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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    The Alliance did walk out with Horde thematic weapons and an iconic racial mount. So technically, they did plunder Orgrimmar.

    You can still sack a city without having the need to plunder it by the way.

    Also they did conquer Orgrimmar. They literally get a title for it. You are questioning on how long they took hold over Orgrimmar. Which is not the same. The answer is they DID conquer Orgrimmar, but decided to give it to the rebellion as a means of negotiations after they took hold of it.
    Can you give any examples? Why would a rival who supposed has control over your city just leave, not take anything, not disarm you, not destroy anything...

    In WW2 after the Allies won, the split Berlin up and then sectioned it off. They kept troops there and took money as reparations. The US did the same thing to Japan. Japan was ordered to do away with their military.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Siege_of_Orgrimmar
    Fed up with Garrosh's tyranny, Vol'jin set about uniting the dissenting leaders of the Horde under the Darkspear Rebellion. The Alliance, who had also suffered from Garrosh's warmongering, also wished to depose the mad warchief. The Alliance contacted Vol'jin and helped his uprising in the Barrens. In exchange, the Horde rebels would try to secure Bladefist Bay for them when their fleet came
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Darkspear_Rebellion
    Members of the Alliance are also instructed to lend aid to the burgeoning rebellion, to ensure Garrosh's forces (themselves anticipating and preparing for an Alliance invasion) do not gain a momentum over the outnumbered trolls. SI:7 tasks the player character to speak on behalf of the Alliance and to represent its interests to Vol'jin, whose trust the player earns at the culmination of the quest chain.
    And here is information on the actual sacking of a city:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria...ity_is_sacked/

    In WC1 Stormwind was sacked. It was burned. Treasure and food taken. SoO was the Alliance joining together with the Horde to defeat the Sha powered mega racist Garrosh and his followers.... want to know a real sacking? Teldrassil/Darnassus. It was burned, plundered, inhabitants were driven out, and civilians killed.


    Now that THAT is over...

    I ask again, what do you expect to happen after SoO? Should the Horde and specifically Orcs become powerhouses? Should the Horde and the Orcs never take losses?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    you want a completely destroyed city in game, just to feed your ego? its not functional, they would rebuild, you already conquer it and sacked and the city was destroyed in lore, if you still don't like it you can bite your pillow



    except they do, and until you proof otherwise your comment matter an iota
    That literally happened to Teldrassil.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    Lol you just made my point for me for why attacks that leave no resulting damage are absolutely retarded.
    >game limitations
    >praticity

    it have a lot of retarded things due to gameplay, don't how this is horde bias

    Lol you realy cant tell I am pointing out your own hypocrisy?
    you lack the skills

    Lol, yeah sorry facts flew in the face of your imagination.
    "facts"

    Typical horde fan boy behavior when confronted about favortism.
    "hypocrisy"

    Have a nice day and welcome to my ignore list :P
    typical alliance behavior, its like turning off the war mode

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    That literally happened to Teldrassil.
    and to lordaeron

    1-1

    your point?

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    and to lordaeron

    1-1

    your point?
    The point is, that it CAN happen. So yeah, thats why Org was never sacked.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    That literally happened to Teldrassil.
    He didnt get conqueror of teldrassil title so it doesnt count.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    The point is, that it CAN happen.
    it can happen, it will not always happen

    look at the implications, the variables

    Teldrassil and lordaeron were not the faction capital, they destroyed both at the same time, and the night elves even had other places like hyjal

    you want to destroy the main city of the horde, no just a side city, but the capital of the faction, with no counterpart, with orcs having not left? B-u-l-l shit, so only there, only this way it could happen? no matter if the lore says so, if it was not fucked up ingame don't count? please

    So yeah, thats why Org was never sacked.
    no thats not why, i already proved you that it was sacked, don't bring more headcanon as a fact please

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    it can happen, it will not always happen

    look at the implications, the variables

    Teldrassil and lordaeron were not the faction capital, they destroyed both at the same time, and the night elves even had other places like hyjal

    you want to destroy the main city of the horde, no just a side city, but the capital of the faction, with no counterpart, with orcs having not left? B-u-l-l shit, so only there, only this way it could happen? no matter if the lore says so, if it was not fucked up ingame don't count? please



    no thats not why, i already proved you that it was sacked, don't bring more headcanon as a fact please
    Most of what you say is head canon.

    It factually wasn't a sacking. The Alliance helped the Horde rebels retake Org. The Horde PCs are on the side of the rebels. Logically, the Alliance did not conquer the Horde.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    He didnt get conqueror of teldrassil title so it doesnt count.
    It seems like it only counts when people want to whine.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Most of what you say is head canon.

    It factually wasn't a sacking. The Alliance helped the Horde rebels retake Org. The Horde PCs are on the side of the rebels. Logically, the Alliance did not conquer the Horde.
    To conquer something you need to hold it.
    But dont take my word for it.
    con·quer
    /ˈkäNGkər/Valider
    verb
    overcome and take control of (a place or people) by use of military force.
    A raid doesnt mean you conquered it. It means just that. You raided.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    It seems like it only counts when people want to whine.
    The thing is the Horde has lost so little over the years that these people simply do not understand. The had never had a city nuked beyond recognation.
    I think the Alliance has at least 2 towns, 1 mini-capital city, one capital city. And whatever happened in Gilneas that made them homeless forever.
    The only thing the Horde faction needs now is specific quests for rape and child murder to complete their narrative rather than imply it.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    To conquer something you need to hold it.
    But dont take my word for it.


    A raid doesnt mean you conquered it. It means just that. You raided.



    The thing is the Horde has lost so little over the years that these people simply do not understand. The had never had a city nuked beyond recognation.
    I think the Alliance has at least 2 towns, 1 mini-capital city, one capital city. And whatever happened in Gilneas that made them homeless forever.
    The only thing the Horde faction needs now is specific quests for rape and child murder to complete their narrative rather than imply it.
    We lost so little? We always had less population, lost our identity twice just because Blizzard felt like it, lost almost all our important characters except for some alliance loving pushovers, and have, minus Thrall, zero overall Protagonist representation in the common/neutral plot. You wanna switch? Alright, you can nuke Bilgewater and Highmountain, in return 70% of your characters die and the Horde becomes the new superpower of Azeroth. Deal?

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    We lost so little? We always had less population,
    Thats a loss? Seriously?

    lost our identity twice just because Blizzard felt like it,
    If anything you are going back to your roots. Genocide, child murder and rape are hallmarks of being part of the Horde canonically.

    lost almost all our important characters except for some alliance loving pushovers, and have, minus Thrall, zero overall Protagonist representation in the common/neutral plot.
    Thats not a loss. Its just the faction you picked. Its not our problem you dont care about non-Warcraft 3 characters.

    You wanna switch? Alright, you can nuke Bilgewater and Highmountain,
    Haha, he says he wants to switch but is still not ready to do a fair trade.
    No how about we blow up Silvermoon and kill every blood elf soul there canonically and get a whole campaign from Barrens to Thunderbluff? You can keep Orgrimmar. Being forced to stay in that terrible city is punishment enough.

    in return 70% of your characters die and the Horde becomes the new superpower of Azeroth. Deal?
    Loool. Nah. Lets go with the Garrosh/Sylvanas dilemma where we blame all of it on the faction leader.
    You guys can get a raid on SW, I would get some Human theme loot and replace my terrible Highking with someone else more likable.
    Last edited by Toho; 2019-01-16 at 05:36 PM.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    Thats a loss? Seriously?



    If anything you are going back to your roots. Genocide, child murder and rape are hallmarks of being part of the Horde canonically.



    Thats not a loss. Its just the faction you picked. Its not our problem you dont care about non-Warcraft 3 characters.



    Haha, he says he wants to switch but is still not ready to do a fair trade.
    No how about we blow up Silvermoon and kill every blood elf soul there canonically and get a whole campaign from Barrens to Thunderbluff? You can keep Orgrimmar. Being forced to stay in that terrible city is punishment enough.



    Loool. Nah. Lets go with the Garrosh/Sylvanas dilemma where we blame all of it on the faction leader.
    You guys can get a raid on SW, I would get some Human theme loot and replace my terrible Highking with someone else more likable.
    That is totally a fair trade self absorbed blue guy Bilgewater is a mirror for Theramore just like Undercity was a mirror for Darnassus plus the new Zuldazar raid. Give them some bread and they demand the whole bakery. Glad to know the Alliance com hasn't changed.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    That is totally a fair trade self absorbed blue guy Bilgewater is a mirror for Theramore just like Undercity was a mirror for Darnassus plus the new Zuldazar raid. Give them some bread and they demand the whole bakery. Glad to know the Alliance com hasn't changed.
    Theramore was an entire city with various named characters and a history since WC3 as it became the new home of Lordaeron citizens.
    Giving quests since vanilla and being a major transport hub.

