Remember what the Orcs gained from the Siege?

[Toho]

I get and am not offering argument in any direction regarding the orcs or the state of their honor at present.

I am simply curious: Slaughter, genocide (arguably just leveled-up slaughter), morals that do not match those of IRL humans, all true.

But where is everyone getting rape from? Keep seeing suggestions that the Horde returned to raping? I just started my playthrough on my Alliance alt for BFA; is there a particularly effed up quest chain incoming?

Alextrasza and Garona are perfect examples of canonical rape commited by the Horde.

[Syegfryed]

You're throwing all Orcs in the same bandwagon

the point is people will put then in the same bandwagon and will blame then for everything that happen in wod

for other orcs "fault" the orcs of the horde get their narrative destroyed, pushed away by their factions, tagged as racists warmongers ( even rapists by some lmao) and lot more, the stigma is already there and becoming worse.

[AcidicSyn]

Alextrasza and Garona are perfect examples of canonical rape commited by the Horde.

Yes but again. Everyone is talking about the Horde RETURNING to raping. Those are the original examples of Horde rape (Though Garona is arguably squarely on Gul'dan). In order for them to specifically "return" to raping, they would have had to have started raping again SINCE those events. Have they?

Now, if the argument was simply that the members of that original Horde (so Orcs or Orcs, Forest Trolls, Goblins, and Ogres) were never made to pay for those crimes that's another matter entirely. My confusion is specifically with the use of the word "return" and it's definition versus how it's being used.

[Toho]

Yes but again. Everyone is talking about the Horde RETURNING to raping. Those are the original examples of Horde rape (Though Garona is arguably squarely on Gul'dan). In order for them to specifically "return" to raping, they would have had to have started raping again SINCE those events. Have they?

Now, if the argument was simply that the members of that original Horde (so Orcs or Orcs, Forest Trolls, Goblins, and Ogres) were never made to pay for those crimes that's another matter entirely. My confusion is specifically with the use of the word "return" and it's definition versus how it's being used.

The Orcs and members of the Horde are returning to their old roots my friend which is what the old horde used to do.
Given what we know the old horde did we can extrapolate to what the new horde is doing.
Blizzard is limited to what they can show on the screen but they can leave clues unless they use a book to explicitly mention it or deny it.

During Tyrande's ascension questline you had this area where numerous Night Elf men and women were tied up.
Meanwhile Horde soldiers with the title of slaver were throwing spears at these helpless victims.
The Forsaken soldiers did not really care, they just wanted to blight everyone. But the Orcs and Trolls? Now that was an interesting scene.
So yeah. I completely believe the Horde is back to what they were doing before.
Blizzard is deliberatingly showing this is not just a Forsaken issue but a Horde issue.

I think it is pretty clear the Horde is back to raping people.
You may be thinking I am reading way too much into this but they are having sport with war prisoners. Why wouldnt they rape? They have done it before.
They clearly have no problem killing non-soldiers and playing with their prisoners.
I think rape is the least of a Horde prisoner worries.

[Makabreska]

The Orcs and members of the Horde are returning to their old roots my friend which is what the old horde used to do.
Given what we know the old horde did we can extrapolate to what the new horde is doing.
Blizzard is limited to what they can show on the screen but they can leave clues unless they use a book to explicitly mention it or deny it.

During Tyrande's ascension questline you had this area where numerous Night Elf men and women were tied up.
Meanwhile Horde soldiers with the title of slaver were throwing spears at these helpless victims.
The Forsaken soldiers did not really care, they just wanted to blight everyone. But the Orcs and Trolls? Now that was an interesting scene.
So yeah. I completely believe the Horde is back to what they were doing before.
Blizzard is deliberatingly showing this is not just a Forsaken issue but a Horde issue.

I think it is pretty clear the Horde is back to raping people.
You may be thinking I am reading way too much into this but they are having sport with war prisoners. Why wouldnt they rape? They have done it before.
They clearly have no problem killing non-soldiers and playing with their prisoners.
I think rape is the least of a Horde prisoner worries.

And this is really nothing new. We got moments like Brennadam since Beta. 0/10 Thrall would not Warchief it again.

[AcidicSyn]

The Orcs and members of the Horde are returning to their old roots my friend which is what the old horde used to do.
Given what we know the old horde did we can extrapolate to what the new horde is doing.
Blizzard is limited to what they can show on the screen but they can leave clues unless they use a book to explicitly mention it or deny it.

During Tyrande's ascension questline you had this area where numerous Night Elf men and women were tied up.
Meanwhile Horde soldiers with the title of slaver were throwing spears at these helpless victims.
The Forsaken soldiers did not really care, they just wanted to blight everyone. But the Orcs and Trolls? Now that was an interesting scene.
So yeah. I completely believe the Horde is back to what they were doing before.
Blizzard is deliberatingly showing this is not just a Forsaken issue but a Horde issue.

I think it is pretty clear the Horde is back to raping people.
You may be thinking I am reading way too much into this but they are having sport with war prisoners. Why wouldnt they rape? They have done it before.
They clearly have no problem killing non-soldiers and playing with their prisoners.
I think rape is the least of a Horde prisoner worries.

That's why I had asked if I had any particularly messed up quest chains coming up that suggested the Horde was returning to those actions initially; since nothing of the sort had taken place since the first Horde through now, it was confusing due to the sheer volume of people saying as much.

Judging by this and the example Makabreska just gave, looks like the answer to my initial question is: Yes.

Although in your particular example, it is a touch ironic that the Forsaken appear somehow less brutal than the others. (Killing everyone versus torturing/raping and THEN killing everyone). To me anyway.

EDIT: Oh and no, I don't think you're reading too much into that particular example. The title of "Slaver" carries implications with it with rape being pretty high on that list. Any number of titles could have been used in its place if they didn't want people to think rape was taking place.

[Toho]

EDIT: Oh and no, I don't think you're reading too much into that particular example. The title of "Slaver" carries implications with it with rape being pretty high on that list. Any number of titles could have been used in its place if they didn't want people to think rape was taking place.

Agreed. I think Blizzard is trying to tell a deep story that would be absolutely possible if this was a single player game (RPG or RTS) but they cant especially with the socially woke people. Can you imagine an explicit quest that asks the Horde player to find and capture/kill hiding civilians or stop fleeing boats?
Thats pretty hardcore.

There is a lot of details players could miss with environmental storytelling. Thankfully there are some artists out there that make these scenes more iconic and explicit in their representation. Its hard to find any sympathy for the Horde has faction when you view things like that.

[AcidicSyn]

Agreed. I think Blizzard is trying to tell a deep story that would be absolutely possible if this was a single player game (RPG or RTS) but they cant especially with the socially woke people. Can you imagine an explicit quest that asks the Horde player to find and capture/kill hiding civilians or stop fleeing boats?
Thats pretty hardcore.

There is a lot of details players could miss with environmental storytelling. Thankfully there are some artists out there that make these scenes more iconic and explicit in their representation. Its hard to find any sympathy for the Horde has faction when you view things like that.
~images snipped~]

First off: Holy crap where are you finding these images they are exceptional. I particularly like the last one with the adult and child. For some reason it feels like a call or echo of the mother and child from Sylvanas' warbringers clip. The blood elf at the fore in the first image is a great touch, just all around great looking pieces.

Secondly: Hahaha! No need to imagine, during the War of Thorns chain on Horde side, while we're not explicitly told to murder hiding civilians, we certainly had the option to do it at Astrannar, and we all recall the discussions surrounding that event.

It would be something interesting to see WoWs story told through a single player lens though, I get the feeling that the general impression of the storytelling would be much better than most perceive it is now.

[Toho]

First off: Holy crap where are you finding these images they are exceptional.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/War_of_the_Thorns
Here

[Mardux]

That's not what @Toho is saying. You can only use the excuse of "I was brainwashed" so many times until ppl stop taking you seriously.

Heck, no other race was given a brand new crack at redeeming themselves like the orcs were in WoD. And guess what. Chose felblood again in the end lol.

Meanwhile, we can use the "but... but.. Theramore /poutyface" excuse for the better part of 8 years and that's fine (ignoring that it was a military base being used to move our troops and supplies directly into horde territory)?

[Toho]

Meanwhile, we can use the "but... but.. Theramore /poutyface" excuse for the better part of 8 years and that's fine (ignoring that it was a military base being used to move our troops and supplies directly into horde territory)?

That "military" base was its own country under Jaina which was built at the same time Orgrimmar and the only reason it was supplying resources into Horde territory was because Garrosh started a war by attacking the Night Elves.

[Minikin]

Meanwhile, we can use the "but... but.. Theramore /poutyface" excuse for the better part of 8 years and that's fine (ignoring that it was a military base being used to move our troops and supplies directly into horde territory)?

