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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by h4rr0d View Post
    Malygos in LFR would be fun.
    9stack Tenacity before even clicking the orb to start the fight

  2. #502
    Just to be clear: How "casual" an expansion is is NOT determined by:
    * How hard BfA M+99 vs TBC Heroics is
    * How hard BfA Mythic raids are compared to TBC Black Temple.
    * How hard it is to get every single possible achievement and mount and transmog in the game.

    If you think this, you have misunderstood.

    Saying WotLK is more casual than BfA because Naxx was easy is completely misunderstanding what a casual game means.

  3. #503
    The Lightbringer Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    What? They created garrison in WoD to please the casual crowd. That's why it failed.
    Maybe that was their intent, but if that was the case, they failed horribly. All the Garrison achieved was to make raidloggers' lives easier than ever, while actual casuals got exactly squat throughout all of the xpac.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    Thrall will humblebrag about how he doesn't want it [to be Warchief].
    Saurfang'll probably die or say he's 'too tired'.
    Baine will gasp for air as he plops Anduin's boot out of his mouth and say 'I'll be High King of the Horde!'.

  4. #504
    I know this has nothing to do with the OP but honestly can I just say that thank fucking god Icefrog remained control of Dota. Can you imagine what kind of shit factory it would be if Blizzard won the rights to it.
    Hi Sephurik

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    WOTLK was stupidly hardcore compared to current game. get out.
    No it wasnt. You get out.

  6. #506
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daikoku View Post
    There is too much BLAND stuff, IE and AFKFRONTS are meaningless, RNG+TF doesnt give you any sense of progression nor achievment.

    Also 4 difficulty for what? Giving us an headache?

    Just leave LFR for the uber-casual pet battle fans
    Remove Normal and leave HC as baseline difficulty
    THEN add the Hard Mode/Mythic Mode a la Ulduar that gives particular gear, ofc better and stronger gear.

    So from [LFR][NORMAL][HC][MYTHIC] to [LFR][HC]{HARD_MODE}


    4 difficulties are completely useless beside the precise criminal intent of making us farming gear to trade it and stay subbed.
    How'd they do hard modes though? Even in Ulduar, they literally just had a fucking button for one of them. It's hard coming up with unique ways of triggering hard mode, so they just made a universal switch

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    What? They created garrison in WoD to please the casual crowd.
    That's simply not true. The sole purpose of garrisons was to provide an offline progression system for raidloggers. Raiders had been complaining for a long time that they felt "forced" to play the game in order to make gold and gather materials for flasks and whatnot, so Blizzard automated the whole process for them.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    The history of HotS:
    It started out being called Blizzard Dota. It had the Dota map, it had items, it had everything that was needed to be concidered a competetor to LoL and Dota 2. It was just a SC2 custom map. Blizzard showed it off on a Blizzcon at an early stage, and people really loved it!

    Then they decided to move it out of SC2 to their own game. Here, they started "innovating". They changed name to Heroes of the Storm, removed items, they made some gimmicky maps etc. to a point it could no longer be concidered a competetor to the MOBAs anymore. "Streamline and make it more accessable!". Nobody wanted to switch from LoL or Dota 2 to this game. Basically telling the LoL and Dota 2 players that love blizzard "you are not the target audience anymore, sorry". Sure there were a small amount that switched, but LoL and Dota 2 did NOT lose any noticable playerbase when HotS released. Blizzard went from targeting the MOBA community to caitering to the casual MOBA community that BARELY EXISTS. The game is now basically in "maintenance mode", it's dead.

    The same can be said about WoW. "Streamline and make it more accessable!". The people that enjoyed Classic and TBC WoW are today told "you are not the target audience anymore, sorry" and instead they target this casual MMORPG community that BARELY EXISTS. See the resemblence?

    And they are wondering why the numbers keep dropping. Wonder if they even see the parallel to HotS. Probably not, so expect WoW in "maintenance mode" in a few years.

    TL;DR: Heroes of the Storms is a MOBA made for people that does not like MOBAs. BfA is a MMORPG made for people that does not like MMORPGs.
    Thumb down for you. HoTS is a big mistake at all. Blizz should to cooperate with icefrog to make DOTA2 together. Blizzard refused great game pretty balanced with huge community just because of pride ? I really dont know. They are pushing classic live to feed the old audience. Retail is for all and i dont think so they will silnce it like HOtS. And plz dont complain about retail BECAUSE ITS BAD AND CASUAL. Yes its casual accesible but that doesnt mean its for casuals only :P Retail is pretty good already but ppl like to complain about the game they used to it. The game flows and changes. I bet half of you would leave WoW years ago if they did not make so many changes. Peace.

  9. #509
    Legendary! Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justpassing View Post
    Yeah and when it WoTLK was current, it was stupidly easy compared to the TBC and Vanilla. If you don't recall the badge shitstorm - it was faar worse than the current shitstorms - then you simply haven't played it and you should get out.



    Mate the badge system was received faaar worse than LFR. LFR grew shitty over time - when LFR was introduced in DS tier it was an extremely lucrative way to get gear.
    Badge system started in TBC. Sure, Heroics did require some amount of CC and competence compared to the AoE fest that was most Wrath heroics, and ToC was... bleh, but the rest of WotLK was solid. You stilll had to find groups for dungeons until ICC released.

    LFR was shitty on release
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by Daikoku View Post
    There is too much BLAND stuff, IE and AFKFRONTS are meaningless, RNG+TF doesnt give you any sense of progression nor achievment.

    Also 4 difficulty for what? Giving us an headache?

    Just leave LFR for the uber-casual pet battle fans
    Remove Normal and leave HC as baseline difficulty
    THEN add the Hard Mode/Mythic Mode a la Ulduar that gives particular gear, ofc better and stronger gear.

    So from [LFR][NORMAL][HC][MYTHIC] to [LFR][HC]{HARD_MODE}


    4 difficulties are completely useless beside the precise criminal intent of making us farming gear to trade it and stay subbed.

    Well isn't mythic basically the same as old heroic?So why not just go back to LFR,Normal,and Heroic. I agree with you completely that 4 difficulties are beyond stupid.I have no idea why they added mythic if they were just going to make heroic the new normal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mingarrubia View Post
    That's simply not true. The sole purpose of garrisons was to provide an offline progression system for raidloggers. Raiders had been complaining for a long time that they felt "forced" to play the game in order to make gold and gather materials for flasks and whatnot, so Blizzard automated the whole process for them.
    What's wrong with this though?Some people like myself play the game exclusively to raid(even though I no longer play lol).

  11. #511
    LOL @"Wotlk was hardcore"

    Late Vanilla (late AQ and naxx) and TBC were hardcore, Woltk was the beginning of wow casualisation of "normal" raids. And that's not a problem for me now that we have mythic mode for the people who want challenge.

    Having to farm pots and flasks doesn't count as "hardcore gameplay", thank goodness raids don't require 10h/week of farming

    What's your problem with the 4 difficulties ? LFR doenst count, it's for people who don't care, you can get better loots for WQ... And when its completely availiable, most people should have gear a lot better than LFR loot... My gear was better than LFR loot even before 8.1 released...

    Normal is the "easy mode" for casuals, heroic is the "hard mode" for casuals and mythic is the only mode that has challenge. No mythic raider farms heroic mode after clearing it once or twice...

    My guild completely skipped normal mode from week 1

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    Just to be clear: How "casual" an expansion is is NOT determined by:
    * How hard BfA M+99 vs TBC Heroics is
    * How hard BfA Mythic raids are compared to TBC Black Temple.
    * How hard it is to get every single possible achievement and mount and transmog in the game.

    If you think this, you have misunderstood.

    Saying WotLK is more casual than BfA because Naxx was easy is completely misunderstanding what a casual game means.
    Then you want a game were you have to farm mats all day to go to raids ? Is that your view of "hardcore" ? No one wants to have to play 10h a day to be able to do the content. That's not my vision of a fun game at all. I always hated to farm in WOW
    Last edited by vashe9; 2019-03-27 at 01:44 PM.

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    WOTLK was stupidly hardcore compared to current game. get out.
    No it wasn't lol.

  13. #513
    The Lightbringer Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    No it wasn't lol.
    WotLK was arguably the babysteps towards modern WoW, for good or for evil YMMV.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    Thrall will humblebrag about how he doesn't want it [to be Warchief].
    Saurfang'll probably die or say he's 'too tired'.
    Baine will gasp for air as he plops Anduin's boot out of his mouth and say 'I'll be High King of the Horde!'.

  14. #514
    I'm not sure how people even define hardcore in this thread, since its what most people derive from. WotLK may not have been hardcore but at the same time it wasn't easier than BFA either, because at least it took a lot more effort to get stuff done like leveling and gearing. Only the raids have become harder, but thats only a small part of the game (which is carried by LFR). So basically the game is both easier and harder than it used to be.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    WotLK was arguably the babysteps towards modern WoW, for good or for evil YMMV.
    That's basically what I'm saying. It's not even "arguably" the babysteps, it minted and put in place the groundwork for what modern WoW design theory would become.

    I would, and do, argue that WoW was only ever really hardcore in Vanilla, and that's largely because the game was so simple back then and (ironically or even almost paradoxically) because people didn't understand it very well. The leveling and grinding processes were much more strenuous in Vanilla/TBC and somewhat still into WotLK, but that's really about it. Play Vanilla WoW on a private server and witness how """"""""""hardcore"""""""""" the raids and endgame is these days.

    Time commitment is the only major thing that changed with WoW, secondary to that is player power while leveling/doing level-appropriate content.

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    I'm not sure how people even define hardcore in this thread, since its what most people derive from. WotLK may not have been hardcore but at the same time it wasn't easier than BFA either, because at least it took a lot more effort to get stuff done like leveling and gearing. Only the raids have become harder, but thats only a small part of the game (which is carried by LFR). So basically the game is both easier and harder than it used to be.
    Well the dungeons in BFA are not afk aeo like in wolkt

  17. #517
    Old God Aggrophobic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    Do you even understand (both of you) that you're now rest against understanding definition of "content"? Ie, you are arguing and comparing things without convinced of sameness of your understanding of this concept. Ie, your discussion is easily killed by one simple phrase: a lot of dif.modes is progress, not content (these concepts aren't interchangeable now, also scaling is none of both). But progress itself in modern interpretation is simplified to obtain items of a certain level - here progress ends. They offered you artifacts first, and now AA and neck as a substitute for progress, but NOT CONTENT.

    We dealt with this many times when we were arguing about M+ and about modern raids design (+(+)+(+/+/+/+)+(+/+/+)+/+(+/+/+)). I also mentioned it a little here, but apparently I overdid it and most people ignored the message due to its size:

    So if a lot of dif.modes isn't content, then you should compare the easiest difficulty for particular “content” for adequacy of your discussion (precisely when discussing content difficulty), but not the most complex one. It's normal vs LFR and now think about what is it for Ulduar. Do you both understand this?

    But if you want to compare progress difficulty, here is a smarter maze, because see the quote: now "all content is consumed easily through easiest difficulty, and progress, which's indicator are equipment(ilvl)+AP, isn't attainable in principle by virtue of mechanics (process is accessible to all regardless of ability and experience, since doesn't require any such stuff to participate (=borderless in terms of content), but is unachievable for anyone)". They simply missing development "ceiling" in current design (not only for a particular player due to limited time and opportunities/abilities, but in general for all). There is no end for "progress" for anyone and since there is no end, so there is no goal to reach that end, which was (still is! I'm not talking specifically about this game) main playing motivator for most people. That is, developer’s trick isn't to make it unattainable in principle, but so that it can be reached by average at a certain time defined by devs (even if this time is transferred to next expansion for some and for some in advance of this deadline), and concepts of progress and content shouldn't be separated here, their division is artificial and vicious for this particular game.

    MORE HERE (kind of tl;dr HERE)

    So, what did you decide to talk about?

    ps. I'd also discuss their abnormal simplification/understanding of "progress" in current design, for it's "stupidity follows stupidity" in this sense, but it won't be appropriate here in my opinion, just redundant.
    Actually, I kinda dozed off there after a line or two. What did you say, again?

  18. #518
    Mechagnome Alkizon's Avatar
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Actually, I kinda dozed off there after a line or two. What did you say, again?
    Actually same as before
    __---=== IMHO(+cg) and MORE |"links-inside" ===---__

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    That's basically what I'm saying. It's not even "arguably" the babysteps, it minted and put in place the groundwork for what modern WoW design theory would become.

    I would, and do, argue that WoW was only ever really hardcore in Vanilla, and that's largely because the game was so simple back then and (ironically or even almost paradoxically) because people didn't understand it very well. The leveling and grinding processes were much more strenuous in Vanilla/TBC and somewhat still into WotLK, but that's really about it. Play Vanilla WoW on a private server and witness how """"""""""hardcore"""""""""" the raids and endgame is these days.

    Time commitment is the only major thing that changed with WoW, secondary to that is player power while leveling/doing level-appropriate content.
    Claiming that the difficulty of vanilla is comparable to BFA is laughable at best. It's not just about the time commitment. The only thing that is more difficult now is mythic raids. Everything else is easier by a mile.

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