I'm so doubtful about the nightborne

[Beloren]

The Zandalari have a far stronger horde loyalty and incentive.. you believe them when they wanna kill the Alliance.. the nightborne.. you are half like.. why are they even here or fighting, and the other half of the time you half expect them to be on the other side.

They are the only horde race I get that with.

Blizzard need to do something to sort their horde identity out. They have to decide what sort of allies they want them to be? The all in type or the periphery type. Maybe the reason they ahve'n't consolidated them in is because they plan to do something with them, but they should hurry up and do it.

I would much rather half the nightborne fully committed to the horde, or even a fraction of them, than this current state of affairs.. they have too many ties to the alliance.

With the blood elves, you have the thalassian vs night elf hate thing going on, this is what partially made the void elves possible on the alliance via the humans, as the high elves have been friendly. Secondly the blood elves have a human hate or distrust established, even phobia thanks to Arthas.. so you can understand that.

The nightborne - well Thalyssra in 7.0 and 7.1 is portrayed as decent person, as is her rebel group - and the story has the nightborne owing their lives, and the surviving of their city to the other Suramar kaldorei who are now in the alliance - and twice over. first in the wota, then again in Legion expansion. Then you do the quest and they have a boner for all thigns kaldorei - I guess cos they identitfy themselves in that vein - which at least the Tahlassian elves don't have - they are everything opposite to the kaldorei in kaldorei are night, they are day, kaldorei stars and moon, they are sun, kaldorei Elune, they are the Light, nightborne still feel very kaldorei - just arcane kaldorei.

Imo, they need to write a story that puts either all the nightborne, or some of the nightborne firmly in the horde either that OR, they go the peace route and write the nightborne as the bridge between the elven people - and use them to do something new.

[Rustedsaint]

Allied races was a mistake, especially using races that were helped by both fractions in legion.

[Beloren]

Allied races was a mistake, especially using races that were helped by both fractions in legion.

I don't think they were a mistake, it's just that the way they introduced them demanded more nuance than we got when they started picking sides. Fine we expect the highmountain to go with the Tauren fairly straightforward - it si the class hero that helps them right..

but the nightborne - this is the night elf sub-race, and they are helped by both factions, and a key and friendly part of the alliance specific group, with behaviour that matches them, if you're going tto take them to the horde fine, but you need more nuance. You can't do what you do for the Lightforged or Highmountain.

This is the problem, they needed to do better. With the high elves they had nuance, it made sense such a n event would tear the race apart, some sticking to their principals, some evolving and adapting to their new reality. - and so you have in interesting schism.

We should have had something similar with the nightborne based on their own story. In the campaign, some are carazy about their elated kaldorei roots and heritage, some don't seem to care at all and want to conquer the world and put all the miscreants and unworthy to the sword - basically some are of the tyrande/malfurion disposition and others of the Azshara disposition. They should have used that.

Even with the death of Elisande, it is unlikely every nightborne would the Thalyssra/tyrande/malfurion mindset, and if they made Elisande's echo survive, who'se to say her echoes couldn't be gathered to restore her or sometone else more conquest minded rise up.

So I guess my annoyance is not caring enough to do it decently.

[Nathasil]

So your definition of "being Horde" is "wanting to kill Alliance"....i would argue your premise is flawed and i would also argue that you are in for a rude awakening in patch 8.2 and up.

[Kwento]

Don’t worry, if they don’t get any significant role in Azshara content, you probably won’t hear from them anytime soon.

[Nerovar]

I always found it pretty disappointing because Suramar makes up a large chunk of Legion's story for both factions and it was at no point indicated that they'd swing to either side. It's almost as if the guys who made the Suramar story didn't really intend them to be allied races in the first place. It just comes out of nowhere and it's even more silly if you consider that Nightfallen (including Thalyssra) are cured by a Kaldorei druid. But I guess he's a neutral NPC so it doesn't count and they can go slaughter his people in the next race war.

Don’t worry, if they don’t get any significant role in Azshara content, you probably won’t hear from them anytime soon.

It's funny, isn't it? Blizzard storytelling is the most enjoyable when it doesn't exist in the game.

[StationaryHawk]

they have too many ties to the alliance.

Such as...?

I always found it pretty disappointing because Suramar makes up a large chunk of Legion's story for both factions and it was at no point indicated that they'd swing to either side. It's almost as if the guys who made the Suramar story didn't really intend them to be allied races in the first place. It just comes out of nowhere and it's even more silly if you consider that Nightfallen (including Thalyssra) are cured by a Kaldorei druid. But I guess he's a neutral NPC so it doesn't count and they can go slaughter his people in the next race war.

There's more than enough hints in how Tyrande and Liadrin regard the nightborne, and their interactions with them.

[Aucald]

The Nightborne chose the Horde when both the Alliance and the Horde came to their aid in Suramar - in that regard, I would say their connection to the Horde is more substantial than the Zandalari, who's aid the Horde needed and who had the implicit power in the deal (although with the Battle of Dazar'alor this equation has likely shifted). The Nightborne, having made their monumental choice, simultaneously made a powerful enemy in the now-hostile Alliance, giving them a pronounced thirst to prove themselves a loyal and able ally to the Horde.

I think their connection to the Horde is quite solid, at least for now; though there are signs that Sylvanas is testing that loyalty before it has been well and truly cemented with her actions in this war. But since this is true for many of the Horde's client-races, it's not really something you can lay at the door of just the Nightborne.

[Kwento]

It's funny, isn't it? Blizzard storytelling is the most enjoyable when it doesn't exist in the game.

Nuh, I just focus on Zuldazar. One story that is yet to disappoint.

[Powerogue]

I thought them showing up in that expedition in Zandalar with the blood elves was pretty great.

I do wish we'd see a bit more from their leaders though. I could easily see Thalyssra sheltering night elf refugees (they've already got some from Val'sharah) and getting in hot water with Sylvanas.

[ravenmoon]

I thought them showing up in that expedition in Zandalar with the blood elves was pretty great.

I do wish we'd see a bit more from their leaders though. I could easily see Thalyssra sheltering night elf refugees (they've already got some from Val'sharah) and getting in hot water with Sylvanas.

I agree, I think blizzard should really try a different dynamic with the night elves and nightborne. One that works towards healng the elven fracture. Rather than perpetuate the hate and conflict.

Nightborne from 7.0/1 quests are enamoured with their kaldorei heritage, blood elves hate it from previous expansions. However blood elves love highborne and nightborne kin, while highborne and nightborne love their kaldorei kin people.

Who says because they are in the horde they have to forget their origin, hate the good guys they loved, rather I think the nightborne should be stuck on the horde but regret it, and keep trying to make amends with the kaldorei.

I think the Darnassian Kaldorei who were a bit frosty because of the past, have cause to be even more frosty, but rather than use this to escalate conflict, blizzard should use this to show the nightborne as really noble people, trying to make amends with their kin and should let them eventually succeed

The horde should not like the nightborne constantly helping the kaldorei and pursuing relationships with them, the nightborne should again be like the adults in this relationship, firmly refusing to change, they know the horde needs them and can't afford to lose them but meanwhile knowing ultimately the conflict is silly, firmly believing elves should not only be above it, but be the bridge between the two factions and the hope of healing the division.

As such this becomes their primary race objective, they represent an equally ancient and wise night elven heritage like the kaldorei, but because they've been sheltered in the former kaldorei reality unlike the Darnassians , are able to 're centre the nobler and peaceful heart of the elves even in the hatred between the two factions.

Nightborne start winning kaldorei over, first their highborne, then druids, on the other side they start affecting the blood elves who also have a lot of hate for the Long vigil nightnelves, through the nightborne, more blood elves start genuinely desiring cross faction elven collaboration too. And we get a large faction of blood elves joining the nightborne in this, and reestablishing draenei ties, but we also have a faction headset against it, same with the night elves, where Maiev is the greatest opposes of this.

While nightborne players are free to kill and hate kaldorei, the race itself prefers to work with them despite being on opposite factions.

It is through this effort that druidism makes its way to the nightborne, and kaldorei arcana is strengthened, the priesthood of Elune operates across both.

Now their are nightborne who think the night elf should rule all, of these, some are only willing to cooperate with other elves, but some only with nightborne and kaldorei of highborne standing, this adds some nuance to the allied race.

Eventually, this leads to a place where the night elves and nightborne work together first in secret then in public to ensure the factions never spiral into war again, to ensure they are ready to face global threats and to ensure no Arthas or Garrosh type leader arises from amongst them.

Allies first start noticing there is a difference when kaldorei refuse to fight shal'dorei and shal'dorei refuse to harm kaldorei on the battlefield. The elves simply refuse. We will not murder our kind. They help their allies succeed, may restrain or counter some of the activities or spells the other does to help their friends, but they do not fight each other.

To bring this to head, blizzard need a powerful moment when the shal'dorei seriously help the Kaldorei, because so far, it is the kaldorei that have thrice saved their fellow Suramar kin.

I think this should be during or after 8.2, while the War of Thorns devastation is still going on, and the kaldorei most desperately need help and reprieve, the sort of help that none of their allies could afford to give or be willing to.

Blizzard should show the nobility of the night elves on the horde side via the nightborne. Saving the lives of good people is not treachery it is the duty of the wise and just.

Largely I'm just sick of the everyone on one side hating and being opposed to everyone on the other side. While conflict is st the heart of this series, it doesn't have to be so nslck and whire