    Bilgewater is a random harbor, with nothing in it besides empty houses.
    Funny how the idea of Silvermoon and its citizens being put the torch is a step too far for horde players!

    its alright when the Horde do it to the night elves. But god forbid anything bad happen to the precious horde eye candy.
    Last edited by Toho; 2019-01-16 at 06:04 PM.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    Theramore was an entire city with various named characters and a history since WC3 as it became the new home of Lordaeron citizens.
    Giving quests since vanilla and being a major transport hub.

    Bilgewater is a random harbor, with nothing in it besides empty houses.
    Funny how the idea of Silvermoon and its citizens being put the torch is a step too far for horde players!

    its alright when the Horde do it to the night elves. But god forbid anything bad happen to the precious horde eye candy.
    Newsflash. Blizzard doesn't touch big cities unless they can torch their mirror too. See Undercity/tirisfal(Plus Zuldazar) and Teldrassil. And Theramore was never a big nor a capital city. Just a harbor city and RP Hub. Just like Bilgewater. Know waht the mirror for Silvermoon is? Exodar and the Draenei Isles.
    Last edited by Grazrug; 2019-01-16 at 06:11 PM.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    Loool. Nah. Lets go with the Garrosh/Sylvanas dilemma where we blame all of it on the faction leader.
    You guys can get a raid on SW, I would get some Human theme loot and replace my terrible Highking with someone else more likable.
    Even when you blame it all on the faction leader, other characters die too.

    Thats not a loss. Its just the faction you picked. Its not our problem you dont care about non-Warcraft 3 characters.
    Nazgrim was never in Warcraft 3. The thing is, Blizzard hasn't built up new characters sufficiently to replace those lost.

    See, the Alliance still has Danath, Turalyon, Alleria, Khadgar, Kurdran, and so on. Hell, even Arator is still alive to be a legacy character if he's ever promoted. The Alliance has a healthy cast with a full set of faction leaders, who are appropriately replaced with characters built up for that purpose much of the time. There's so many that there's hardly room to give them all screen time.

    Sure, Draenei would be screwed if they lost Velen at their current stage of development, but Night Elves have plenty of characters laying around. Plenty of A tier characters, even, ones who warranted unique models. Who are the stars of novels dedicated to them and came from Warcraft 3.

    Likewise, the Humans have some nice A and B tier characters, and plenty of C tier as well. Some from Warcraft 2, 3, or who were built up over the course of WoW with literally having the most models of any character to depict growth from boy, teen, to young man. With novels dedicated to them as main characters.

    As for Dwarves? I don't recall a single notable Dwarven character ever dying, even if they're all B-listers. Gnomes are pretty fucked, though. For Worgen, Genn has been firmly established as a solid B character, but the rest are pretty C-class.

    So, let's consider the Horde. Not a single legacy character from Warcraft 2 remains, nor do their children. None were redeemed as was hoped. Jorin Deadeye is D-tier at best, and he's the closest we've got to that.

    So, let's look at the Orcs, the "Face" of the Horde. They have a decommissioned A-lister, Thrall, and two prominent B characters, Saurfang and Eitrigg, though Saurfang is probably B+ by now. Drek'thar was in a wheelchair last we saw him, but he'd qualify too. Notice a pattern here? There are no young Orcs. Only Orcs about to kick the bucket any day now. Thrall is literally the only prominent green Orc whose hair isn't grey. Orcs have not had their cast restocked, so it's understandable that Orc fans are scared they'll lose what little they have left.

    Oh, and what about Trolls? Vol'jin was basically B+. He got a bit of a boost towards the end, but got killed off. The rest is C or D tier. Rokhan was in Warcraft 3, but barely had any lines. I guess he's B tier now.

    Tauren have Baine, who I'd still list as B+ at best. The rest are C or D.

    Forsaken have Sylvanas, A, Nathanos, B, and a few Cs. Blood Elves have a few Bs.

