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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralissimoGreymane View Post
    Clearly we need more guns!

    And more guns topics on our favorite gaming forums. Quick, someone recommend a gun for me!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    Are these resisters actually contributing to our country and paying their taxes? Or are they freeloading?

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    I reject the entire premise of this thread, except for one part of it.

    Some folks in this need to, to put it bluntly, man the fuck up. Seriously. America, right now, is in the most dynamic period of living democracy I've seen in this country in my life time. Trump, as terrible as he is, has motivated people to political activity to a degree that was unimaginable a few years ago. We just had a midterm election... a midterm!... with the highest turnout in 90 years... almost to the degree of a big Presidential election. The Presidential election in 2020 is projected to shatter the record voter numbers going back decades. This is not just on one side, this is on both sides.

    This is such a good thing, it's not funny. This is people owning their country and owning their democracy and caring deeply about the future of the country. When, in years past, we lamented how uninvolved people were... only seeming to care about money and entertainment, and we wished for them to give more a of a shit... well, this is what giving a shit looks like.

    Some folks are having a hard time dealing with how fratucous the discourse is. While there is many things lamentable about specific aspects of the national debate - twitter, hackish talking heads on cable news, and Fox News-style "journalism" certainly are extremely harmful - the precept that people passionately disagree with each other is somehow a negative, is absurd, and frankly, un-American.

    In a free country, people of good conscience disagree and disagree passionately, and then in our republican system of government, they elect people to deliberate over those disagreements and form laws and policy.

    Some folks in this thread (and elsewhere) seem to lament we're not all on the same page. Horseshit. That's Chinese "harmonious society" bullshit. People should disagree and fight for what they believe to be right, as loudly and as energetically as possible. Through the crucible that is the public debate and our deliberative process, does that get turned into policy and laws.

    Can't handle that? Too stressful for you? Want some kind of easy consensus and everybody to be pals? Grow some thicker skin. Democracy is not for the faint at heart.
    While I really can't argue with the notion that a healthy democracy must come with a rather heated political discourse, I do believe the US as a nation still need some shit sorted (like any nation, mind, I'm hardly singling you Yanks out).

    Your heated political discourse is over differences that seem kind of trivial from an external perspective. Until Trump started to promote racism and assorted stupid ideas which has thankfully caused a national rejection in general, the difference between Democrats and Republicans, well, it's rather minuscule compared to the difference between parties in almost any other democracy. You have a center-right party up against a resolutely right-wing party. Canada and (to use a broadly similar country) the UK have a right-wing, centrist, and left-wing party as the top 3. Don't get me started about places like France whose major parties run the entire gamut from extreme right to extreme left. In these places, heated discourse makes sense, as fundamentally opposed ideals clash routinely. And hell, I'd say that the discourse here in Canada could stand to be slightly less consensual, but I digress.

    In the US? Really the only difference between both mainstreams is over details, from the looks of it. As you said yourself before, the vast majority of the federal budget is consensual between the two parties. To put it mildly, this is straight up never going to happen in many democracies. Trump's nonsense excepted, Americans usually seem to argue about funding some program over another, but rarely do more radical reforms ever pass Go. Nobody but relative fringes argues about fundamental societal changes, it's really a lot of talk about where the 5-ish% of the budget that isn't consensual goes. Obamacare/the ACA seems a good example of this to me, the nation tore itself apart over... making a private health care system slightly less private. In a good number of democracies, you'd have at least one mainstream party trying to tear that shit down and institute public healthcare, full-stop, which is politically unthinkable in America.

    Now there are a lot, lot more differences on a State to State basis, which to me is one of the US's political strengths. But on the national and federal level, a lot of your discourse seems dominated by two voices hammering on each other about a few differences while quietly working together without any fuss on every other subject. This is of course not encouraged by the IMO insane lobbying and money poured in American politics which makes it look like a spectator sport more than a discourse sometimes.

    Really, I think taking a long, very hard look at your political parties and infrastructure will be essential in the medium-long term. I doubt all of America will be able to identify itself with a two-party structure throwing the same old arguments at each other without concrete and fundamental differences to show for it besides opinions on gun control, healthcare and abortion. Donald Trump was, I believe, the first crack in that edifice, and I doubt he will be the last nor the most severe.

    Oh, and jesus fuck make your elective districts be drawn by independent organisms rather than elected officials. The gerrymandering in some of your districts give me migraines and I would be beyond outraged at the abusive attack on democracy that some represent. And sorry if some of my sentences appear weird or out of turn, I'm not a native English speaker.

  3. #83
    What do you mean "back to"?

    I mean the obvious agitator is the extremists currently in power. Removing those would be a start. But honestly it will only get worse unless you look at serious constitutional reform. And jail time for these assholes.

    Quote Originally Posted by LonerStoner View Post
    Constitutional carry in all 50 states. It would be violent for a couple years but once the prolonged purge is over with things will be pretty nice.
    Every state in the US has at least concealed carry if not open.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    What do you mean "back to"?

    I mean the obvious agitator is the extremists currently in power. Removing those would be a start. But honestly it will only get worse unless you look at serious constitutional reform. And jail time for these assholes.
    This sounds a lot like China and North Korea... and you wonder why I do not trust the state, when it has people like you in it, to take the reigns of what someone is, or is not allowed to learn.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    This sounds a lot like China and North Korea... and you wonder why I do not trust the state, when it has people like you in it, to take the reigns of what someone is, or is not allowed to learn.
    Yeah, because according to you, we need to learn that the Holocaust was justified.

    While people are busy about being authoritarian over not being authoritarian, you are being authoritarian about not enough authoritarianism. Interesting.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  6. #86
    The Undying Hubcap's Avatar
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    What's wrong with being insane?

    Are we making value judgments here?

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    What's wrong with being insane?

    Are we making value judgments here?
    One... it’s a prerequisite to starting a clown posse... two... the definition makes it sound, kinda bad: in a state of mind which prevents normal perception, behavior, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill.
    Entropy won't yield to you.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    This sounds a lot like China and North Korea... and you wonder why I do not trust the state, when it has people like you in it, to take the reigns of what someone is, or is not allowed to learn.
    Constitutional reform to make it harder to get away with corruption and jail time for corrupt politicians who abuse their power?

    That is the exact OPPOSITE of China and North Korea. Why are you being so disingenuous?

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Constitutional reform to make it harder to get away with corruption and jail time for corrupt politicians who abuse their power?

    That is the exact OPPOSITE of China and North Korea. Why are you being so disingenuous?
    For corrupt politicians in general? Ok, I can support that.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    For corrupt politicians in general? Ok, I can support that.
    Of course.

    Though you realise this will impact one party more than the other. I wouldn't want to be proposing equality of outcome here lol.


  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Of course.

    Though you realise this will impact one party more than the other. I wouldn't want to be proposing equality of outcome here lol.

    Don’t really care which party it would affect more. If you take money for votes ( or the like ) you should be sent to prison for selling out the people that voted you in, and put trust in you.

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