard why must you balance the game? Can’t you just allow us to be OP and have fun!”

#PeopleWhoLikeCheatCodes

[PaladinBash]

Shamans, like Ret and Notresto Druids, are not allowed to be OP. They're not even allowed to be strong, good or easy to win with. Yeah sure, exceptionally good players manage to do well because they are amazing but your average shaman is never allowed to shit on average or even bad mages, rogues or warriors. God help you if you can actually kill healers yourself. That's an absolutely forbidden fruit for even those classes.

[Trickstah]

They destroying elemental again so it will be unplayable. While you have rmp one shooting every they wants. And now double melee setups starting to Facroll like bots

[Cempa]

The nurf will not stop .. Something about ele that makes blizz ever since vanilla kill the spec for random players -as in BG's and wPvP. Ele has had more than one season where they did excellent in 3v3 though no one actually plays 3v3 -as in a small % of players.

So why would any one play a spec that only works when you have a healer and a DPS with you?

Gladiator level players will always play the comp that is Glad viable regardless of class and spec .. The other 9x% of us play what we enjoy SO please separate 3v3 and rated from the rest of the game!

[Kralljin]

Gladiator level players will always play the comp that is Glad viable regardless of class and spec .. The other 9x% of us play what we enjoy SO please separate 3v3 and rated from the rest of the game![/B]

Ele is still more than fine even in in Random bg's.

Like seriously, in random bg's i can just sit in Ghost wolf, run away and anything barring BM Hunters and Assa rogue are unable to kill me.
Lightning Lasso still deletes 40% of the enemies health and Stormkeeper still bursts people down.

If you still struggle to survive in World PvP then:
1.Your Gear sucks to the point where even despite scaling there is a massive power gap.
2.Multiple people gang up on you.
3.You're not running proper PvP Talents / PvP Gear.

Unless you're running up against really good players or hardcounter classes (such as Rogue) with really good gear, you are more than suited to survive in your standard world pvp situation.

[Deleted]

The nerfs are not really that severe, they are mainly to stop the one shot potential of the combo Stormkeeper>ES>LB>ES>LB>Lasso.

The SK nerf is actually a 8% damage nerf and the reduction of max procs to 2 from SOP is not that bad, it was rare to get 3 procs anyways the majority of the time you were getting 1-2 regardless.

The ES nerf tho is a bit annoying, as the real culprit of big earth shocks is the azerite trait lava shock, as ppl are stacking 3 of them, so if you dont have these traits you are kinda double punished on the ES front, which has a knock on effect of making azerite gear even more annoying (as if it wasnt annoying enough).

Besides it hardly hurts the burst potential that much considering lasso and damage coming from your team mates, this just stops ele being able to gib someone with lucky back to back crits, which is extremely fun, but not really fair as there is not much counter play to that.

I'm more concerned that Unholy Dk's recieved zero changes, they are broken as fuck atm.

[Cempa]

Ele is still more than fine even in in Random bg's.

Like seriously, in random bg's i can just sit in Ghost wolf, run away and anything barring BM Hunters and Assa rogue are unable to kill me.
Lightning Lasso still deletes 40% of the enemies health and Stormkeeper still bursts people down.

If you still struggle to survive in World PvP then:
1.Your Gear sucks to the point where even despite scaling there is a massive power gap.
2.Multiple people gang up on you.
3.You're not running proper PvP Talents / PvP Gear.

Unless you're running up against really good players or hardcounter classes (such as Rogue) with really good gear, you are more than suited to survive in your standard world pvp situation.

Outgear players is a great strategy .. Now why did I not think of that ..

Pretty much everyone I face is 37x and before the nurfs it was a battle of skill/positioning and timing .. Needing to build my burst is slow compared to UH/DH/Assa/Fire Mage/ect... They can burst out of the gate .. AFTER the damage nurf my feeling is the spec has been relegeted to do exactly what you said:

HIDE IN THE BACK!

[Kralljin]

Outgear players is a great strategy .. Now why did I not think of that ..

Those aren't meant to be tactical advices, which is rather obvious in the case 1. and 2., they are explanations why you (might) struggle in World PvP.

Pretty much everyone I face is 37x and before the nurfs it was a battle of skill/positioning and timing .. Needing to build my burst is slow compared to UH/DH/Assa/Fire Mage/ect

First off, you don't need to "build" your burst in a 1v1 situation unless you want to global someone, which is unlikely and uncessassary, or you run Surge of power, but then you play with the wrong talent for World PvP.

