Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    Shadow still feels like a chore to play, the only difference is now your dad is actually paying you for doing your chores-- the spec does good damage, but it's still not fun. Voidform is still a big janky punishing mess.

    Bring back Cata Shadow.

  2. #22
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Darnassus
    Posts
    11,306
    Quote Originally Posted by davesignal View Post
    Shadow still feels like a chore to play, the only difference is now your dad is actually paying you for doing your chores-- the spec does good damage, but it's still not fun. Voidform is still a big janky punishing mess.

    Bring back Cata Shadow.
    ^ Ya this.

    At least we do numbers now. But the spec still 'feels' terrible.

    We'll probably get our damage nerfed in a week or two though, and then we'll be back to still feeling like shit and doing below average DPS.
    Youtube ~ Yvaelle ~ Twitter

  3. #23
    Bloodsail Admiral Skylarking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Centrelink
    Posts
    1,020
    I would be ok with any past iteration of shadow compared to this. Void form is aids.

  4. #24
    Why did they even add Voidform? At a time where the spec was virtually universally loved? I mean, out of all the classes/specs needing a fundamental reword, was it really Shadow Priest that needed a new clunky mechanic? I had so much fun in WoD, and then Voidform came along and literally made me reroll Warlock because it was such a pain in the ass to use.

    I'm glad that the damage is there. But I don't think I'll go back to Shadow while Voidform exists (in its current form). I was Shadow since mid-TBC, but it's just been ruined for me.

  5. #25
    Yeah. Cata was the natural evolution of the "original" Shadow spec, and had 8 years of development behind it. Universally loved spec, major rework going into MoP.

    Then they used all of MoP and the majority of WoD for experimenting, until the spec was finally in a really good spot towards the mid/end of WoD (at least if you ignore the days after they buffed the class trinket and we had to play CoP. Another 4 years of development, and another rework when the spec was finally in a good place again.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
    Holyfury armory

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    Yeah. Cata was the natural evolution of the "original" Shadow spec, and had 8 years of development behind it. Universally loved spec, major rework going into MoP.

    Then they used all of MoP and the majority of WoD for experimenting, until the spec was finally in a really good spot towards the mid/end of WoD (at least if you ignore the days after they buffed the class trinket and we had to play CoP. Another 4 years of development, and another rework when the spec was finally in a good place again.
    I have a theory that WoD’s AS style was not actually as well-loved as some people want to think. I am not saying that it didn’t work well, nor am I seeking to undermine anyone who liked it. In general I strongly feel that killing that play style was a very poor decision.

    However.

    I feel that many people struggled to play AS effectively. The style was incredibly gear dependent, and it required a very specific mindset and way of playing and thinking. I strongly believe that AS drove just as many players away from Shadow as were attracted to it, but these players were a silent majority, who were either too embarrassed to vocally admit they couldn’t get it to work, or just simply walked away and didn’t care to try to convince people that they had valid reasons to dislike it.

    At the same time, the “camp” that loved AS also essentially abandoned the class late WoD because they felt being forced to play a different play style was insulting/demeaning/whatever. I knew a lot of shadowpriests who simply refused to learn end game CoP, and finished out WoD as AS.

    I’m not trying to stir the pot again. My point is that regardless of which type of player you were, you both had good, valid reasons to stop playing Shadowpriest in WoD and just simply play another class that felt like it had a more coherent design direction.

    I think that Shadowpriest class in WoD was literally hemorrhaging players in buckets by the end of that expansion. And Void Form redesign internally was a decision born out of a simple command: Burn it all.

    The class’ spec was probably in danger of irrevocably dying at the end of WoD, no matter how happy a small subset of players were, and VF was the “Hail Mary” redesign meant to try to bring back ALL of the players who had completely abandoned the spec for good.

    That’s been my theory for the past few years, and even if I can’t prove it, every discussion and interaction with players over the past several years basically fits logically into that theory, and I don’t see many other competing theories.

    The best alternative reasoning I’v seen so far is just simply that the artifact weapon system wouldn’t have worked with any of the old designs, and VF was just simply a game design decision born out of necessity of the underlying game systems. But I feel that doesn’t disprove my theory, as it could have simply been an addendum.
    "Falling from heaven is not as painful as surviving the impact."

    DPS Loss - my guild on Proudmoore
    The Old Guard - my guild on Earthen Ring
    Revenant - my guild on Echo Isles

  7. #27
    For the record, as a guy who played every caster DPS with a maxed ring in WoD (kind of no-lifed it for awhile there), the only remarkable memory I have about Shadow at that point in time is annoying the shit out of my raid by gathering orbs before pulls during progression.

    Fuck WoD Shadow.

