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  1. #241
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violetti View Post
    Imagine thinking current wow is more accessable to casuals than vanilla
    Imagine thinking the casual MMORPG community barely exists.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  2. #242
    WoW needs a complete revamp on a modern graphics engine.

  3. #243
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvaliz View Post
    Actually, they were in the beginning/first few weeks. It was only when LFG happened (along with the pug buff) did they become super easier.
    That's why I wrote "after the first week". And no, heroics in WOTLK were pretty easy even before LFG.
    OTOH, when LFG was introduced with the Halls of Reflection/forge/whatever, it was no jokes in LFG.
    MMO player
    WoW: 2006-2020 || EvE: 2013-2020 || FFXIV: 2020- || Lost Ark: 2022-

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Pillerina View Post
    Using Naxx as a reference point for wrath overall, lul.
    Cause the first raid tier of an expansion isn't important? How about the third raid tier?

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    WOTLK was stupidly hardcore compared to current game. get out.
    It really was not. The hardest thing about Wotlk raids was to not fall asleep as you rolled your freaking mousewheel that had your whole rotation macroed on it.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    Cause the first raid tier of an expansion isn't important? How about the third raid tier?
    It would be like saying Emerald nightmare is indicative of the general difficulty of legion. I'm not saying it's not important, I'm just saying the reasoning is fallacious.

  7. #247
    ... LK 25 HC was downed only with the 5% buff... he was far from being "number check" since he had 1 shot kill mechanics.

    NAXX was a revamped raid from classic - barely no differences, that is why it was so easy. And the main point in NAXX were the imortal achievement.

    Also, gearing up and tuning your class had far more depth that BfA had. You had different set of attributes (hit and defense were a thing back there), different talent system and so on

    You had to form your group manually for most of the xpac - which itself was a challenge depending the dungeon you wanted to do (hi Occulus and old kingdom).

    Wrath had two moments: one up to Ulduar (3.1) and one after that. The after was the beginning of the simplification that we got today.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by In Ogres We Trust View Post
    What? That... doesn't... even... make... sense.
    How doesn't it make sense? Naxx10 was as easy as heroic dungeons were... the first time I did Naxx10 (with a pug) we only wiped on Kel'Thuzad once and this was in 3.0. Only the 25-man raids were somewhat challenging

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pillerina View Post
    Using Naxx as a reference point for wrath overall, lul.
    Yes???? It was literally the 1st raid tier of the expansion (and BfA so far has also only 1 raid tier for comparison). And EoE, OS and Archavon were as easy. Uldir LFR is harder than the 10man versions of these raids.

    Ulduar 10 was also super easy. The first time I did it we oneshot every boss except Mimiron (wiped 3 or 4 times), Vekaz (was a legit hard boss, because it required some good coordination) and Yogg'saron (also required a lot of coordination, but was easier than Vekaz).

    ToC, ez pez.
    ICC, ez pez except for Blood Queen, Sindragosa and LK.

    BfA as an expansion sucks and Wotlk was great... but that doesn't mean that wotlk was good, because it was harder or some bullshit.
    Last edited by RobertMugabe; 2019-01-17 at 05:23 PM.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    How doesn't it make sense? Naxx10 was as easy as heroic dungeons were... the first time I did Naxx10 (with a pug) we only wiped on Kel'Thuzad once and this was in 3.0. Only the 25-man raids were somewhat challenging

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes???? It was literally the 1st raid tier of the expansion (and BfA so far has also only 1 raid tier for comparison). And EoE, OS and Archavon were as easy. Uldir LFR is harder than the 10man versions of these raids.

    Ulduar 10 was also super easy. The first time I did it we oneshot every boss except Mimiron (wiped 3 or 4 times), Vekaz (was a legit hard boss, because it required some good coordination) and Yogg'saron (also required a lot of coordination, but was easier than Vekaz).

    ToC, ez pez.
    ICC, ez pez except for Blood Queen, Sindragosa and LK.

    BfA as an expansion sucks and Wotlk was great... but that doesn't mean that wotlk was good, because it was harder or some bullshit.
    1 tier =/= an expansion. I'm not arguing that wotlk was difficult, I agree, it wasn't. Then again, the difficulty in MMOs is in coordination, not in individual skill. But in general the older expansions are way easier simply because pretty much everyone was shit at the game. All i'm saying is that your reasoning was pretty flawed, and for the record, noone cared about 10man raiding.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post

    If WoW was back in vannila areldy casual there was no reaosn to make it even more casual. Vannila striked sweat spot beetwen casual/hardcore and sandbox/themepark.
    In 2004, yes. In 2018, no.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Darkener View Post
    If you've never worked with Orthodox Jews then you have no idea how dirty they are. Yes, they are very dirty and I don't mean just hygiene
    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    most of the rioters were racist black people with a personal hatred for white people, and it was those bigots who were in fact the primary force engaged in the anarchistic and lawless behavior in Charlottesville.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Pillerina View Post
    1 tier =/= an expansion. I'm not arguing that wotlk was difficult, I agree, it wasn't. Then again, the difficulty in MMOs is in coordination, not in individual skill. But in general the older expansions are way easier simply because pretty much everyone was shit at the game. All i'm saying is that your reasoning was pretty flawed, and for the record, noone cared about 10man raiding.
    I specifically brought up 10man raiding, because the main argument people here are using as to why BfA raiding is soooo easy (while Wotlk was so much harder) is because it has LFR and I thought that comparing the easiest form of raiding from Wotlk with the easiest form of raiding from BfA is a somewhat fair comparison. Wotlk's 1st and 3rd raid tier in 10man mode (+ any AV boss) are really like LFR, while Uld10 and ICC10 (pre-nerf) are more like Uldir Normal.

    But yeah other than that you're correct ofc.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    How doesn't it make sense? Naxx10 was as easy as heroic dungeons were... the first time I did Naxx10 (with a pug) we only wiped on Kel'Thuzad once and this was in 3.0. Only the 25-man raids were somewhat challenging

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes???? It was literally the 1st raid tier of the expansion (and BfA so far has also only 1 raid tier for comparison). And EoE, OS and Archavon were as easy. Uldir LFR is harder than the 10man versions of these raids.

    Ulduar 10 was also super easy. The first time I did it we oneshot every boss except Mimiron (wiped 3 or 4 times), Vekaz (was a legit hard boss, because it required some good coordination) and Yogg'saron (also required a lot of coordination, but was easier than Vekaz).

    ToC, ez pez.
    ICC, ez pez except for Blood Queen, Sindragosa and LK.

    BfA as an expansion sucks and Wotlk was great... but that doesn't mean that wotlk was good, because it was harder or some bullshit.
    This diacussion isnt about difficulty but about acessability. Blizzard way to make wow as much acessible as possible they completly removed every piece of exclusivity in the game. And this is huge issue. There is noyhing to look foward to as long as you are not addicted cuttimg edge hunter which have barely any value. Back in TBC i started raiding becouse that exclusivnes drives me into it. It was so exciting just to enter BT. I can barely give **** about rewards or content what hust sits there on silver plate for me. 0 iniciative to do spend time doing anything in wow.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    The same can be said about WoW. "Streamline and make it more accessable!". The people that enjoyed Classic and TBC WoW are today told "you are not the target audience anymore, sorry" and instead they target this casual MMORPG community that BARELY EXISTS. See the resemblence?

    And they are wondering why the numbers keep dropping. Wonder if they even see the parallel to HotS. Probably not, so expect WoW in "maintenance mode" in a few years.
    The game has been streamlined since WoTLK added random dungeon finder, and even more-so in cataclysm when they added LFR. In fact Cataclysm took it to the next level, and even nerfed dungeons that were originally made for hardcore players, to cater to the more casual players.

    Don't see WoW in maintenance mode, and it's been at least 8 years. All these "WoW is terrible" and "WoW is dead/dying" memes are just getting annoying at this point.

  14. #254
    The Lightbringer msdos's Avatar
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    People saying Wrath was easy I hope you have all your hardmode achieves, Tribute to Insanity, They're Coming out of the Walls, Dedicated Few, etc.

  15. #255
    blizzard is pulling a lot of things :P

  16. #256
    LoL absolutely drowns its players in utterly needless complexity. I can't stand that game.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by LanceOmikron View Post
    LoL absolutely drowns its players in utterly needless complexity. I can't stand that game.
    completely utterly disagree, not one blizzard game is "complex"

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by madgar29 View Post
    completely utterly disagree, not one blizzard game is "complex"
    I said that League of Legends is the one that's drowning players in needless complexity.

    Is there any reason why it has to have Items, Summoner Spells, Masteries, AND Runes all at the same time? One or two of those mechanics I can understand, but having that many layers of complexity involved is absolutely obnoxious, especially in a game that expects you to learn how to play multiple characters.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by LanceOmikron View Post
    I said that League of Legends is the one that's drowning players in needless complexity.

    Is there any reason why it has to have Items, Summoner Spells, Masteries, AND Runes all at the same time? One or two of those mechanics I can understand, but having that many layers of complexity involved is absolutely obnoxious, especially in a game that expects you to learn how to play multiple characters.
    What? League of Legeds have only items and runes nowdays there arw no masteries. Also summoner spells have league for several years without any real change so players alredy understand them.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    Like cmon Naxx 10 overall was about as hard as the heroic dungeons (which were already very easy). I remember that very well.
    And Yogg 0 lights was up for 85 days. Some things were "easy", but remember that normal was the lowest difficulty then. By rights, we should be comparing AFK friendly LFR to WOTLK normal mode. By that comparison, WOTLK normal mode raiding was quite difficult.

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