    As such, the Horde's experience is that they don't have characters to spare. None of their races are like Humans or Night Elves, or even Dwarves.

    The Horde doesn't like losing characters because the Horde doesn't have any to spare. Orcs are literally all senile old men on their deathbeds by now.

  14. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    Newsflash. Blizzard doesn't touch big cities unless they can torch their mirror too. See Undercity/tirisfal(Plus Zuldazar) and Teldrassil. And Theramore was never a big nor a capital city. Just a harbor city and RP Hub. Just like Bilgewater. Know waht the mirror for Silvermoon is? Exodar and the Draenei Isles.
    rofl. Yeah. sure.
    So the Alliance wipes out anyone inside Silvermoon and reduces it to ash.
    And Horde come for Exodar... but Velen forsees everything. Grabs his people and artifacts. Gets on the vindicaar and as the Horde soldiers run inside Exodar Velen blows up Exodar as he yells "you have won nothiiiiiiiing" he flies away.

    Sounds good to you?

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by KrakHed View Post
    Even when you blame it all on the faction leader, other characters die too.

    Nazgrim was never in Warcraft 3. The thing is, Blizzard hasn't built up new characters sufficiently to replace those lost.

    See, the Alliance still has Danath, Turalyon, Alleria, Khadgar, Kurdran, and so on. Hell, even Arator is still alive to be a legacy character if he's ever promoted. The Alliance has a healthy cast with a full set of faction leaders, who are appropriately replaced with characters built up for that purpose much of the time. There's so many that there's hardly room to give them all screen time.

    Sure, Draenei would be screwed if they lost Velen at their current stage of development, but Night Elves have plenty of characters laying around. Plenty of A tier characters, even, ones who warranted unique models. Who are the stars of novels dedicated to them and came from Warcraft 3.

    Likewise, the Humans have some nice A and B tier characters, and plenty of C tier as well. Some from Warcraft 2, 3, or who were built up over the course of WoW with literally having the most models of any character to depict growth from boy, teen, to young man. With novels dedicated to them as main characters.

    As for Dwarves? I don't recall a single notable Dwarven character ever dying, even if they're all B-listers. Gnomes are pretty fucked, though. For Worgen, Genn has been firmly established as a solid B character, but the rest are pretty C-class.

    So, let's consider the Horde. Not a single legacy character from Warcraft 2 remains, nor do their children. None were redeemed as was hoped. Jorin Deadeye is D-tier at best, and he's the closest we've got to that.

    So, let's look at the Orcs, the "Face" of the Horde. They have a decommissioned A-lister, Thrall, and two prominent B characters, Saurfang and Eitrigg, though Saurfang is probably B+ by now. Drek'thar was in a wheelchair last we saw him, but he'd qualify too. Notice a pattern here? There are no young Orcs. Only Orcs about to kick the bucket any day now. Thrall is literally the only prominent green Orc whose hair isn't grey. Orcs have not had their cast restocked, so it's understandable that Orc fans are scared they'll lose what little they have left.

    Oh, and what about Trolls? Vol'jin was basically B+. He got a bit of a boost towards the end, but got killed off. The rest is C or D tier. Rokhan was in Warcraft 3, but barely had any lines. I guess he's B tier now.

    Tauren have Baine, who I'd still list as B+ at best. The rest are C or D.

    Forsaken have Sylvanas, A, Nathanos, B, and a few Cs. Blood Elves have a few Bs.

    As such, the Horde's experience is that they don't have characters to spare. None of their races are like Humans or Night Elves, or even Dwarves.

    The Horde doesn't like losing characters because the Horde doesn't have any to spare. Orcs are literally all senile old men on their deathbeds by now.
    This so much. I will avoid topics i the future because this is the perfect argument.

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrakHed View Post
    Even when you blame it all on the faction leader, other characters die too.

    Nazgrim was never in Warcraft 3. The thing is, Blizzard hasn't built up new characters sufficiently to replace those lost.
    Not saying it is not a problem.
    But it is not a loss either and it certainly isnt something the Alliance is reponsible for.
    Btw Nazgrim is one of the four horsemen now.

    And before you complain that he is neutral.
    Welcome to the Alliance perspective where every organization is now neutral.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Can you give any examples? Why would a rival who supposed has control over your city just leave, not take anything, not disarm you, not destroy anything...

    In WW2 after the Allies won, the split Berlin up and then sectioned it off. They kept troops there and took money as reparations. The US did the same thing to Japan. Japan was ordered to do away with their military.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Siege_of_Orgrimmar


    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Darkspear_Rebellion


    And here is information on the actual sacking of a city:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria...ity_is_sacked/

    In WC1 Stormwind was sacked. It was burned. Treasure and food taken. SoO was the Alliance joining together with the Horde to defeat the Sha powered mega racist Garrosh and his followers.... want to know a real sacking? Teldrassil/Darnassus. It was burned, plundered, inhabitants were driven out, and civilians killed.


    Now that THAT is over...

    I ask again, what do you expect to happen after SoO? Should the Horde and specifically Orcs become powerhouses? Should the Horde and the Orcs never take losses?

    - - - Updated - - -



    That literally happened to Teldrassil.
    Maybe if we go by ingame status and not compare it to IRL. Alliance conquered Orgrimmar. Horde rebels liberated it.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    Not saying it is not a problem.
    But it is not a loss either and it certainly isnt something the Alliance is reponsible for.
    Btw Nazgrim is one of the four horsemen now.

    And before you complain that he is neutral.
    Welcome to the Alliance perspective where every organization is now neutral.
    He's neutral, sure, but he was always just a B character and will be overshadowed by Bolvar and all the other Horsemen in Ebon Blade content. The themes he's bound to throw around are Ebon Blade themes. Scourge themes, Deathknight themes.

    Meanwhile, the Cenarion Circle and Argents wave their Night Elf and Human themes in your face like a flaccid penis. Sure, the Horde got a taste of this in the form of Thrall before, and we hated how he did nothing to clean up the messes he left behind. We all came out hating the incredibly irresponsible "Go'el". Neutrality sucks in characters. It's frustrating.

    Thing is, a living major character could potentially come back. Alleria and Turalyon being neutral for a bit didn't prevent them from rejoining the Alliance immediately. Neither did Malfurion's neutrality. It still sucks. Thrall is a depressed sadsack now though, and that sucks even more.

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrakHed View Post
    He's neutral, sure, but he was always just a B character and will be overshadowed by Bolvar and all the other Horsemen in Ebon Blade content. The themes he's bound to throw around are Ebon Blade themes. Scourge themes, Deathknight themes.

    Meanwhile, the Cenarion Circle and Argents wave their Night Elf and Human themes in your face like a flaccid penis. Sure, the Horde got a taste of this in the form of Thrall before, and we hated how he did nothing to clean up the messes he left behind. We all came out hating the incredibly irresponsible "Go'el". Neutrality sucks in characters. It's frustrating.

    Thing is, a living major character could potentially come back. Alleria and Turalyon being neutral for a bit didn't prevent them from rejoining the Alliance immediately. Neither did Malfurion's neutrality. It still sucks. Thrall is a depressed sadsack now though, and that sucks even more.
    Well what did you expect to happen by playing Horde?
    Are you actually mad organizations like.

    The Kirin Tor
    The Argent Crusade.
    The Cenarion Circle.
    Demon Hunters and Light Forged are all Alliance race themed?

    The Horde simply has weak characters and by god Blizzard had tried.
    First with Cataclysm with Green Jesus.
    Then with Garrosh going back to Orcish roots in both Cata and Mists
    And then going way more back to WoD with garrosh and Horde roots.

    We literally got introduced to all the old Horde villains and their heroes with short videos about their background too.
    Like what more do you want short of taking over these Alliance factions?

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    Well what did you expect to happen by playing Horde?
    Are you actually mad organizations like.

    The Kirin Tor
    The Argent Crusade.
    The Cenarion Circle.
    Demon Hunters and Light Forged are all Alliance race themed?

    The Horde simply has weak characters and by god Blizzard had tried.
    First with Cataclysm with Green Jesus.
    Then with Garrosh going back to Orcish roots in both Cata and Mists
    And then going way more back to WoD with garrosh and Horde roots.

    We literally got introduced to all the old Horde villains and their heroes with short videos about their background too.
    Like what more do you want short of taking over these Alliance factions?
    They didn't try. They slaughtered or deleted them. That's not trying thats a meat grinder. AU Durotan was the last nail in the coffin.

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