  8. #28
    Latest update (04.02.2019)

    You have two choices:

    1. You go for "true sp fasion", push haste and mastery, with Twist of fate / SW: Death ( Traits, preferably double chorus + double whispers of the damned ), obviously maximize SW:Void cast count, dmg modifier from the trait will almost make up for shadowy apparition damage loss
    2. More mainstream, more faceroll, easier to play with higher damage output ( WITH RIGHT STATS/TRAITS ). You go for as much crit as you possibly can, while having somewhat reasonable haste ( you can completely ignore mastery ), as far as talent and traits go : Twist of fate remains the same for most encounters ( maybe except opulence ) + Auspicios spirits ( Traits, again, pref double chorus + double or even tripple Spiteful apparitions )

    Now, as much as I like SW: Death ( should absolutely be baseline )and as much as i think that this ability literally defines the SP, there is nothing we can do about the fact that second build option objectively offers better performance with less effort. I've been resisting the shadowy apparition build for entire Uldir tier and i was still able to be competitive, but at this point, as the expansion progresses and secondary stats passively increase, we just ended up with high enough crit that ywe're almost forced to go for the second build option. Especially now, where we have quite a few encounters where we have to multidot, unfortunately for me and probably many other old SP players, at this point SW: Death can't compete with apparitions anymore

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Chillside View Post
    Latest update (04.02.2019)

    You have two choices:

    1. You go for "true sp fasion", push haste and mastery, with Twist of fate / SW: Death ( Traits, preferably double chorus + double whispers of the damned ), obviously maximize SW:Void cast count, dmg modifier from the trait will almost make up for shadowy apparition damage loss
    2. More mainstream, more faceroll, easier to play with higher damage output ( WITH RIGHT STATS/TRAITS ). You go for as much crit as you possibly can, while having somewhat reasonable haste ( you can completely ignore mastery ), as far as talent and traits go : Twist of fate remains the same for most encounters ( maybe except opulence ) + Auspicios spirits ( Traits, again, pref double chorus + double or even tripple Spiteful apparitions )

    Now, as much as I like SW: Death ( should absolutely be baseline )and as much as i think that this ability literally defines the SP, there is nothing we can do about the fact that second build option objectively offers better performance with less effort. I've been resisting the shadowy apparition build for entire Uldir tier and i was still able to be competitive, but at this point, as the expansion progresses and secondary stats passively increase, we just ended up with high enough crit that ywe're almost forced to go for the second build option. Especially now, where we have quite a few encounters where we have to multidot, unfortunately for me and probably many other old SP players, at this point SW: Death can't compete with apparitions anymore
    Yeah, I honestly returned a week ago and I'm still lolcasual leveling. I'm using SW: D and it feels natural. Once I hit max level and start gearing myself out I'm at odds with myself whether I'm going to be able to let Shadow Word Smiley go. I've been playing since Cata and the idea just feels weird. :3

  10. #30
    Yea shadow is ok.. but thats it. Legion ruined shadow imo and lost stuff in bfa and now we will see things readded as talents what we had in legion. Idk the feel the touch idk how to call it but the fun shadow used to be was a long time ago.
    I miss mists shadow priest.. that was the best time to be one tbh, and it will never be as good.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Yeah, I honestly returned a week ago and I'm still lolcasual leveling. I'm using SW: D and it feels natural. Once I hit max level and start gearing myself out I'm at odds with myself whether I'm going to be able to let Shadow Word Smiley go. I've been playing since Cata and the idea just feels weird. :3
    Sw: D should be baseline, its been said months ago and it still.true to this day.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    For the record, as a guy who played every caster DPS with a maxed ring in WoD (kind of no-lifed it for awhile there), the only remarkable memory I have about Shadow at that point in time is annoying the shit out of my raid by gathering orbs before pulls during progression.

    Fuck WoD Shadow.
    It went downhill afther wrath.. wod was lolshadowmage and was actuslly op.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    wod was lolshadowmage and was actuslly op.
    If you consider having the lowest burst damage of any caster due to the inability to start fights with orbs and literally having zero cooldowns to use in conjunction with the ring "actually op" then sure, I guess.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Icathian View Post
    Imo the real problem is the community perception of the class.

    I've lost count of how many people I've seen saying something like "Who invited the spriest?11!?!1 lollll.....", "spriest sucks, you should just heal", "pull your weight or i'll replace you" then after seeing me beat the crap out of them in dps, they either apologize or ask for my bnet tag thinking I'm "one of a kind", when I'm far from being amazing, just a spriest that knows the spec.

    Although shaman dps also went through a lot of issues, people would usually see a shaman as "good enough". That doesn't happen with spriest, you can be near BiS and people will still give you crap.
    its not about priests not being good, its about the design

  13. #33
    No rework, only buffs + Battle of Dazar'Alor raid was made for shadow priests.
    There is a saying: "don't fix what isn't broken". Blizzard does NOT follow this saying. To them its "if it isn't broken fix it until it is"

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Adammonroe View Post
    I haven't played since 8.0 before the raids came out. What's changed for shadow?
    the blue post confirmed and promised overhauls of shadow and ele just never happened. blizzards class design team does literally not exists, since launch of BfA. there are just ppl, tuning on numbers knobs, aka type entries in databases to change balance relations between classes. thats it.

    welcome to modern cost effective development wow. yeah

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    the blue post confirmed and promised overhauls of shadow and ele just never happened. blizzards class design team does literally not exists, since launch of BfA. there are just ppl, tuning on numbers knobs, aka type entries in databases to change balance relations between classes. thats it.

    welcome to modern cost effective development wow. yeah
    Honestly, Shadow plays just fine right now. The 8.1 refresh left the class in a pretty good spot. I hated Legion Shadow but this iteration feels much more fluid imo. It's a bit wonky for AE and it kind of sucks having non-existent burst but that's kinda been Shadow's MO for the last 27,000 years so it could be much worse.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Honestly, Shadow plays just fine right now. The 8.1 refresh left the class in a pretty good spot. I hated Legion Shadow but this iteration feels much more fluid imo. It's a bit wonky for AE and it kind of sucks having non-existent burst but that's kinda been Shadow's MO for the last 27,000 years so it could be much worse.
    maybe it could be worse. maybe its a point of view thing. i am not convinced.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    maybe it could be worse. maybe its a point of view thing. i am not convinced.
    I mean, if you want to ignore an entire thread's worth of posts from people who are currently playing the spec so that you can make a very surface-level complaint about Blizzard's "non-existent class design team," that's the very definition of a "point of view thing."

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjapotato69 View Post
    No rework, only buffs + Battle of Dazar'Alor raid was made for shadow priests.
    The 8.1 buffs were extremely minor aswell. The main reason for Shadow being strong in BoDA, is that we have access to 6 traits, and that the entire raid is basically designed to make multidotters strong.

    Shadow has some of the very strongest class specific Azerite traits in the game, and scale extremely well off those. This was also the case during 8.0 btw, it just wasn't as obvious because we only had access to 2 (with the Uldir trait taking 1 spot).


    And no, we were never promised any actual "rework". Only small changes to talents and minor adjustments, which is exactly what we got.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
    Holyfury armory

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    And no, we were never promised any actual "rework". Only small changes to talents and minor adjustments, which is exactly what we got.
    Blizzard acknowledged that the class (and shaman DPS) was not where they wanted it to be when the expansion dropped, and said further changes would have to wait for 8.1. Expecting that to mean substantial rework was entirely reasonable.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by bicycle View Post
    Blizzard acknowledged that the class (and shaman DPS) was not where they wanted it to be when the expansion dropped, and said further changes would have to wait for 8.1. Expecting that to mean substantial rework was entirely reasonable.
    yep. it was clearly stated that these classes was kept aside because of running out of time, and that their class redesign pass will follow with first big patch. it was around mid june 2018 but i can not find it quickly. i just found ions statement that ele and sp is not talked cause of already stated facts, in a QnA of 14th of june 2018.

    in short: they promised changes they never brought.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I mean, if you want to ignore an entire thread's worth of posts from people who are currently playing the spec so that you can make a very surface-level complaint about Blizzard's "non-existent class design team," that's the very definition of a "point of view thing."

    the „whole thread“ (which is one page lol) doesnt look like every ppl here being happy about state of SP in every aspect.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjapotato69 View Post
    No rework, only buffs + Battle of Dazar'Alor raid was made for shadow priests.

    exactly this. high numbers keep ppls mouth closed. and as long as there isnt a huge outcry blizz will not invest money or effort. look at elemental. same there. buffed that high that he can do a lot of aoe dmg, so kiddies go fotm and the fact that the class is fun like shit and have fundamental problems is watered down to infinity.

    its all about money at blizz. and they will invest not a bit of it, if something isnt bad propaganda and bad for their image, or decreasing their MAUs in general, etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    The 8.1 buffs were extremely minor aswell. The main reason for Shadow being strong in BoDA, is that we have access to 6 traits, and that the entire raid is basically designed to make multidotters strong.

    Shadow has some of the very strongest class specific Azerite traits in the game, and scale extremely well off those. This was also the case during 8.0 btw, it just wasn't as obvious because we only had access to 2 (with the Uldir trait taking 1 spot).


    And no, we were never promised any actual "rework". Only small changes to talents and minor adjustments, which is exactly what we got.
    you should better check archives of around may - oct 2018 when you really believe what you stated at the end of your post, lol...

    they CLEARLY stated that they spare out shadow and elemental because of time running out and that their overhaul will happen in first big patch. they CLEARLY not talked about minor changes...

    if i had the time and do not give a fuck, i would search 1 or 2 hours and find you that big blue post. best thing i quickly find was the QnA panel where ion said that ele, enh and sp isnt talked about cause of latest satements.

    you could look at it here:

    https://de.wowhead.com/news=284967/l...on-hazzikostas

    play the video and the memtioned point is at minute 17:00. the statements before start around 15:00 minute.

    a few weeks or days before that video, they mentioned that time is running out for class overhauls and ele and sp are left out and done in first big patch. this is what ion is talking about here. but i couldnt find that blue post (it was clearly stated blue post) quickly.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2019-02-22 at 10:15 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •