So, item levels are getting spiked for no reason. Again.

[cparle87]

It's the downside of squeezing all the gear power gains into single number representation, I guess.
It's hard to do anything but invalidate the previous patch gear by bumping that number, because it's pretty absolute measurement without variation.
I agree it's silly, but I'm sure it looks elegant and beautiful when the systems team presents the Excel sheet in their design meetings.

You want spreadsheets? Take a look at the attunement for Mount Hyjal sometime. Unless you want something like THAT to come back invalidating the previous tier when the new one comes out is pretty unavoidable.

[XDurionX]

Question one was:

"When did dungeon items get their item levels increased, rather than new dungeons with better gear?"

The answer is Battle for Azeroth.

Try question two, I've given you the clue to its answer in question one.

And the badges from heroic dungeons could buy you better gear every tier in BC, which is different how?

Keep raging, this is hilarious.

[kamuimac]

It feels like getting the middle finger from Blizzard. All the work you did in 8.0 regardless of what level you play is now completely invalidated. Even the mythic raiders are getting the shaft, they could've cleared the raid once and then just waited until 8.1 and got the same quality gear for literally no effort at all.

Character progression is dead. You're now truly playing the patch, not the expansion.

and what you must feel during last tiers of expansion when you know that all that gear you work so hard for will be replaced with leveling greens

this must be world shattering for you i bet

[Bryntrollian]

We went +200 ilvl in just one raid tier. Blizzard made their ilvl/stat squish meaningless within a few months, it's shocking how they keep butchering the character progression by throwing endless gear/ilvl/difficulties into a blender.

How can you say the stat squish is meaningless if we aren't doing 3 million dps single target?

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Okay, I'll clear this up for the people who just don't get it.

Tell me:

1. When did dungeon items get their item levels increased, rather than new dungeons with better gear?
2. When did World Quests start getting their items increased, rather than replaced via new content?
3. When did vendors get their items increased, rather than a new tier vendor prior to the system removal?
4. When did gear bonus procs start their random item level increase, rather than a specific value?

I'll let you start with those four. And, to be fair, anyone is allowed to answer them. I'll happily correct those who are wrong, just to put this "this iz fiftein yearz lolz" claim out of the thread, because it's laughably incorrect.

@OneWay, @XDurionX, @Gaidax and @Felrush are all invited to answer these questions, too.

Your first option splits the players base and increases queue times. If only certain dungeons give better gear than that's less dungeon to play overall. It's a great way to make players bored with the game. Because throwing away old content is a dumb idea why waste those man hours. There are also people who haven't completed the reputation grinds and would have to cut progress to go back. I don't mind it I just want a cap and an upgrade system where currency is acquired from the content the item drops. It makes repeating content for certain drops worth it rather than ignoring it because the ilvls to low.

[Aggrophobic]

Legion increased dungeon item level with new dungeons. So, new content was provided.

PvP gear has improved by new gear in new seasons, and it was done via vendors for the overwhelming majority of the game.

Let's just start with those two:

I'd rather have new dungeons, than nothing but the same dungeons that are spiked - and, I'd rather there was new PvP gear, rather than the same gear sourced from exactly the same stuff... That is completely random and not in your control as a player.

Sure and we'll get new dungeons in time. The gear they dropped was the same in m+ though and it still is. This way, you have more content at max level instead of running out of things to do. That was actually a common complaint in many expantions, previously but something people seemed to like with Legion: Having most content giving relavant loot for most of the expansion.

Now, less RNG and more badges or other forms of currency would be great, I agree with you there.

[Zantera]

I do feel like the ilvl jumps up too much wih each tier but otherwise I think it's good they keep certain content relevant. I'd rather all the dungeons stay relevant than the WotLK or Cata model where you get 2 or 3 new dungeons that are worth it and the rest become obsolete after a few months.

[Nivena]

Welcome to Diablo 3, built by a team that has fundamentally no interest in making a game that its players are interested in.

Dungeons just jump 30 points, while WQs jump to 385.

Jesus.

Isn't Jay Wilson (they guy who had a lot of say during the earlier days of Diablo 3) now on the WoW team?

Yep, it's getting ridiculous with the item level scaling....and as an elemental shaman I still struggle when fighting a pack of mobs while as retribution it's no issue to pull 6-7 mobs at the same time despite lower ilevel.

[MasterHamster]

Entire game is built around repeating the same easy content over and over, so one bandaid is to keep shifting ilvl requirements and rewards.
And remember, only 1 raid tier may ever be relevant at any one time.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Entire game is built around repeating the same easy content over and over, so one bandaid is to keep shifting ilvl requirements and rewards.
And remember, only 1 raid tier may ever be relevant at any one time.

With titanforging that's not always true for every class at least back in legion. Certain trinkets and tier sets from prievous raids were to good.

[Pua]

Isn't Jay Wilson (they guy who had a lot of say during the earlier days of Diablo 3) now on the WoW team?

Yep, it's getting ridiculous with the item level scaling....and as an elemental shaman I still struggle when fighting a pack of mobs while as retribution it's no issue to pull 6-7 mobs at the same time despite lower ilevel.

Yep, I'm pretty sure he's still part of it after getting kicked out of the Diablo 3 team because he designed it so poorly.

And the badges from heroic dungeons could buy you better gear every tier in BC, which is different how?

Keep raging, this is hilarious.

Okay, is question two worded in a way you can't understand?

If that's the problem, let me know and I'll try to reword it.

[Gaidax]

No, he's saying the questions you asked are focused on the context of the current expansion/more recent expansions. I.E. instead of asking a generic "what catch up mechanics were in other expansions?" you choose to be more specific in your questions, because they weren't honest questions.

There wasn't any "ilvl" bump in Wrath for example, but it had catch up mechanics just like every other expansion. But given that you just quoted the first sentence of his response, it leads me to believe you just gave up trying to understand his answer and just respond with a "haha no you" basically.

This.

I don't need to waste my time answering random forum troll that seemed to be oblivious to the fact that you had this general ilvl bump for fucking ever by various means.

It was there forever whether it was by tossing shit on vendor to buy for tokens or tossing in a dungeon or pleb raid for that. The fact that M+ exists improved the system because now you can do multiple dungeons instead of that new one for the same effect.

[Pua]

I don't need to waste my time answering random forum troll that seemed to be oblivious to the fact that you had this general ilvl bump for fucking ever by various means.

Nobody (not even me, the OP) is arguing that item level increasing has been available since the game started.

Honestly?

I've no idea why people are claiming otherwise. I can only conclude it's a grasp misunderstanding of what the complaint actually is.

[Ophenia]

Repeating the same mistake again and again, but that gets worse every expac because of the ever increasing number of difficulties.

[Hiromant]

The game just doesn't tickle the dopamine receptors quite right anymore. Anything that is free and abundant is worthless. This now describes all aspects of character progression in wow which is why last time I logged in in my formerly busy server, Orgrimmar was a silent ghost town.

[XDurionX]

Okay, is question two worded in a way you can't understand?

If that's the problem, let me know and I'll try to reword it.

Since you're not the brightest and have problems understanding the answer given to you multiple times, answer this ( i can ask questions, too):

How is providing MORE options for the everexisting catch up instead of being funneled into running the SAME OLD FUCKING HEROIC DUNGEONS OVER AND OVER AGAIN FOR BADGES a bad thing?

Facts:

Catch up has been in the game since BC.
Raid gear has been made irrelevant with the launch of every xpac including the very first one
More options for catch up is a good thing
We have more stuff to do in the world than ever before
Repeatable quests were much lower in quantity and in quality back then
Every raid encounter nowadays has more mechanics than 3 encounters back then
Attunements made it practically impossible to change your char during an xpac, new players joining during an xpac were excluded from raiding from the get-go, unless they put in overproportionate effort to make groups for outdated content nobody wanted to run anymore.
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug, people tend to forget the boring chores of old xpacs, often condense fond memories of whole xpacs to compare them to the single [current tier]

[Tomana]

have one HARD raid difficulty like BC and it will be gone.

Sure, if you pay separately for the raids. I don't want to pay a sub to finance content I no longer have the time to experience, thank you.

[Zka]

For no reason? When did you start playing WoW, 2 weeks ago? New raid tiers have always obsoleted almost every previous piece of gear almost immediately since late LK/Cataclysm.

[Tomana]

Path of Exile does seasons too. They call them leagues. Once the league is over, your character and stash are moved to the default league and in the next league you start completely fresh.

If WoW adopted this model people would collectively lose their marbles, but it'd be interesting to me since I'm used to it. Maybe the game needs something like that. It needs a lot of things.

By all that is holy, please keep that away from WoW (and other MMORPGs). PoE is an awesome game, but the league system resetting all the characters is mentally retarded. Heck, strap away all of the gear and make the PoE characters do the A1 naked again, but I don't want to level a new character from scratch.

[Jimmyw]

Welcome to World of WarCraft that has been like this for 15 years.

has it been THIS bad before? I dont remember it like that, but maybe it has.
What did I do the past few months that gives it any meaning? I got my warlock to around 385 - and for what? 385 will be the new baseline for newly dinged alts with this spike...
to me this seems excessive? normaly mythic, not even mythic+ will now award 370 gear??????? I mean.... maybe the mistake is that this time around they have nothing covering or making up for this in a content form. its the same shit just higher ilvl completely making the past 6 months IN THE SAME XPAC - feel meaningless...