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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    So you just magically assumed that he is "sick and fucked up" for no apparent reason. Oh wait. I forgot. He might be lefter leaning then you, and in your delusional psycho world, everyone lefter leaning than you is automatically lumped into "the left", which is comprised entirely of extreme-left-wing nutjobs. There is no scale. No divide. Just "the left".

    How about a news flash: there is no "the left". I mean, jesus fuck, a vast majority of people who vote "democrat" are probably closer to the middle or even over on the right side of the political spectrum. The only reason they didn't vote R is because the Republicans in general have constantly shifted their stance so far Right that they can barely even see the center line and those people just don't want to go that far right..... Are there "Rabid leftists" out there? Yes. Do they represent the entirety of "the left"? See above. They are a tiny fraction of a minority on the left leaning scale.

    And as for the Cov Cath kids? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that regardless of if you can or can not hear them being racist on the videos available, if someone says they were being racist little shits while at that protest, I am inclined to believe they were probably being racist little shits at the protest. I mean, it's not like they don't have a history of being racist little shits. But of course, these are the proud and shining examples of future core Republican values being hurled under the spotlight. So of course, the right will do everything in it's power to paint them as innocent little flowers......
    No, there is a reason. Supporting the notion that those kids deserved what happened to them is sick and fucked up. You do it yourself, at the end, and you use a tweet whose relevance is questionable at best to support it. The calls to violence were and remain sickening. The disgust has nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with tactics.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Foosha View Post
    He aint gonna reply cause he knows he's wrong. Major news outlets were reporting slander and libel, false facts and not corroborating sources. CNN has since redacted/deleted their shoddy journalism which I think is even worse... I cant find a lick of it online besides youtube commentaries. I atleast give props to the New York times for leaving the original article up, and then using an addendum to say "hey, we fucked up".
    Condemn the news agencies for their horrible reporting of this all you want, but the real bad guys here were the celebrities calling for the violence on these kids. The main kid in the video was doxxed and has been harrassed ever since thanks to this outrage mob. So, Do we blame the media for spreading it? I kind of think we do. However, this entire thing was a nonissue from the get go. Tim Pool posted a video saying that the original twitter account that started spreading the first viral video was a Russian account seeking to spread discord in this country. Whether that's true or not, the effect of it is apparent. People are still arguing that these kids did something wrong. It is so damn frustrating to get online and see people STILL calling these kids disrespectful and various other adverbs because people simply can't get off their high horse. It is childish to the extreme. People are even doing it in this thread. "You want to talk about this guy's service, what about Trump's?" People can't discuss the issues, we have to politicize EVERYTHING. The ONLY FUCKING ISSUE here is that someone lied repeatedly in order to incite an online lynch mob on a group of MINOR CHILDREN who did nothing wrong. And so many people online took the bait.

    So we have a fundamental breakdown. Let's count some of the shit that's gone wrong in the last week. The main issues I've been seeing are the following:

    1. Media covering the event completely mishandled. When full video was released (by the way at the same time as the clips) they took their sweet ass time to update coverage. Once the writing was on the wall, they had to adjust their reporting to fit the actual series of events that took place at the March. They put a man on TV to tell his story, with no vetting of his story and let him spin a web of lies that had more holes in it than a colander.
    2. Literally hundreds of tweets by people ranging from simply passing the information along (perpetuating the lies) to calling for the deaths of these kids and saying that someone should shoot up their high school. People have incited violence with their tweets, and then deleted them later. Fortunately many screenshots were taken of some of the worst ones to document it
    3. Shills for the left refuse to concede they were wrong. That's really all that needs to be said here.
    Quote Originally Posted by blobbydan View Post
    We're all doomed. Let these retards shuffle the chairs on the titanic. They can die in a safe space if they want to... Whatever. What a miserable joke this life is. I can't wait until it's all finally over and I can return to the sweet oblivion of the void.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathknightish View Post
    Never understood americans and their seething hatred for people who pretend to have been in the military.

    Cultural differences? Can someone explain this for me? Because over here, lying about how you've been in the military and people find out that you lied is no bigger deal than a regular lie. People will just think you are a lying mythomaniac, and go on with their day, but it seems that Americans want to literally lynch people lying about it.
    Stolen Valor. People who pretend like they've put their lives on the line for their country to court favors from the masses. It is insulting and belittling to those who have gone through that hell and survived.

    And no, we don't to lynch them. We want to embarrass and rebuke them. They are scum and should be treated as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Conservatives suddenly caring about military service after electing Cadet Bonespurs.
    Lieing about being in the military is a whole lot worse than using money to get out of having to go. And that was years ago, this man is making false claims about his military service right now.

    Entirely different scenarios.
    Last edited by Eldar45; 2019-01-23 at 10:14 AM.

  4. #164
    Even if he was a veteran , he came up to them, they just stood there.

    Nothing to see here, other than the boys had just been abused themselves by racist homophobes.

    Or the verified check marks on twitter calling for the death of kids.

    Or the media Lying.
    Power corrupts, unlimited power... is even more fun!

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    No, there is a reason. Supporting the notion that those kids deserved what happened to them is sick and fucked up. You do it yourself, at the end, and you use a tweet whose relevance is questionable at best to support it. The calls to violence were and remain sickening. The disgust has nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with tactics.
    I do what at the end? I made no calls to violence. I simply pointed out that when someone is accused of being a shit, and they have a MASSIVE history of being shits, then there is a good chance they probably were being a shit.

    And you obviously didn't even bother to click on the link, as it isn't "a tweet". It's a fucking wall of tweets extensively cataloguing the fact that Cov Cath is basically a breeding ground for people who are literally the target demographic of the MAGA hat.....

  6. #166
    Assuming he indeed made false claims about his military record, it doesn't change the nastiness of the behavior of the kids in the video.

    The two things are separate and happened independently of each other.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Conservatives suddenly caring about military service after electing Cadet Bonespurs.
    President Trump never mischaracterized his having not served Nice false equivalence though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathknightish View Post
    Never understood americans and their seething hatred for people who pretend to have been in the military.

    Cultural differences? Can someone explain this for me? Because over here, lying about how you've been in the military and people find out that you lied is no bigger deal than a regular lie. People will just think you are a lying mythomaniac, and go on with their day, but it seems that Americans want to literally lynch people lying about it.
    I admit we overdo the stolen valor bit, but the anger comes from the fact the military is so highly regarded in this country. Taking that regard unjustified really annoys people.

  8. #168
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    The guy who is putting this info out there is a former Navy SEAL who more or less professionally exposes people for stolen valor. Its not like he just randomly Googled the guy and picked a similar name and ran with it; he obviously has contacts that get him this information fast and accurately (hence how he could obtain the information during a government shutdown in less than one business day)... Not saying that means he can't be wrong, but he is literally an expert in this stuff and I can find no examples of him ever being wrong.
    Actually, because of the shutdown, those services are sad to be inaccurate and may not provide sources for weeks ... and yet, he got it in less than a week? I was looking something up and I was told it would be lengthy.

    Note: DD214 are typically stored with CIVILIAN branches of the government, including local government agencies. So having a military shortcut doesn't always work.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2019-01-23 at 11:47 AM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Assuming he indeed made false claims about his military record, it doesn't change the nastiness of the behavior of the kids in the video.

    The two things are separate and happened independently of each other.
    You’re correct, but if anything, this whole episode should teach you politics isn’t about logic, or truth. It’s about perceptions and confirming biases. One side is willing to destroy people’s lives over a complete lie just for a chance to make the President look bad. The other side profits nothing by holding back on undermining that narrative because of a logical fail.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Actually, because of the shutdown, those services are sad to be inaccurate and may not provide sources for weeks ... and yet, he got it in less than a week? I was looking something up and I was told it would be lengthy.

    We’ll all get to see eventually. Whatever side of the argument people fall on, it’s idiotic at this point to put out misinformation. People are fact checking this to death now. The best thing for all of us is to reserve judgment a little while and let the dust settle. I started out on the wrong side of this discussion because the video fooled me. I’m not interested in being fooled further.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    I do what at the end? I made no calls to violence. I simply pointed out that when someone is accused of being a shit, and they have a MASSIVE history of being shits, then there is a good chance they probably were being a shit.

    And you obviously didn't even bother to click on the link, as it isn't "a tweet". It's a fucking wall of tweets extensively cataloguing the fact that Cov Cath is basically a breeding ground for people who are literally the target demographic of the MAGA hat.....
    Make no calls for violence, but acting like what happened was reasonable based on... what, a wall of tweets then? Means that the outrageous things called for were appropriate? Based on no actual evidence of wrongdoing? Even if the kids are racist pieces of shit, that means they deserve violence? That's what the person you were replying to was condemning, as far as I could determine. You said, "So you just magically assumed that he is "sick and fucked up" for no apparent reason," but there was a reason, I read a person decrying calls to violence as sick and fucked up.

    I did click the link, and just read the initial tweet, one with 4h next to it. I think that means the tweet was 4 hours old? Always lots of haters out after the fact, it was hard to take seriously and look deeper. You deserve respect though, so I took a second, deeper look, and frankly I'm not impressed by the evidence as it stands. Looks like hastily cobbled together garbage. Quite possibly some substance there, but not worth my time to pick apart because a) too much fluffy bullshit to take seriously b) if it's true that the school is full of douche-filled hatemongers, and I'm inclined to believe that of anyone willing to wear those stupid hats, they don't deserve to have their lives torn apart over a nothing incident in which zero people were hurt until the internet got involved.

  11. #171
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thMountainMan View Post
    I admit we overdo the stolen valor bit, but the anger comes from the fact the military is so highly regarded in this country. Taking that regard unjustified really annoys people.
    Given people are claiming that Nathan Philips violated "Stolen valor" don't even understand it. Unless you are using false military service to get a financial gain, it isn't illegal. You have to intend to get something for it. Nathan is only using his service which he did have active duty time (so some people would consider him a veteran, but the my state wouldn't) to grant himself more credit ... it's not stolen valor, so people accusing him of it don't understand it.

    If you were to dress up in a uniform, go to the store, the store WITHOUT you asking gave you a discount also doesn't count as stolen value.

    People don't understand it isn't illegal to pretend you served in the military, it isn't even illegal to accept something because someone assumed you served in the military. It is only bad if you fake military service in intent of getting something tangible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thMountainMan View Post
    We’ll all get to see eventually. Whatever side of the argument people fall on, it’s idiotic at this point to put out misinformation. People are fact checking this to death now. The best thing for all of us is to reserve judgment a little while and let the dust settle. I started out on the wrong side of this discussion because the video fooled me. I’m not interested in being fooled further.
    The issue is that people assume just because one side is worse means that the other side is guiltless ... that's not how the real world works. People are digging up things on both sides of the issue. Both on the school's and Native Americans. Honestly, I first saw the video ... I went both are wrong. More evidence, still think both are wrong.

    Yes, the Native American based on evidence appears more wrong, but how does that stop the kid who was clearly doing nothing to deescalate the situation and appeared in the video to go from "What's going on?" to "I dare you." These were not blocked off areas for individual protest, meaning just because the Native American walked up to him doesn't mean he is in his right to "hold his ground."

    Both are wrong, and both sides are using the other side's wrongness to justified in the divide. We cannot agree that what happened was wrong all around and we need to actually have a discussion.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2019-01-23 at 12:17 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Obama never claimed to be in the military. Obama never dodged a draft either. Whether or not he would have served was never put to the test.
    Did Trump claim to be a veteran?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathknightish View Post
    Never understood americans and their seething hatred for people who pretend to have been in the military.
    The Stolen Valor Act of 2013 (Pub.L. 113–12; H.R. 258) is a United States federal law that was passed by the 113th United States Congress. The law amends the federal criminal code to make it a crime for a person to fraudulently claim having received a valor award specified in the Act, with the intention of obtaining money, property, or other tangible benefit by convincing another that he or she received the award.

    The current federal law is a revised version of a previous statute struck down by the Supreme Court of the United States in United States v. Alvarez. In Alvarez the Supreme Court ruled the arrest and prosecution of a citizen for wearing unearned military awards, who did so without criminal intent, violates their constitutional right to freedom of speech.

  13. #173
    It's funny how many people will forgive lying about serving after giving Trump deserved shit for being a draft dodger. Almost like people are massive hypocrites.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    It's funny how many people will forgive lying about serving after giving Trump deserved shit for being a draft dodger. Almost like people are massive hypocrites.
    Lying about serving is totally different than a Dr. saying you can't serve. Not to mention this Native American has been an activist and was even in a Skrillex video.

  15. #175
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Lying about serving is totally different than a Dr. saying you can't serve. Not to mention this Native American has been an activist and was even in a Skrillex video.
    Except he didn't lie about serving ... he lied about his service ... which is totally different. I deal with people who claim to be veterans with similar service to Philips. They aren't lying because they feel they are veterans. I have to explain that they aren't for the purposes of the services of where I work.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Except he didn't lie about serving ... he lied about his service ... which is totally different. I deal with people who claim to be veterans with similar service to Philips. They aren't lying because they feel they are veterans. I have to explain that they aren't for the purposes of the services of where I work.
    Fair enough he lied about being a recon ranger and his wording on his Vietnam service was specific. He used the term "Vietnam TIMES Veteran". He did serve as an electrician and never made it above private rank nor did he ever leave American soil. He also went AWOL several times.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Fair enough he lied about being a recon ranger and his wording on his Vietnam service was specific. He used the term "Vietnam TIMES Veteran". He did serve as an electrician and never made it above private rank nor did he ever leave American soil. He also went AWOL several times.
    ya, this is what the haters dont want to see. they keep pushing new "facts/nonfacts" to change the conversation. the guys a scumbag, who sought out to cause problems, and the media ran with it as did many famous people and i hope these kids win a zillion dollars from them for what was done. the left has more hate than the right ever did, and it shows plain and simple. move on. just waiting for the nxt stupid media meltdown to happen that will be proven wrong.. used to be they vetted stories before they ran with them. and twitter/FB has not helped.. the crazys will post when they get a anything they can spin .. sad

  18. #178
    These Hebrew Israelites have effectively trolled the entire nation several times over and more or less got away scot-free while everyone is shitting on the two groups they were shitting on.

  19. #179
    I love watching those stolen valor vids, bunch of idiots trying to collect on those free meals and discounts lmao, go to war then come back and get your free meal.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Daara View Post
    I've posed this question to several people and no one has answered. If a Black man or woman wears a MAGA hat, are they racist?
    Are they discriminating others based on their race? If so, yes, they are.

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