View Poll Results: Old Talents v. New Talents

Voters
446. You may not vote on this poll
  • Old Talent Tree

    194 43.50%
  • New Talent Tree

    78 17.49%
  • Somewhere In Between

    91 20.40%
  • New but add more abilities/passives

    83 18.61%
Page 20 of 22 FirstFirst ...
10
18
19
20
21
22
LastLast
  1. #381
    you kinda made the whole topic invalid for me when you I read "Warriors gain Charge Stun back"..

    currents talent tree provide more freedom, ability to prepare for a boss fight (as in change talents) and make it easier to actually achieve some kind of balance for blizzard

    Wildstar Black Ops - loved by strangers

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    As you wish: You're wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Then you're not doing it right.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No, you got the two mixed up.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Actually, the balance now is far, far better than in Vanilla, TBC and Wrath. It's actually silly how good the balance is with as many classes and options within each class and spec. It'll never be perfect of course but still.
    Of course the balance is better now, they have had 14 years to improve it. It's not like if they'd revert back to the old system, they would ditch the current core talents.
    So balance isn't an issue at all.

    But what ever, it's a moot point anyways.
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by pppbroom View Post
    Can you actually answer my question, what choice did I have as a resto druid? Comparing to today's for example monk's playstyle as I mentioned.
    Why are you insisting on comparing a class designed recently - fairly balanced by practically a new team against a completely different class from the past?

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Rotted View Post
    Why are you insisting on comparing a class designed recently - fairly balanced by practically a new team against a completely different class from the past?
    even if you compare it to live druid it's the same. you play a lot differently now than you did back then.

  5. #385
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Somewhere where canon still exists
    Posts
    8,079
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    snip
    Except it isn't like that...if anything BfA is the assembled burger and the Pre-MoP is the pick and choose.

    You had to spend so many points just so you can get 20% to this ability....+15% to two other abilities...you have blow so many points just to assemble a decent burger.

    Please stop with this hybrid BS...there were so few good hybrid builds...most build had you go to the bottom of your primary spec tree and then fill out the rest of the points in other trees for little bonuses.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    The old talent trees now would be ludicrous. We'd have 120 points to spend, and very few builds that are considered acceptable.

    Legion expanded on the concept really well. BFA flopped with it in my opinion because there wasn't a sense of the progression lasting. You just get new armor and re-grind the same traits you had before, almost always. Then the monsters scale up with your traits, so you don't get even a pinch stronger effectively. In Legion, the traits were exempt from this and mobs only scaled to your stats, not artifact traits.
    But...but it wouldn't be ludicrous....it would be cool! Because!

    Because it would be fun to blow 90+ points speccing boosts to your primary abilities! It would be epic to spend 5 points to get 20% damage to Mortal Strike and 5 more to get 15% more damage to Slam! Oh can't forget how mindblowingly sweet it is to spend 5 points for a 10% bonus to execute!

    NOOOOOO! Having those bonuses already rolled into your abilities is LAME!
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  6. #386
    Old talent tree was better for leveling since you got to click a button every time you dinged. Prefer the new system for everything else.

  7. #387
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    Posts
    7,251
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    1%? Nah, thats still not it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    But I do and I did. I just don't see the point in repeating myself. Keep up the personal insults though. That'll get you far in life.
    I'm pretty far ahead in life, thanks.

    Meanwhile you're doing nothing to support your claims, you're just spitting out one-liners. If you want people to take you seriously and not just call you out for shitposting then you'll have to actually provide something tangible to counter to the multitude of evidence I (and others) have presented to you.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  8. #388
    It's not only about the talent trees.
    They could give us old talents, but still keep the gameplay crap.

    If they revert the gameplay back to MoP/Cata style then I'd be very happy to play again.

  9. #389
    Blah blah blah....get a life you wordy nerd....no one really cares what you think

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by pppbroom View Post
    With old talent system you would go one top build and that's it. You do have actually a choice now.
    This, it isnt just their marketing speech, the MoP system is just more fun because you make choices that matter, but that are usually close enough numbers-wise to let you pick how you want to play. There was absolutely no choice in old trees. That was even built into the system by being a tree and forcing you to invest points to move on. Take off the nostalgia goggles, people! Besides class design was great in Cata AND in MoP, in MoP there was extra customization. Old trees are not the solution to current class design problems and 3.2 talents didn't cause it.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    I'm pretty far ahead in life, thanks.

    Meanwhile you're doing nothing to support your claims, you're just spitting out one-liners. If you want people to take you seriously and not just call you out for shitposting then you'll have to actually provide something tangible to counter to the multitude of evidence I (and others) have presented to you.
    I did, early on.

  12. #392
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    Posts
    7,251
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    I did, early on.
    You must present actual evidence contrary to what is shown to you, after it is shown to you and used to refute your claims, if you actually want to defend your position.

    Instead you're just saying "No u." over and over now, which is little more than shitposting.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    What customization? You either used the cookie cutter spec or you were laughed at and called a gimp. The old talent trees sucked and and I am glad they are gone. I have more choice now than I did hen even if it still isn't much.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Please. THe old talent tress were the textbook definition of illusion of customization. Everyone picked the cookie cutter spec for optimal performance. Stop acting like there was any customization in the old trees. There absolutely wasn't.
    Incorrect, you could customize to your heart's content and do whatever you wanted.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    The old talent trees now would be ludicrous. We'd have 120 points to spend, and very few builds that are considered acceptable.
    You're acting like that would be a bad thing. More options are good. More choices are good. More ability to customize and make your character your own is GOOD. It really boggles my mind when people celebrate less customization and less choices.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Thoughts? There was no choice and the new system is better.
    New system has no choice what are u on about? literally only the bottom of the barrel thinks theres a choice, mythic raiding? check warcraft logs and copy paste, M+ check IO leader boards and copy paste.

    For the most part the correct choice is painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain so u dont even need to copy, one talent is 10x better than the other, then its not a choice, just like your autism wasn't a choice.

  15. #395
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    4,490
    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticDreamer View Post
    Incorrect, you could customize to your heart's content and do whatever you wanted.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You're acting like that would be a bad thing. More options are good. More choices are good. More ability to customize and make your character your own is GOOD. It really boggles my mind when people celebrate less customization and less choices.
    Equally it boggles my mind when people use the old talent system and compare it to the second coming of Jesus.

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you never had a choice in the old talent system or the new one. To argue otherwise is pretty asinine and honestly pretty retarded. The new system is essentially the old system stripped of all the filler talents, and the old system was a few power points (generally 11/21/31/41, exceptions do apply) surrounded by filler points.

    Choice never really existed. You could have your snowflake shit builds in the first three expansions, just like you can have your snowflake shit builds in the ones that followed. Trust me, lots of Todd's and Timmy's exist today who take really shitty "unique" builds, just like you had renegades in the first three expansions opt to take 1% less crit, so they could reduce their threat by 4% as some sort of fucking trail blazer. There have always been PvP and PvE variants in regards to builds for the entirety of this games life span, and is hasn't changed from Vanilla-BFA, only the presentation has changed.

    If we want to talk about how having a point each level to click into a tree (generally filling in filler points, like 1% crit, or 2% more damage on a certain ability) upon leveling up felt good, well, that's an entirely different thread. Hope people realize that the Legion artifact was an exact replica of Vanilla-WoTLk talent system (gold and active abilities representing the power points occupying 11/21/31). This isn't me shitting on either system and I'd say Legion was better class design wise than BFA (still not better than WoD/MoP), but it wasn't because of the artifacts.

    To each their own. Some people like the feeling of being forced to click into abilities to optimize their trees because it gives them some psychological high or some shit, and makes them feel like they are accomplishing something.

    Now, don't get me wrong I think PoE is a better game than Diablo 3 but the vast majority of the things in the skill web you click on are inti/agi/strength increases. While there's still a massive amount of choice in that game, it's not like every node or level up in that game is super exciting (and I felt the exact same way in WoW through the first iterations). On another note D2 gave you stat points every level and while it felt cool to 'optimize', generally you would dump your points into the necessary strength (rarely dex on certain builds to hit a cap) and then fill the rest into vitality.

    The picture with the hamburger is generally how I feel class design has progressed over the years and the only thing I really agree with. They seem afraid to keep building upon what they had in the past (this doesn't necessarily concern talents), and instead of progressing with classes they continue to take steps back once and awhile. I obviously recognize that they need to do this to a certain degree, otherwise balance would be a nightmare though.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    You can't claim that you changed your talents in vanilla more than today. it's simply not true no matter how I see it.

    Unless you are a casual player and chose to stay with passive talents all through BFA.
    Of course you can't change them as much, but that has zilch to do with actual choice. Actual respecing is nothing more than a system, it has zilch to do with talent choices themselves.

  17. #397
    AOE and Single target spells should be baseline. It used to be that you clicked on a spell that activates aoe spells. That was nice and smooth. It would make m+ 1000x more fun.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you never had a choice in the old talent system or the new one.
    I agree with the latter, not the former.

    To argue otherwise is pretty asinine and honestly pretty retarded. The new system is essentially the old system stripped of all the filler talents, and the old system was a few power points (generally 11/21/31/41, exceptions do apply) surrounded by filler points.
    "Filler" you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    What was filler to you was customization to other people who actually like RPGs.

    If I was on my Mage I could put points into Frost to get +slowing duration or +100% critical strike with my frost spells. I could go into Fire and give my fire spells a DoT to do a bit of their damage over time or I could give them +chance to stun.

    These were perks that helped you to make your character yours. I could do any kind of build I wanted. Fire / Frost, Pure Fire, Pure Frost, Pure Arcane, Fire / Arcane, Arcane / Frost, Fire / Frost / Arcane, etc. Whatever I wanted. This is what I praise. The freedom to customize my character and to feel like I'm in an RPG. Not a hollowed out version.

    Choice never really existed. You could have your snowflake shit builds in the first three expansions, just like you can have your snowflake shit builds in the ones that followed. Trust me, lots of Todd's and Timmy's exist today who take really shitty "unique" builds, just like you had renegades in the first three expansions opt to take 1% less crit, so they could reduce their threat by 4% as some sort of fucking trail blazer. There have always been PvP and PvE variants in regards to builds for the entirety of this games life span, and is hasn't changed from Vanilla-BFA, only the presentation has changed.
    /paragraph filled with elitism and lies.

    You have plenty of choice back in the day. Now the choice is superficial because you don't get to actually customize your character beyond what Blizzard already gives you.

    If we want to talk about how having a point each level to click into a tree (generally filling in filler points, like 1% crit, or 2% more damage on a certain ability) upon leveling up felt good, well, that's an entirely different thread.
    It did feel good, yes.

  19. #399
    The current talent system to me is more of a super glyph system. In both cases talents and other customization options was taken away and put into the new system to make the system feel meaningful while having effectively free choice in changing ones glyphs/talents based on their category.

    While it can be considered a hit against the balance of the game the existence of odd talent combinations working left some of the more fun change of pace to the game. It was more like a shifting of a games meta in more RPG focused games. It is an aspect Blizzard has been trying to serialize from the game. One of the things I kind of hated from ME:A multiplayer when devs cleaned up many of the "fun" mechanics that was more of broken bugs/design that they didnt bother to resolve and accept as part of the game. Just something like reload canceling made weapons in ME3 made certain weapons have a more skill component in order to make them more viable and in many cases keep up with other weapons. It opened up many other builds that would of instead been trimmed down to a smaller number of viable weapons. How mods, consumables, and abilities interacted with each other also added layers that was more streamlined in ME:A.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2019-01-19 at 08:20 AM.

  20. #400
    Bloodsail Admiral Alkizon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Strasbourg
    Posts
    1,090
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorotia View Post
    snip
    You can deny it as much as you like (you have this right), but that was the idea, class>talents>role idea. These're no perks (it's you current "talents"), they give growth, they require time and development. That was game philosophy, that how it worked, I have already explained this in "levels irrelevance" thread.

    I'll try to use friend's analogy. There is (schools) division into classes (as a period in time, period of development, stage), but there is also interclass division and all this is accompanied by tests/exams/other stuff = learning, slow and gradual. It works so everywhere, what you somehow don't like or incomprehensible to, has no power in this discussion. So, level itself is totality of learning stages (not character level but tree). The last sane option assumed "5 talents" levels, while you were not limited in choosing where to go (of course, you were free to go and only one way, but it'd greatly limit your global and survive abilities) - where to put all 5 talents, they simply had to be invested somewhere in "same direction classes" to pass to next level in this direction. You were not given abilities: you increased your mastery in that you already knew (do you understand this cunning part?). And now you have no such choice, everything is imposed on you that implies your “spec” and its role in hierarchy of duties. In contrast to sequence, that I explained to you earlier, it's opposite now: first comes the role, then perks to fulfill this role, and then only devs remember the class (if even do, but I'm not even sure in that).
    So... it was somesing like: I'll buff (passives, adding points to the same lvl) this stuff because I'm using it alot (your learning at school) and after I'll buff it enough it's became a new different more powerfull spell (you go to higher class, you are unlocking higher tree's lvl).
    Btw, talent - this is what you get from mother nature, and you have work for open (developing) it in a certain direction, and then develop it more, but ability - something that you can learn somewhere (also there wasn't any "unnecessary stats" before and even spirit and intellect give something for warriors <url>)
    As for amount of levels, this is another problem and it's solved a little differently (this concerns more global game design and I also already talked a little about it). Moreover, it's not necessary to increase size of tree (of course it's more interesting, but), and it's not even necessary to limit this tree design to current available "points", it's quite natural to make it for the future and with subsequent possibility of access (with each additional expansion) to its deeper spheres (in cases when player chose “hybrid” build) and into a wider development of character’s horizons (if chose more unipolar one) - player will simply receive more available “modifications” (= from own or different development talents directions = branch) over time (MoP in some sense was look more like borderless (="spec"less) almost full tree share class design, global lack of which was mostly only in absence of sane progress stages and in class mechanics simplification, but which were get already significant damage before (in Cataclysm)). That's all.

    ps. Don't say nonsense. Opinions here are powerless, only design logic and nothing else. It looks more like your problem isn't in "not understanding", but in unwillingness to overcome this barrier (in want), in need of confrontation. I don't believe that you're stupid.
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-02-14 at 07:13 AM.
    __---=== IMHO(+cg) and MORE |"links-inside" ===---__

    __---=== PM me WHERE if I'm unnecessarily "notifying" you ===---__

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •