Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    Great first step to scrapping prisons.
    MMO-Champion Off-Topic's voice of reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brexitexit View Post
    I am the total opposite of a cuck.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Ireland. Justice system here is a bloody joke. Murder someone? 4 years, less on good behaviour...
    You should visit germany... a friend of my brother got mugged by a group of turks at a subway station and was pushed infront of a train.
    Hardest sentence was 1 month probation for murder because they where under 18.

  3. #23
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    4,387
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Makes sense, if there’s no rehabilitation benefits to it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That wouldn’t benefit any one it would just turn minor offenders into more of a problem after spending years and years in jail and coming out with nothing.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is a joke right? The us isn’t a standard for prisons as it’s not and never has been about rehabilitation it might as well be a 3rd world country in that regard.
    Rehabilitation is by and far the least important aspect of the criminal justice system. Im proud to live in a country advanced enough to understand that.
    BTW that is codified.
    Order of priority in sentencing from punishment guidelines:
    1) Vengeance for victim
    2) Deterrence against other crimes
    3) rehabilitation for criminal

    Finest system on earth.
    Sig WIP

  4. #24
    Elemental Lord Daemos daemonium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    8,859
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne01 View Post
    Rehabilitation is by and far the least important aspect of the criminal justice system. Im proud to live in a country advanced enough to understand that.
    BTW that is codified.
    Order of priority in sentencing from punishment guidelines:
    1) Vengeance for victim
    2) Deterrence against other crimes
    3) rehabilitation for criminal

    Finest system on earth.
    I mean I guess it’s good to be proud of something even if it is a backwards system that not only doesn’t work but is bad for every one involved.

  5. #25
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    4,387
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    I mean I guess it’s good to be proud of something even if it is a backwards system that not only doesn’t work but is bad for every one involved.
    Its the only moral system. Anything that would see the killer of a father or mother out of jail in their lifetime, even tho the person they killed can never come back, is downright flawed and fundamentally and morally unacceptable.
    Sig WIP

  6. #26
    I've always had a split mind concerning mandatory sentencing and/or the lack of, as both have their merits. I suppose it depends on what justice is really supposed to be in the end.

    It's a complicated topic as it has many facets, however I do firmly believe that intent of those convicted of a crime should be a large determining factor in the punishment. I know there are various types of charges, especially when someone dies, that differentiate between whether the killer had intent to kill or not, but not every crime does. If someone willingly executed a crime, that should certainly hold more punishment than someone who unknowingly or unwillingly executed a crime.

    Rehabilitation is an even sketchier topic. I'm certain there are people who could mend their ways over time based upon their crimes, however I'm certain there are many criminals who won't. Most people who would mend their ways over time wouldn't even commit crimes in the first place. Usually, when a criminal is a repeat offender, I tend to see "Well, that's because they weren't rehabilitated!" or something along those lines, but it could very well have been that the person was going to commit crimes regardless of what rehab program implemented or prison environment. Rehab proponents likely have never been the victim of a serious crime or personally known victims of said crimes, as it's pretty much the last thing on their mind. I suppose in the minds of those who think rehabilitation works wonders is that the crimes were always of necessity, never malice, but that's where I think intent comes into play when sentencing is handed down and separating such people comes into play. This is actually the part where I don't like mandatory sentencing, but it's usually for less serious criminal offenses. If rehabilitation is a viable solution, it would come into play at this point.

    My problem is that someone intentionally committing a crime is someone that likely cannot be trusted to remain in society. I've seen and grown up around some really scummy people who have no regard for any human life but their own, and I can tell you right now there are plenty of people out there that cannot be saved by any amount of rehabilitation (they'd laugh at people who think they even need rehab). I also know people in that same setting who were unwillingly complicit in some pretty nasty situations, but it was a result of their own choices that lead up to that point sadly. I firmly believe that neither should be free of punishment, however the punishment should not be the same. All that being said, what always seems to get lost is the innocent victims of all these crimes, and I feel some people tend to be more concerned about the welfare of the criminal compared to the victims of the crimes. In all cases, consideration of the victims and the laws themselves should supersede the needs/wants of a convicted criminal, as at that point they've violated the rights of other individuals and the rules of society.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2019-01-12 at 11:28 PM.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    There is a line that Judges cross when they sentence someone to prison for six months. Was the crime severe enough? If the crime was severe, then jail, if not, probation.
    people on probation usually spend time in jail and/or prison due to violation anyway. you don't go from a dumbass fuckup who ends up with a PO to not being a fuckup. probation is literally set up to make money off of you until you fail.

  8. #28
    Elemental Lord Daemos daemonium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    8,859
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne01 View Post
    Its the only moral system. Anything that would see the killer of a father or mother out of jail in their lifetime, even tho the person they killed can never come back, is downright flawed and fundamentally and morally unacceptable.
    because murder is the only crime right?

  9. #29
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    4,387
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    because murder is the only crime right?
    I never said that, but in societies which emulate your values, the scenario I described is very common. I mean, I don't believe in prison for drug use, but thats an issue I have with the US justice system thats separate from sentencing priorities, which I do largely agree with. I just don't agree that personal drug use should be a crime, although I can see a different argument tword dealers, but idk, I largely think people should be allowed to do almost anything to them selves as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone elses freedoms.
    Sig WIP

  10. #30
    Herald of the Titans Lollis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,705
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne01 View Post
    Rehabilitation is by and far the least important aspect of the criminal justice system. Im proud to live in a country advanced enough to understand that.
    BTW that is codified.
    Order of priority in sentencing from punishment guidelines:
    1) Vengeance for victim
    2) Deterrence against other crimes
    3) rehabilitation for criminal

    Finest system on earth.
    It's called the justice system, not the vengeance system. Vengeance is not justice.

    As for 2. prison isn't as big a deterrence as you seem to think, hell even the death penalty isn't a deterrence.
    States which have the death penalty have higher murder rates than states without the death penalty.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaorc View Post
    I guess ill make it more humane: Those who are sentenced to prison should have a chance to be released, but they have to write their signature that they wont break a law that results in prison once again within a time period, or they will be punished again for the maximum duration.

    USA just proves that criminals never changes, despite being at risk of being sentenced to life, criminal people keep breaking the law over and over again.

    Sweden usually have criminals getting released much earlier, and its not really that rare to see criminals under the age of 30 with a list of laws being broken being longer than the essays i wrote for my school.

    oh jesus THIS IS CALLED PROBATION /facepalm

  12. #32
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    15,797
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne01 View Post
    Finest system on earth.
    Yeah, if your goal is to produce more crime.
    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    WTF? xD Here you can receive death penalty for murder.

    You should have possibility for death penalty for murder.
    The problem is, at least in the US, the more seriously the crime, the more likely someone else will be paying the penalty for it.

    I find it unlikely that any Justice System has solved human nature's increasing need to exact justice on *someone* as the severity of a crime increases.

  14. #34
    Elemental Lord Daemos daemonium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    8,859
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne01 View Post
    I never said that, but in societies which emulate your values, the scenario I described is very common. I mean, I don't believe in prison for drug use, but thats an issue I have with the US justice system thats separate from sentencing priorities, which I do largely agree with. I just don't agree that personal drug use should be a crime, although I can see a different argument tword dealers, but idk, I largely think people should be allowed to do almost anything to them selves as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone elses freedoms.
    The system you want benefits litteraly no one. The person who committed a crime comes out worse then they went in which then negatively effect the normal citizens when they repeat again. There is a reason why America is looked at as a joke when it comes to prisons and why they always have so many people in prison and that is because the system doesn’t work it just makes every thing worse for every one involved.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •