What is Wrong with WoW? (Your Opinion Edition)

[Hyral]

I like BfA and think it's a good expansion so none of this is hating the game, just answering the question with my opinions. You can like something and still think there's room for improvement.

There's too much focus on RNG shit instead of letting people control their progression. That is one of the big mistakes of this game. Another thread that lasted for a long time had a title that got my attention; There is no difference between a 8/8 and a 0/8 character. There's not much when it comes to goals you can steadily work towards. And because of that there's not much room for looking at the other guy who's actually accomplished something and being motivated, which kills the MMO feel. Just do your randomized dungeons or every other WQ to get your randomized ilvl gear and ignore all other content. Drains away the feeling of progression when it's all based on rolling some dice.

Another thing that contributes to it not feeling like an MMO to me is there's nothing to do besides instances. Professions are pretty much worthless. A few WQs are worth doing to, as usual, roll the dice for BiS rewards but that's it, most are best ignored. World Boss drops are in the same situation, try to roll the dice again unless you already got a piece for that slot with higher ilvl or the right stats then no reason to bother. No badge drops or good rep rewards to encourage you to do content out there to steadily work towards something, nothing, no reason to do anything but go into instances and roll some dice.

Last thing that's wrong but I came to realize it lately but didn't feel was a problem before is there's no content besides combat related stuff. The game's always been like that and I was ok with it but playing other things reminded me there's so much more to do in other MMOs that actually end up encouraging me to interact with other players, like mini games or actually interesting crafting systems, or housing systems. WoW is just combat and nothing more. Even back in '04 there were MMOs that could let you do more than just that. But that's just something I've only come to notice lately, I was ok with it for years so not really that big of a deal I suppose.

Everything else about the game will change or be patched. Class changes, ability changes, they come and go. But what I've listed have been changes in their design philosophy that seem to be here to stay and that's a shame.

[Th3Scourge]

Gearing - too easy to acquire gear, deflating the value of gear and forcing players to resort to 3rd party resources (raider.io) to screen for bad players.
Gearing - Epics everywhere devalues the feeling of acquiring good loot
Gearing - Warforging/Titanforging devalues the feeling of acquiring a piece of loot if it does not warforge/titanforge
Gearing - Emphasis on RNG makes the game feel more akin to a casino or Diablo game than a long-term progression game
Gearing - the 'traditional' gearing methods of running dungeons/WQ/heroics to gear for Mythic+ and raids became obsolete by impossible to lose wafronts
Gearing - Lack of PvP gear means PvP-focused players are forced into PvE to gear
Gearing - Lack of control over PvP gear is frustrating and makes PvP feel unrewarding
Gearing - ilvl inflation is stupid and a consequence of having way too many raid difficulties. Could be scaled back to 3 ilvl per tick instead of 5 or just remove a difficulty tier (normal) and so there's only 3 difficulty tiers per cycle (340/355/370/385 would be replaced with 340/355/370)
Gearing - Remove any catchup gear so 90% of previous tier content isn't obsolete every patch cycle. Pre Sunwell BC had no catchup mechanism and people still ran Kara/Gruul/Mag/TK to gear up!

To summarise, the problem is gearing

[valkar]

I think a major issue is there is a complete lacking of feeling of character progression and immersion.

Lets take the example of doing a dungeon. I can enter a normal dungeon at level 110 and fight and kill a boss and feel like I'm the most powerful warrior in the world! I go out into the world, adventuring and come back at level 120 to fight him again... and he's much more difficult. From a character progression and RPG perspective this simply doesn't make sense. Earlier versions of the game handled this in a much more engaging way. The earliest versions of hard mode or heroic actually had some sort of story associated with them. DM tribute runs, Strath UD timed runs, Ulduar Hard Modes were you had to approach the bosses in a different way to make them more difficult.

So many small elements of the game have been lost for convenience. If you look at each individually they make sense, they save time etc, but when you put them all together it results in a game that feels hollow and lifeless.

[UnderTheWeather]

The lore is horrendous. If you have weak lore, the foundations of the game will suffer. This is what we are seeing in the joke that is BfA.

[infinitemeridian]

I like BfA and think it's a good expansion so none of this is hating the game, just answering the question with my opinions. You can like something and still think there's room for improvement.

There's too much focus on RNG shit instead of letting people control their progression. That is one of the big mistakes of this game. Another thread that lasted for a long time had a title that got my attention; There is no difference between a 8/8 and a 0/8 character. There's not much when it comes to goals you can steadily work towards. And because of that there's not much room for looking at the other guy who's actually accomplished something and being motivated, which kills the MMO feel. Just do your randomized dungeons or every other WQ to get your randomized ilvl gear and ignore all other content. Drains away the feeling of progression when it's all based on rolling some dice.

Another thing that contributes to it not feeling like an MMO to me is there's nothing to do besides instances. Professions are pretty much worthless. A few WQs are worth doing to, as usual, roll the dice for BiS rewards but that's it, most are best ignored. World Boss drops are in the same situation, try to roll the dice again unless you already got a piece for that slot with higher ilvl or the right stats then no reason to bother. No badge drops or good rep rewards to encourage you to do content out there to steadily work towards something, nothing, no reason to do anything but go into instances and roll some dice.

Last thing that's wrong but I came to realize it lately but didn't feel was a problem before is there's no content besides combat related stuff. The game's always been like that and I was ok with it but playing other things reminded me there's so much more to do in other MMOs that actually end up encouraging me to interact with other players, like mini games or actually interesting crafting systems, or housing systems. WoW is just combat and nothing more. Even back in '04 there were MMOs that could let you do more than just that. But that's just something I've only come to notice lately, I was ok with it for years so not really that big of a deal I suppose.

Everything else about the game will change or be patched. Class changes, ability changes, they come and go. But what I've listed have been changes in their design philosophy that seem to be here to stay and that's a shame.

I think that separate systems outside of just your character would be beneficial. Things like a guild hall, or player housing (real housing, not Garrison crap), a boat, something. Something that is cosmetic that you can build and show off, with tons of customizations and perks.

Right now, the only progression in the game is gear gear and more gear. It's been like that since day one and it's gotten stale. People complain about RNG but that's the wrong approach. Sure, it doesn't help, but the root of the problem is that gear is not rewarding anymore.

Too many people on this forum think the game will be "fixed" if we:

-Cut RNG
-Revert to MoP class design

These are not real changes at all - they are bandaids on the gaping wound that is modern day WoW. TOo much focus on gear and higher numbers, and not enough around immersion, choice, and customization. Things that have value outside of just funneling you towards Mythic raiding / Mythic +.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The community is the biggest problem with wow wish there then being lesser problems to the lore and reward systems like removing master loot.

[infinitemeridian]

Gearing - too easy to acquire gear, deflating the value of gear and forcing players to resort to 3rd party resources (raider.io) to screen for bad players.
Gearing - Epics everywhere devalues the feeling of acquiring good loot
Gearing - Warforging/Titanforging devalues the feeling of acquiring a piece of loot if it does not warforge/titanforge
Gearing - Emphasis on RNG makes the game feel more akin to a casino or Diablo game than a long-term progression game
Gearing - the 'traditional' gearing methods of running dungeons/WQ/heroics to gear for Mythic+ and raids became obsolete by impossible to lose wafronts
Gearing - Lack of PvP gear means PvP-focused players are forced into PvE to gear
Gearing - Lack of control over PvP gear is frustrating and makes PvP feel unrewarding
Gearing - ilvl inflation is stupid and a consequence of having way too many raid difficulties. Could be scaled back to 3 ilvl per tick instead of 5 or just remove a difficulty tier (normal) and so there's only 3 difficulty tiers per cycle (340/355/370/385 would be replaced with 340/355/370)
Gearing - Remove any catchup gear so 90% of previous tier content isn't obsolete every patch cycle. Pre Sunwell BC had no catchup mechanism and people still ran Kara/Gruul/Mag/TK to gear up!

To summarise, the problem is gearing

No, the problem is that people are tired of gear being used as a treadmill to mask the fact that the game has no alternate forms of progression. At the end of the day, gear is just higher numbers.

Oh wow, now I'm guaranteed a 385 for doing collecting these points instead of being determined by RNG? Who cares anymore? You'll pile-drive 95% of the content in this game with 350 ilvl, and there's no difference in how you look or how your character plays outside of minor pacing.

[Th3Scourge]

No, the problem is that people are tired of gear being used as a treadmill to mask the fact that the game has no alternate forms of progression. At the end of the day, gear is just higher numbers.

Oh wow, now I'm guaranteed a 385 for doing collecting these points instead of being determined by RNG? Who cares anymore? You'll pile-drive 95% of the content in this game with 350 ilvl, and there's no difference in how you look or how your character plays outside of minor pacing.

That's kinda the same thing. WoWs design philosophy was simple. Get friends, slay dragon, get purples. Gear used to be a reward for killing the dragon and you could show that off and flex your e-peen in Org/SW all day if that's what gets you off. Now said loot has lost its meaning because it is no longer unique and can be acquired from so many other sources with a chance that it is actually better than off said dragon thanks to WF/TF, to the point where all loot loses its meaning because its just numbers.

I would add killing servers and communities with cross-realm bullshit like dungeon finder and LFR but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

[SirCowdog]

Devs philosophy is about luring you to log in and "spend time".
instead of wanting to log in and "have fun".

The gameplay and general philosophy gives you "incentives" (pretty much blackmail) to log in at the frequency it wants you to,
and do the "suggested" (pretty much mandatory) checklists of chores while online.

Instead of providing a non-repetitive, fun game where players will actually look forward to log in,
and do whatever the hell they feel like at the moment, without being "punished".

You cant progress anything on your own pace and schedule. reps, races, mounts, professions, chests.. etc.
if you feel like progressing fast, you cant. there's always a maximum X-progress per Y-time.
But you also cant skip a day/week either, cause if you do, you're left behind.
Better follow blizzard's pace/schedule, or gtfo.


There's many things wrong, but i think this is the most important, imo.

Quoted for truth.

It's all directed to make activity numbers look good on paper instead of being designed to be an actual fun game.

[Mosotti]

I play WoW almost exclusively for the Ironman challenge. I just checked my main for legion and it had 4 days /played for the whole Legion content. My main problems with current WoW are:

- the reward system is a fucking RNG infested shit (fuck Diablo and those fuckheads who brought the whole Diablo bullshit into WoW)
- azerite thingy and the fucking neck piece are stupid (neck? for fuck's sake)
- the whole dungeon timing crap which makes this game look like an arcade game
- the catch up mechanisms that makes all the time and effort useless in a couple of months, when you start over
- time gated content (sorry, come tomorrow/next week. fuck you)

[dewd]

major:
classes play shit.
dungeons suck.
azerite trait lottery.

minor:
professions useless.
mission table useless.

[Karlz0rz]

My only gripe is that artifact grind. It takes up too much time.
Make it so that it doesn't take your soul to "soft cap" it, and I'd be pretty happy with BFA.

[Rozz]

My issue? The chicken mount is limited to the TCG.

[Mestalis]

A lack of flexibility and diversity because of the limitations of a 20 year old engine. The visuals have improved, the diversity of content has improved, the storytelling has improved, the accessibility for new and returning players has improved, and the cinematics have improved. After 15 years of playing the same game, it's difficult to make what is essentially a repeatedly re-skinned experience, new and exciting. As the industry has developed, customization has become commonplace in player characters, and diversity of game-play has flourished. I think the biggest problem with WoW is that they've yet to announce the final expansion. I can only hope that Blizzard are working on big things that they've yet to even hint at, Warcraft 4, WoW 2, or a new MMO in another IP.

[Schattenlied]

It's very simple: WoW is made for shareholders, not players.

Which is sadly illogical... Shareholders really need to understand that happy customers = more money... It may not be more money "RIGHT NOW" but it will be over time.

All they need to do is stop trying to design games to milk us for money and just give us a good fucking game that is enjoyable to play, and the money will flow on it's own.

[Craaazyyy]

awful class design, awful gearing system(and reward system in general), terrible pace, terrible game design with only 5% of the game being even remotely challenging(mythic raids/m+ dungeons and high rated pvp), time gated content, shitty leveling experience because of shitty talent system, shitty reward system.. its mostly caused by it being too easy, sped up and because of stat squish that makes most gear useless.. how on earth gear barely changes when you're 20 levels higher? or more than 20.. lmao

talent/progression system is a complete joke.. not only you get nothing on higher levels(lmao nothing from lvl 80 essentially) you dont get much on lower levels either, pretty much everything(and thats not much) is given to you super early and then you just wait sometimes up to 10-15 levels to get a passive or some shit.. even spell ranks/old talents would be 10000x more exciting than this

the most important of all the things i mentioned is by far the class design. Fuck pruning, fuck "class fantasy", i want my spells back, i want new shit too, i want mechanics reversed or/and brought back(like dot snapshot and even old rogue combo point system)

then its gearing system together with 95% of the game being a cakewalk. Fuck these layers of RNG Blizzard brought upon us. Titanforging, random stats, sockets, random gear from random places(pvp chest, M+ chest, all the islands, warfronts.. everything is fucking random and all of that can titanforge as well, hence the layers of rng). Also stop making everything but mythic raiding/dungeons so fucking easy.. it should be a steady progression, nowadays i doubt people could learn anything from leveling up to fucking normal raids. Hence why you have so many trash players at max lvl with good gear(thanks to dumb gearing system) whining about raider.io or how they cant clear heroic/mythic+ cuz its so hard.. cuz they've learned absolutely nothing b4 they stepped into heroic raids/M+.. but the game is rewarding them for doing absolutely nothing as well

[Armourboy]

That's kinda the same thing. WoWs design philosophy was simple. Get friends, slay dragon, get purples. Gear used to be a reward for killing the dragon and you could show that off and flex your e-peen in Org/SW all day if that's what gets you off. Now said loot has lost its meaning because it is no longer unique and can be acquired from so many other sources with a chance that it is actually better than off said dragon thanks to WF/TF, to the point where all loot loses its meaning because its just numbers.

I would add killing servers and communities with cross-realm bullshit like dungeon finder and LFR but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

Not to mention with the gear scaling in the world and now them buffing content to match the new gear you never really out gear anything. This sounds good on paper, but a big part of what made it worth the effort was the fact you could go back and melt stuff you weren't able to before.

I'm sitting here wondering why I should bother with anything, because in a couple of months they are just going to hand me a new gear baseline and then up the old one.

In their move to try and keep people active they have completely stripped much of the progress out of it.

[yetgdhfgh]

Its played out story wise and gameplay wise.

[KSM899]

I enjoy the story, questing and pve overall.

I've always wanted some RNG in game, like getting an unexpected peace from a dungeon or raid or even killing mobs.
However, I never wanted them to remove the vendor gear, little RNG is always a good surprise, but having it as the solo or main way to gear is bad.

I played death knight since wrath came out, but since legion I abandoned it, because it felt like a completely different class which I did not like.

So simply, the design choices they made did not agree with me. I am not saying I don't enjoy the game, I do, but not as much as I used to be.

[Razecog]

Far too many things but to mention a few: tf/wf, rng sockets, jay fucking wilson, removal of reforging, tertiaries, removal of challenge modes, entire legion, entire bfa.

Just turn back time to 5.0 and try again without making the wrong choice at literally every turn. :-)