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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Classic and TBC exploded due to word of mouth
    And not due to aggressive TV-commercial runs starring "household names" like William Shatner, Mr. T and Verne Troyer (among others)?

  2. #462
    It's stupid that devs no longer wanna make a better game, they just wanna make a "different" game.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
    And not due to aggressive TV-commercial runs starring "household names" like William Shatner, Mr. T and Verne Troyer (among others)?
    The sub numbers were already high before those TV commercials even came into play. They certainly helped but no more or less than other advertisements.

    I mean Fortnite doesn't have any TV ads invlving Shatner, and still has millions of players right?

  4. #464
    I was master and even grand master for a moment during my ranked carrer in hots but i was also in gold and silver. Matchmaking was fine during beta and after some time it started to be bad because of noobs who could be placed even in diamond after their very first 10 ranked games. They even chnged it so a lot of ppl missed season to have their qm mmr coppied into ranked mmr for easy master 1k pts.

    My point is that they ruined ranked this way. Skill difference between players on same rank was huge and instead of trying to fix it they started adding new brawls and improvememts to quick match.

    On top of that never balanced new heroes. Some of them were bad and some of them were stupidly overpowered. Easy many for blizzard.

    Btw how can anyone say that wotll was casual friendly? You had to farm honor for pvp off-parts and after that rating for set and other things. On top of that there were clases that had need of pve gear like warrior espesially during s8 so yiu had to do both pvp and pve. Imagine difference between disc priest with double solace or solace + bauble vs disc priest with pvp trinkets.

    Also no lfr, you had to join guild to rly raid or wipe with pugs.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    ...and instead they target this casual MMORPG community that BARELY EXISTS.
    Yeahhhh, I'm gonna have to ask you for a source on that there statement, skippy.

    Also, IMO, what you state is a contradiciton. There is no "Casual MMORPG" community. There's just 'casual players of games' - which I'm more than betting is a far far FAAAAR larger crowd than a bunch of "hardcore" MMO-RPG no-lifers...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Classic and TBC exploded due to word of mouth on a new and growing genre.
    ...and was riding the success/hype of Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings movie trilogy

    ...and was infinetly more accessible to the casual audience of that era (compared to EQ at the time).

    ...and was also the first MMORPG available for Mac users (which is why I started playing it, incidentally ^_^)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    Umm, ending with MoP, the game still had that "45 min" reward system -> VALOR/justice points. With a weekly cap, so players won't feel overwhelmed.
    It worked.
    They destroyed it.
    BlizzTM
    I'd argue the first time they (should've) learned that lesson was in Catafailure - for what you said applied there as well, and with every launch of that fukwit expansion in every world zone - the audience started dropping like bricks at the first month. >_<

    But, the people who learned that lesson (Ghostcrawler, ect) aren't there anymore, and now you've got the Ion Hitzakutzafukzawhatzits pining to reclaim his EQ glory days, repeating the same mistakes the previous staff made over and over again...
    Isn't it immature that you call him Donald "Dump"?
    I agree, it's childish and stupid - and that's my point. it's meant as a deliberate mockery of his blatant disrespect via using "Crooked Hillary", and thus I can call him "Dump" since he dumps his campaign promises, dumps campaign managers, dumps his wives, wants to dump the first amendment, dumps common-sense war ethics and dumps the use of proper English in favor of a mongrel white-trash dialect.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhade1337 View Post
    Sorry but making the game more casual friendly is what's ruining the game, everywone want:
    - insta max lvl
    - insta max gear
    - insta alt rdy geared
    - insta all

    Sorry kids you need to work for those insta all, not log in and have epics in your mail rdy to equip. The game is a lot more different from back in wotlk than today. WoW is on a downhill atm with all these free lot everywhere with all the kids screaming they want loot faster and then when you get it all after a week or two you guys say: there is no content.
    All seem to hate to grind something and say cba doing this or that.
    End of runt, enjoy the game you guys cry over stuff to change and here we are with bfa and the state it is now.
    Making the game more casual friendly, more accessible to even newer players or returning players is what is keeping the game alive right now. Blizzard doesn't give 2 cents about what your opinion is of how the game should be or not, because you and those like you are in a small minority and appeasing that small group isn't going to pay the bills. If they did, WoW would have died out years ago(maybe even tried F2P for a year).