What? How does theramore even have a relation in that context?

If you really wanna dive down that rabbit hole, care to explain what stonetalon peak was? Or did those druids send wild leprechauns or something to mulgore as part of their world conquest?

[KrakHed]

Well what did you expect to happen by playing Horde?
Are you actually mad organizations like.

The Kirin Tor
The Argent Crusade.
The Cenarion Circle.
Demon Hunters and Light Forged are all Alliance race themed?

The Horde simply has weak characters and by god Blizzard had tried.
First with Cataclysm with Green Jesus.
Then with Garrosh going back to Orcish roots in both Cata and Mists
And then going way more back to WoD with garrosh and Horde roots.

We literally got introduced to all the old Horde villains and their heroes with short videos about their background too.
Like what more do you want short of taking over these Alliance factions?

The development of more non-villainous Horde-related factions, obviously. Imagine if there was a nominally neutral but predominately Forsaken faction who everyone would quest for.

When it comes down to it, WoD was a laughingstock. They literally cut out the bulk of the Orcish story because they felt they had overdone Orcs, which of course was just one further disaster for their Orc expansion. And the whole thing? You slaughter those Orcish heroes, those "Warlords" they wanted to build up as cool characters, and absolutely no one is going to remember or care about them. They were fucking lame.

What Night Elf fan would enjoy an expansion where you go back in time to murder all the Night Elves?

[Zandalariprelate]

The orcs got rid of green jesus, that has to count for something right?

[KrakHed]

The orcs got rid of green jesus, that has to count for something right?

We liked Green Jesus before he was Green Jesus. We don't want to get rid of him so much as we want him to grow his fucking hair back, throw out the potato sack he's been wearing, and stop being an irresponsible PoS. No fucking "Go'el" nonsense.

You want to know the funny thing about "Go'el"? Thrall kept "Thrall" as his name as a reminder of his responsibilities and duty. "Go'el" is ironically perfectly fitting for him as a character in his current stages.

[Zandalariprelate]

We liked Green Jesus before he was Green Jesus. We don't want to get rid of him so much as we want him to grow his fucking hair back, throw out the potato sack he's been wearing, and stop being an irresponsible PoS. No fucking "Go'el" nonsense.

You want to know the funny thing about "Go'el"? Thrall kept "Thrall" as his name as a reminder of his responsibilities and duty. "Go'el" is ironically perfectly fitting for him as a character in his current stages.

I always considered Thrall and "Go'el" as different characters because they are so different, I miss the old Thrall but at this point the only message most player will get its about the horde cant work with green jesus

[steelballfc]

Yeah the orcs are the real victims heres /s

when someone doesn't tell you about his evil invading brother yes

[Zulkhan]

Besides Garrosh They lost:


The Kor'kron, Evil and gone forever

Warsong Clan, Evil and gone forever

Dragonmaw Clan, Evil and gone forever

Zaela, Evil and gone forever

Shokia, Evil and gone forever

Nazgrim, Sided with Garrosh and gone from the Horde forever

The idea of Orcs moving on from the past, gone forever

The idea of Orcs being family with Tauren and Trolls, gone Forever

Orcs having a racial leader, gone forever

Orcs being anything but evil cannon fodder, gone forever.


Now with Battle for Azeroth, more races of the Horde can join orcs on the evil cannon fodder team.

Let's find unity in the high ideals of worthless evil foddery.

- - - Updated - - -

when someone doesn't tell you about his evil invading brother yes

I mean, the Draenei literally dragged their own shitty issues all the way to Draenor and got everyone who lived there involved in their own bullshit. And while the Orcs couldn't know better, the Draenei were the supposedly "advanced" race and yet they proved to be just as obtuse as, well, the entire 90% of their race who fucking threw their lot to Sargeras.

[Fayolynn]

The alliance did sacked orgrimmar, and Varian had the last word that we only get away because of his mercy, the horde shit, the alliance became the superpotency in the world

The Alliance did not plunder or destroy Ogrimmar which is the definition of sacking a city. They liberated it from an occupying force and then turned it over to the rest of the Horde. The fact that it was turned over with zero concessions by the Horde is nonsensical drivel to maintain the status quo. The fact that nothing in game after the cinematic reflects the Alliancd being "the superpower of the world" makes that standing meaningless. Every step of the way the Horde goes toe to toe with "the superpower" and inflicts heavier loses then they ever experiance.

[lockybalboa]

Fuck the Horde fanboy writers, my six year old son could write better stories than them