Second, very often, Ghostwolf and its related talents counteract a shit ton of damage, the only class / specs that consistently put serious pressure on me are Assa Rogues and BM hunters, the rest struggles to counter dps the healing or cannot keep up with someone that moves at 110% at worst and at 168% at best.

I wouldn't play Spectral Recovery and Spirit wolf in rated PvP, but in World and random PvP, they are so amazingly strong because they provide so much selfhealing and defensive value.

[zire]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnRqpQLCrKk

takes months for a buff/"fix" but only few weeks for several nerfs. well thought bliz... you know how to make/keep your player base happy.
at this point they could have atleast "shifted" some dmg around to compensate : buff the freaking lavaburst which hit for nothing, for less burst, but more meatballs...

[Volitar]

Not surprised that Blizzard continues to shit on this spec for the 15th year in a row.

[Trickstah]

I completely agree on this. I payed BFA to play elemental shaman - you basically destroyed this spec and made me wait several months before I could play the class I most love and enjoy? Then it took you 10 days to make the first nerf then next week another week and now this nerf.

You basically making us unplayable and right no we have to rely on that burst, while melee cleaves presses 123 and
Score kills or Rmp with one shooting fire mage or assa rogues glued to target

[Deleted]

I wouldn't play Spectral Recovery and Spirit wolf in rated PvP, but in World and random PvP, they are so amazingly strong because they provide so much selfhealing and defensive value.

I actually find them way better than ES for rated for the very same reasons you stated in world pvp. They have the effect of basically making you a horrible kill target agaisnt cleave teams (which there are a lot of on ladder) since you can kite them with GW and have DR up when you get stunned and since i'm green jesus those dont last as long then.

It works especially well with a resto druid since you also have hots ticking on you, plus the extra speed makes it very nice for LOS casters. Currently i'm playing ele/frostmage/druid and team just plain ignore me 24/7 as i'm waaay to tanky to ever consider being a viable kill target, all because of SW and Spec Recov as well as them being snared all the time from the mage, who they can't leave alone anyways as he will just control them out the game.

If i play Earth Shield melee train me and i die in a stun with the druid in cc eventually.

[Kralljin]

I actually find them way better than ES for rated for the very same reasons you stated in world pvp. They have the effect of basically making you a horrible kill target agaisnt cleave teams (which there are a lot of on ladder) since you can kite them with GW and have DR up when you get stunned and since i'm green jesus those dont last as long then.

In my opinion, i found Spectral Recovery simply not that worth in Rated PvP.

First off, if you play against an enemy that has dispel, it loses value, in particular RMP, if they smokebomb you (which is one of their big kill windows) the priest will most certainly dispel your ass until there's nothing left.

Futhermore, by sitting in GW you're just doing nothing, then the enemy pressures you, you're still doing nothing because you're in GW, the selfhealing is not that good to counter two people blowing their CD's on you, you're then kinda stuck in this "i can't pressure because i'll die; i'll to have to pressure them in order to stop their pressure" loop.

Also, kiting in Arena is much more difficult because you just can't run into a single direction for a long time, your healer might struggle to stay in your range, running circles in arena is not a terribly effective kiting strat.

Lastly, there are better PvP talents, i'm running Lasso / Skyfury / Grounding in most rated PvP activities, both Lasso and Skyfury are no brainers, Grounding is so utterly strong against any comp that has any sort of groundable casts.

[Monne]

Playing Arena right now and I feel the problem within Lasso is that it's great in World PvP and 2s and loses alot of values in 3s. I just hope they make Lightning Bolt more of a Maelstrom Generator and Lava Burst a better damage dealer. Relying on a Cooldown that announces your burst and is greatly affected by RNG (Overloads) isn't gameplay i'm a fan of.

Legion S7 was nice at the end being Elemental since your mobile damage was good and you could then setup your kills by kiting well and creating a gap between you and your opponents. I don't mind decreasing our burst if we get somewhat of a sustain back.

[MrCool]

Don't worry, more are coming

[Kralljin]

Playing Arena right now and I feel the problem within Lasso is that it's great in World PvP and 2s and loses alot of values in 3s.

It requires more setup in order to be effective, if you just use it on cd on your focus target, then that's not very effective, the damage from Lasso not that huge, the healer will just heal it up.

Also obviously interrupts and DR need to taken into account.

What makes Lasso so damn strong are switches on the healer, if you have like MW Monk or Hpally coming forward to CC, quick switch with Lasso and you'll see Trinket,Coccoon / Bubble or them just dying.