    Seriously, it's 2019 and we're in 8.something and people are complaining about how casual friendly and accessibility is ruining the game, when it's been casual friendly since WotLK or even TBC with pvp epics. You're about 10ish years too late to complain about what Blizzard is doing to keep the game running.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I mean Fortnite doesn't have any TV ads invlving Shatner, and still has millions of players right?
    They do have plenty of Youtube and Twitch spots though with the crossover with Marvel (Thanos) probably being the most well known.
    Kids don't watch TV anymore, so these days you don't advertise there.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
    They do have plenty of Youtube and Twitch spots though with the crossover with Marvel (Thanos) probably being the most well known.
    Kids don't watch TV anymore, so these days you don't advertise there.
    I tend to lump Twitch and Social media in with Word of Mouth. It's the new way of spreading information.

    I don't think advertisements really affect much. Fortnite hit peak numbers well before they spammed twitch advertisements. They certainly help, but people don't play games that they see ads of, they play games their friends play.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I tend to lump Twitch and Social media in with Word of Mouth. It's the new way of spreading information.
    Ahh, I see. That's very interesting and in that case, I fully understand your point of view.
    I view them as (rather shrewd and exploitative) advertising platforms ran by the biggest advertising conglomerates in the world.

    But it's all good though, thanks for the explanation!

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    I think the OP's post is a tremendous over-simplification, but not entirely off-base.

    Wrath WAS incredibly popular, and indeed, it had arguably the most catch-up mechanics of any expansion to date. I think it was also helped that A) it had already build a MASSIVE following from the hardcore gaming community during Vanilla and TBC, and B) it was able to lean heavily on Arthas and his story, which was both something fans wanted more of, and was a character easily relateable as a "mainstream" character (very much in the vein of Darth Vader; people love fall-from-grace storylines).

    Ultimately, while Wrath did a lot of great things, I think part of the issue is that we didn't really feel the true ramifications for its many changes until Cataclysm. Really, Cataclysm wasn't *MECHANICALLY* that different from Wrath. But it no longer had a story or setting that people connected with (Blizzard really hit on the rise "viking" stuff in pop-culture), and we started feeling the negative impact of changes originally set during Wrath. For example, Dungeon Finder was a phenomenal tool when people were used to spending sometimes hours putting together or finding groups. But by Cataclysm, we'd begun to see people abusing the system, being assholes with zero consequence, stuff like that.

    I really do think Blizzard would do well to make WoW more of an "RPG" once again, giving more choice to players (even if it means some "choices" are less competitive than others), making the world something you interact with more, personally investing more into individual characters (I would actually like to see Specs made a little more "permanent", maybe only getting one talent reset a month or having to "un-level" to refund skill points one at a time).

    I'd also say, the story has really kind of gone off the rails (and a "faction war" ceases to be interesting when -- by simple virtue of both factions being playable -- there CANNOT be a definitive "victor" in the conflict). I think Blizzard should consider some kind of a "reset button". I look forward to WoW Classic for much the same reason, but I think it would be a huge benefit if some major event occurred, and it completely changed the world. I've personally posed that maybe a time-skip would work; maybe almost all life on Azeroth is extinguished, but the Titan-Soul of Azeroth protects you and a few others, and "re-awakens" you in the distant future, when nature has reclaimed most of the world. Sort of a "Zelda: Breath of the Wild" vibe, where you're considered an "Ancient" by the tribes and clans that have sprung up since.

    It would also be a great way to give the entire world a face-lift, and maybe reconcile some of the weird time-gaps between expansions (I suppose Warlords of Draenor could remain largely the same).
    Burning it all down and starting again would not be the worst idea in the world.

  11. #471
    What used to be considered "casual" in WOTLK is very different from what is considered "casual" today. Nowadays casuals want to be able to play a game straight out of the box. No gear grind, no leveling process, no build up of power, log in and go kill bad guys or good guys or w/e floats your boat. Today's casual player has the attention span of a Hummingbird on crack. If Blizzard continues to alienate their core audience, they're doomed and what you forecast will be a reality.

  12. #472
    Wrath is way harder than BFA, in BFA you can just que LFR and see endgame, spam Warfront and be Heroic geared, not to mention every class is dumbed down so the casuals can play them (Warrior Stance, DK Runes, etc).

    People legit can play with their feet and get 400 ilvl gear at the end of BOD, its definitely the most casual and accesible version of MMORPG, just like what Ghostcrawler said, its tuned for grandmas (the bad kind of casuals).

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Burning it all down and starting again would not be the worst idea in the world.
    Probably true. At the very least, I think the *story* needs a reset-button, because it's kind of jumped the shark, while at the same time, I don't know anyone who actually gives a shit about these "Void Lords". Moreover, their implementation in the story has kind of come at the expense of how omnipotent Sargeras and the Titans were *SUPPOSED* to be.

    I think just wiping the slate clean might be a good move, honestly.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    WOTLK was stupidly hardcore compared to current game. get out.

    It was only difficult cause you probably started playing back then. Heroic Dungeons were a joke. Naxx was one difficulty that was full cleared the day it came out. The only fights that took a long time to kill were Yogg 0 and Lich King Heroic because they were dps checks and without titanforging/warforging you were time gated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikazukinoyaiba View Post
    Wrath is way harder than BFA, in BFA you can just que LFR and see endgame, spam Warfront and be Heroic geared, not to mention every class is dumbed down so the casuals can play them (Warrior Stance, DK Runes, etc).

    People legit can play with their feet and get 400 ilvl gear at the end of BOD, its definitely the most casual and accesible version of MMORPG, just like what Ghostcrawler said, its tuned for grandmas (the bad kind of casuals).
    And in Wrath you could play an Arcane Mage spam Arcane Blast without having to worry about conserve/spend playstyle and be top damage. If you played a Disc Priest you just PW:S the raid before the AoE damage (it lasted 30 seconds back then) and you were top healer. If you had Shadowmourne you just lol’d your way to 2k+ rating.
    Last edited by muto; 2019-03-22 at 07:31 PM.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    WOTLK was stupidly hardcore compared to current game. get out.
    I don't remember it being hardcore at all.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    It was only difficult cause you probably started playing back then. Heroic Dungeons were a joke. Naxx was one difficulty that was full cleared the day it came out. The only fights that took a long time to kill were Yogg 0 and Lich King Heroic because they were dps checks and without titanforging/warforging you were time gated.

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    And in Wrath you could play an Arcane Mage spam Arcane Blast without having to worry about conserve/spend playstyle and be top damage. If you played a Disc Priest you just PW:S the raid before the AoE damage (it lasted 30 seconds back then) and you were top healer. If you had Shadowmourne you just lol’d your way to 2k+ rating.
    Easy spec like Frost DK and Arcane Mage has always been exists since BC, in BFA every class is easy grandma version of itself.

    And you talk like getting Shadowmourne is easy enough for the average person, or for them to get 2k in the first place LMAO.

    Every garbage players in BFA can get Heroic geared or 2.1k rated pvp ilvl, dont talk about WOTLK being easy if you play BFA, its tuned for Grandmas.

  17. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Burning it all down and starting again would not be the worst idea in the world.
    While I very much agree with the sentiment, I really doubt old, lazy Blizz will ever do anything like it... Maybe for a (VERY unlikely) WoW2, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    Thrall will humblebrag about how he doesn't want it [to be Warchief].
    Saurfang'll probably die or say he's 'too tired'.
    Baine will gasp for air as he plops Anduin's boot out of his mouth and say 'I'll be High King of the Horde!'.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikazukinoyaiba View Post
    Easy spec like Frost DK and Arcane Mage has always been exists since BC, in BFA every class is easy grandma version of itself.

    And you talk like getting Shadowmourne is easy enough for the average person, or for them to get 2k in the first place LMAO.

    Every garbage players in BFA can get Heroic geared or 2.1k rated pvp ilvl, dont talk about WOTLK being easy if you play BFA, its tuned for Grandmas.
    Getting Shadowmourne was easy. All you had to do was be an officer in some casual guild.

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    In Classic and TBC the game grew in popularity. In Wrath it stopped growing. It was also not the "most casual friendly expansion" at all. Do I need to mention it did not have LFR?
    Wrath was the peak of WoW.. Grew to 11M active subs... its gone downhill since then.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    WOTLK was stupidly hardcore compared to current game. get out.
    What do you base this feeling on?

    Is it because of how hard Naxx was?

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